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-   -   He, she or it? Family keeps baby's gender a secret (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=119970)

TonyB06 05-26-2011 08:48 AM
WTH?? ...bad idea.

((Storm and siblings)) Let's hope yall don't need to spend too much time on the counselors's couch, that appears to be clearly likely in yall's future.

parents. need. a. clue. correction. ...several. clues.

preciousjeni 05-26-2011 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2058760)
That's how some families have done it. You know that it can be a constant struggle whether you tell people the biological sex or not.

In fact, gender can be a struggle even when people are socialized with traditional gender norms. Kids can notice early in their lives that they don't fit them; or they can discover later in life that they never felt "like a boy/man." And that doesn't just apply to children who are considered "dual gendered" or transgendered. "Normal" children also experience gender constrast and gender battles.
For me, the bottom line is that I want my (future) children to have the courage to be who they are. That means that my home needs to be a haven of support. I grew up as a "tomboy," which now I'm realizing is really just a nice way of saying your girl kid acts too much like a boy.

I became a woman who has turned the Christian Haustafel on its ear in my own marriage. I find that my lifestyle is looked upon unfavorable by a lot of women who have more traditional marriages. I'm "lazy," even though the reality is that I'm utilizing my strengths to the benefit of my family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherKD (Post 2058762)
One of the biggest problems I have with the family is that they are letting their 5-year-old decide whether or not he wants to have any sort of education at this point. 5-year-olds aren't equipped to make lots of sorts of decisions, and going to school or even having some sort of homeschooling lessons is not high on many's agendas. What happens next year or the year after? If he still doesn't want to have any schooling, will the parents really make him? Seems like a lack of parental responsibility to me.

Same goes with what the kids eat. Sure, they need protein and vitamins and nutritious stuff to make them healthy and strong, but he wants to eat Fruit Roll-Ups all day, fine with me!

Between letting their kids pick out what they want to wear (which, by the way, I'm fine with), deciding what they want to do day in and day out, and what they want to eat, it doesn't sound like these parents are doing much of anything.
I agree with you to an extent. However, I imagine that, with this freedom comes responsibility. At least I hope so. It would for me. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this course of action were to lead to an earlier adulthood and more confidence in the children.

AnotherKD 05-26-2011 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by preciousjeni (Post 2058776)
I agree with you to an extent. However, I imagine that, with this freedom comes responsibility. At least I hope so. It would for me. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this course of action were to lead to an earlier adulthood and more confidence in the children.
Well, yes, but responsibility in a toddler/kindergartener is more like if they have the wherewithal to pick up their toys and let their parents know when they have to go to the bathroom so they don't continue to be in diapers or pull-ups until they're 7 years old. I think that the responsibility to choose what is best for the child as far as development growth is concerned (food, education, etc) should at least be seriously encouraged by the parents, but I don't see that happening here at all.

SWTXBelle 05-26-2011 09:51 AM
In my limited experience, a child is going to express him/herself no matter what - yes, when they are infants you as a parent can dress them how you will, but once they turn 2/3 they will express strong opinions about dress, toys, food, etc. I think good parenting is about being attuned to the child, and encouraging him/her to look beyond stereotypes. You can do that without playing coy with a child's gender. Children need a base from which to start - be it language, their names, clothing, nutrition, religion, etc. It's asking too much, IMHO, to make a 5 year old decide. As they mature they will, as numerous examples show, come to their own conclusions about gender which may or may not coincide with their parents' or society's opinions.

DrPhil 05-26-2011 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by preciousjeni (Post 2058776)
For me, the bottom line is that I want my (future) children to have the courage to be who they are. That means that my home needs to be a haven of support. I grew up as a "tomboy," which now I'm realizing is really just a nice way of saying your girl kid acts too much like a boy.
Yeah and I used to brag about being a tomboy until I became a young adult and said "wait...wtf am I calling myself a tomboy for and bragging about it?!" I was buying into the gender hype.

Quote:
Originally Posted by preciousjeni (Post 2058776)
I became a woman who has turned the Christian Haustafel on its ear in my own marriage. I find that my lifestyle is looked upon unfavorable by a lot of women who have more traditional marriages. I'm "lazy," even though the reality is that I'm utilizing my strengths to the benefit of my family.
I can relate. :) I'd love to read more about this if you wrote a book about your "story."

agzg 05-26-2011 10:01 AM
My only issue with this is that by not making it about gender and then going to the news then aren't they inadvertently making it all about gender?

DrPhil 05-26-2011 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2058784)
My only issue with this is that by not making it about gender and then going to the news then aren't they inadvertently making it all about gender?
Yes. I think they are smart enough know that trying to hide gender is just as deliberate and still makes it about gender. Afterall, the family still talks about gender.

knight_shadow 05-26-2011 10:11 AM
Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but what about the other 2 children? What makes this one different from the other 2?

If the parents are trying to make a statement, why wasn't this done from the get-go?

BluPhire 05-26-2011 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2058759)
:)

Referendum or not, I was only replying to your post. In the context in which we were typing, you ended with "that's life...just pray God gives kids strong parents who will try to teach them how to handle this gender stuff." That implies that people shouldn't wrestle with this too much because God and strong parenting will figure it all out. While I firmly believe in God and strong parenting as a foundation, I do not believe in concluding such discussions with God and strong parenting as though it solves and silences the issue. That happens all the time when people discuss such topics, hence my response.

But that's the whole point.

My response when I invoked God was in response to this portion.

Quote:
ETA: Regardless of the statement that the parents are making, I really hope these children aren't emotionally and mentally harmed by any of this. Children are mentally and emotionally negatively (and positively) impacted by gender everyday.
Which is why I say I think you took my words a little further than they were suppose to.

But that's the beauty of the internet, unless we are face to face, normal conversations that would have been picked up on do not always translate over the interwebs, unless you carefully type out every aspect of what you are referring to. As for your belief in not concluding with God, I would agree if we were having a debate on what defines a strong parent. That was just conversation.

AGDee 05-26-2011 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2058787)
Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but what about the other 2 children? What makes this one different from the other 2?

If the parents are trying to make a statement, why wasn't this done from the get-go?
It's making me assume that Storm is a girl. That's what is different...lol. They are boys. Wouldn't that be a hoot if that were true? Makes it seem like they are ashamed of a girl.

There are ways to give children choices WITHIN parameters that a parent sets. I did not let my daughter wear whatever she wanted when she was 2/3 because she didn't always understand that the weather or the occasion dictates what is appropriate to wear. I did have her help me shop for her own clothes and I did offer her the choice of two outfits that met the right weather/formality. She wasn't wearing sweat pants to a wedding and she wasn't wearing shorts and a tank top in the middle of winter.

If kids were capable of making all of their own decisions, they would be adults.

Munchkin03 05-26-2011 12:34 PM
The first time I read this, in a Yahoo! article, I thought that it was pretty cool. They weren't raising their children based on others' expectations of what boys and girls should do--granted, they're doing it in an extreme manner.

Then I read the Toronto Star article, that discussed more about them, and they just struck me as super tripped out on themselves. They kind of reminded me of LN, the character played by Maggie Gyllenhaal in "Away We Go." They also reminded me of people I went to college with who were super annoying.

If anything, the "no-schooling" bothers me more than the genderless upbringing. Kids need the social structure of school...even progressive programs like Waldorf and Montessori still have some structure!

KSUViolet06 05-26-2011 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 2058814)
If anything, the "no-schooling" bothers me more than the genderless upbringing. Kids need the social structure of school...even progressive programs like Waldorf and Montessori still have some structure!
I agree. I opened up a huge can of worms once with some pro-homeschooling people over this once. I don't think that homeschool is devil or anything, just that some people do it with the goal of isolating their kids socially (ex: saying things like "I don't want him/her to be influenced by other kids at school.")

DrPhil 05-26-2011 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluPhire (Post 2058791)
But that's the whole point.

My response when I invoked God was in response to this portion.
LOL. I know what it was in response to. My response to your response remains. :) I also know that God and strong parenting can buffer some of the effects of that other stuff. :)

PiKA2001 05-26-2011 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2058824)
some people do it with the goal of isolating their kids socially (ex: saying things like "I don't want him/her to be influenced by other kids at school.")
That's another thing-

I was wondering if these kids interact socially with other kids and I'm willing to bet the answer is NO.

AnotherKD 05-26-2011 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiKA2001 (Post 2058827)
That's another thing-

I was wondering if these kids interact socially with other kids and I'm willing to bet the answer is NO.
I vaguely remember the story (it's not coming up on my computer now) about the kids trying to play with others, but the others didn't want to play with a "girl-boy" or something like that. Instead of trying to teach the other kids tolerance, the parents would just take their different-looking kid away. Same with when they wanted to buy that boa for the one boy- when the person at the counter questioned the purchase, they just left. So it seems like the parents are setting these kids up for failure by a lot of what they are doing and how they are handling (or not handling) hurdles that will inevitably come up.


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