MysticCat, to answer as best I can, a college student has constitutional rights. Those rights have to be upheld by a state school. Now, state schools will try not to uphold those rights if they can get away with it. However, generally speaking a national organization can help a student group leverage for their constitutional rights (we are speaking here about the right to association, which is covered as an extension to the first amendment). Some campuses try to stifle expansion or Greek organizations altogether. That is why I am suggesting to the student to put together an interest group, try to find national backing and then go to the campus and see what they say.

Eh. If a school is not open for expansion and your organization still tries to gather an interest group to form a chapter, chances are the Greek Life Director will be pretty POed that you did not follow expansion protocol. The chapter would be considered an off campus group, not sanctioned by the school (which raises red flags for PNMs). I'm not sure what national organization would want to start a combative relationship with the school from the very beginning, and expect to thrive.

When and if the school does open for expansion, being on the Greek Life Director's shit list is not in your group's best interest.

taudelt, I'm a lawyer and I'm familiar with First Amendment law. And I still say go to the school first. (BTW, the right of association doesn't mean the school has to recognize a GLO. At best, it means the school can't take action against a student for joining an unrecognized organization.)

But read my post again: That wasn't what I was confused about. You said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by taudelt1910 (Post 2102012) The school may or may not be open to Greek Life. If they are a state school, even if they aren't open to Greek Life, that doesn't mean that you cannot, in the end, put a chapter on the campus.

(Emphasis added.) naraht disagreed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by naraht (Post 2102037) I would be very surprised if what is bolded above is true . . . .

He included examples of state schools where he thought that what you said wouldn't hold true.

You then responded:
(Emphasis added)

So, in one place you say you're talking about schools that don't have Greek life, but then when challenged you say you were talking about schools that do have Greek life. Hence, my confusion.

Really? :eek:

Anyway, some of us have worked with colleges and universities to bring Greek Life. My experiences tell me something that I knew before I had the firsthand experiences: Go through the school FIRST.

Our chapter does not allow new members to wear letters of any sort. Along with the near by chapters. Don't know if this is just what we do or Kappa HQ rule.

Pardon me but how could you not know this?

Delta chapters have chapter guidelines that are informal chapter policies and practices (i.e. my chapter is one of many chapters that had certain paraphernalia protocol in addition to Delta's protocol); and chapter policies and practices that adhere to university guidelines because some university guidelines supersede some Delta guidelines. But, first and foremost we have to know what Delta's national guidelines are. We have to know whether our chapter's policies and protocol adhere to Delta's policies and protocol. We also have to know whether our policies and protocol are just a chapter thing (and other chapters) or mandated by Delta.

Despite my claim that I wouldn't look up our national bylaws, standing rules, etc., I did. I was unable to find anything as far as Kappa's national rules regarding wearing letters. The only restriction that I could find regarding wearing anything is the badge is allowed to be worn by initiated members only. I think this is a chapter to chapter thing, but I'm open to someone who really knows our rules back and forth to correct me. I openly admit that I don't know the rules as well as I should, but I do know where to find them and how to use an index. :)

To my original point in agreeing with 33girl, I also think that this has become more prevalent among NPC groups since pledges became new members and had a shorter amount of time preceding initiation. I don't know when Mevara was initiated, but if it was during this century, her road to initiation was definitely different than mine.

DrPhil, I hope this isn't your first time at the "but it MUST be national policy since my chapter does it" rodeo. We have that all the time on here (see the drinking in letters threads, all 5289 of them).

As far as taudelt talking about state schools - I know where he is going, but the fact of the matter is, if the state school decides they want to be dickheads about something like that, the students don't always have the money or time or (the most important) want to forfeit their career, to fight it. My state owned alma mater basically forced a fraternity (that was recognized and supported by their national) to close. The guys in it didn't want to resign, but they were told if they didn't, they'd be suspended from school. These are students of...I wouldn't say humble means, but not rich enough to get a superlawywer to clean things up. They're also ed majors who would have a hard time explaining to a school/prospective employer why their college expelled them.

In other words, yes what you're saying is true, but unfortunately it is often not real life. The best thing to do is to go to the school first and tell them you want to start a fraternity/Greek life, for the RIGHT reasons.

LOL, no it isn't. I was moreso interested in chapters and active members (collegiate and alumnae) not knowing what their NHQ mandates which goes beyond chapters wanting their way to be the only way. They have access to that information if they want to know.

Deltas around the world go around trying to correct Sorors, only to be told "I respect how your chapter does things...or your personal opinion as a Soror...but that isn't mandated by Delta." As collegiates and alumnae Sorors, we are encouraged to know what Delta NHQ mandates so that we will know that common practices among Sorors (even if most chapters do it that way) are not "Delta practices." That doesn't stop Sorors from forgetting that what we eat doesn't make other Sorors defecate but we chalk that up to Sorors being stuck in their ways rather than saying "I don't know whether this is just my chapter or Delta, as a whole." That justification is frowned upon because it implies that there is no access to, or no interest in, the information from NHQ. That's all. :)

I think that all goes back to the fact that (for the most part, I'm sure there are some exceptions out there) your members join DELTA, rather than joining A CHAPTER of Delta. (Applies to any NPHC, actually.)

I apologize. I did not know that many NPC collegiate members tend not to have access to their GLO's policies and procedures. Back to my lane. I appreciate your patience. :)

Why are you apologizing? (Or are you being sarcastic) I meant that I think NPHC members do a lot better job of seeing things from a national organizational viewpoint, on the whole, not just this particular thing.

The policies are all there for women to access, many women just assume (although I'd think this would be hard to do in this day & age) that what your chapter does = what every chapter does. This came up with us recently with the new official mascot. MANY sisters thought that Raggedy Ann had been our official national mascot and were up in arms that she was being kicked to the curb. The fact of the matter is that RA was never official, just widely used. (If she'd been official we would have had all sorts of copyright usage issues.) It wasn't just the older alumnae though...it was women who have access to the internet, have had access throughout their college careers, and could see that there were quite a few chapters where RA wasn't even mentioned.

Not sarcastic but overly polite as I swerve in NPC lane.

That's really interesting to me and I don't assume that it is another one of those "difference between NPC and NPHC" things. Generally speaking, Sorors/chapters sometimes teach younger Sorors things that are not official. Younger Sorors assume that it is all official until they read Delta documents, meet Sorors from other chapters, attend official Delta meetings, etc. That reality check is inevitable and I advise Sorors to seek that reality check because ignorance of Delta does not excuse you from the wrath of Delta. :)

(What was this thread about?)

I think that your members are far more apt to get that reality check than our members. I also think that your members are far more apt (although if I'm giving too much credit, tell me LOL) to be thankful for that reality check than our members.

I'm not talking about GC NPC and NIC regulars who tend to be more up on this sort of thing, just because they're more interested in this sort of thing. I'm talking about the average garden variety member who will live out their days in blissful oblivion, thinking that no pledge EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THEIR SORORITY EVER EVER wore stitched letters before initiation.

Back to the topic of university recognition: it's always been my viewpoint to try to establish a cooperative relationship before attempting something that may cause friction.

When my chapter established itself on my campus, national headquarters had a nice chat with the (then) Director of Greek Life. He informed them about the current situation of the campus, the likelihood of a successful colonization (considering the campus environment), and invited a colonization. When they sent a consultant down here to start an interest group, the university hooked him up with access to the mailing lists and facilities.

Contrast this to another group that tried to recolonize completely behind the scenes, even though they were entitled to do so. The administration was contacting and investigating any student with information (including me, since I had a few connections to those involved) to build a file on them. They got put on a public blacklist that specifically warned students not to join the organization. Additionally, there were plans in the council to do everything it can to derail the recolonization, including changes to the constitution and bylaws. All of this happened because it was determined that their non-cooperative nature would cause problems in the future. Thankfully, they eventually realized the issues of the resistance, noticed the benefits of cooperation, and cooperated afterwards.

The university is a very good resource. Use it to your advantage. It can make things very hard if you don't.