Fraternity expansions are completely different animals. You need to step the fuck out of this lane before Barbie drives her pink semi rig through it.

For the record, local GLOs aren't the only GLOs that don't need as many as 20 interests-turned-applicants to charter a chapter. Some NPHC orgs don't require as many as 20 interests-turned-applicants.

Or they could give up out of frustration and weariness at trying to reach unattainable goals. Or their reputation takes a further hit because they try to do too much too quickly and fail.

I don't know about Daemon, but on many similar campuses Greek life is barely tolerated at best. They may have all they can handle just to double their numbers, particularly if what reputation they have has taken a major hit this past year. A realistic, workable and successful plan of action has to take into account the specific culture of the campus involved and of the Greek community involved.

For my money, I'd rather recruit five good, solid members in one semester than 20 warm bodies, half of whom you say will fall away in the first summer. The last thing they need is more people who aren't dedicated and won't hang on.

First of all... Unless I'm mistaken, at no time other than examples have I mentioned fraternity expansion. I said national GLO expansion. AND, when I said it, I ONLY said there are SOME ASPECTS of that process helpful to this situation - specifically, the initial blitz recruiting methods.

In no other way does anything I've said have anything to do with any type of greek org, be it NIC, NPC, NPHC, local, co-ed, or freakin green martians. This is broad organizational dynamics.

Second... I don't think it's possible to recruit 5 "solid members." No matter what their capabilities or what they say, there is not depth of dedication. They aren't invested by having been around, & haven't come through a training process with an established org under functional leadership that produces religious commitment. So, no matter who or how many people you recruit, a big chunk of them will not be around by Aug.

The people that are committed... they have a tremendous amount of work ahead to get this group to stand-alone self-sustaining, refocused on their purpose, and doing something in the direction of their mission. Whatever "good members" you do get, you're going to burn them out fast because there's just not enough people to do the work.

I'm not saying 20 because most national GLOs target that number as an initial foundation, and they don't target that number because everybody's doin it. I'm saying that number because it's about the minimum that can endure the attrition and do the work while still recruiting fresh meat to the grinder.

Yes, setting a higher goal is formidable. The task of refloating this org is a hundred times harder. The odds against this org are very very steep already. I don't think the pressure of recruiting 20 versus 5 people makes a whole lot of difference in that equation. If they aren't all in against the odds, they're already done.

You didn't have to say fraternities because NPC does NOT start out that way. We don't get a interest group of 20 or so women to start our new chapters. You might want to check out the expansion threads around here. NPC chapters generally start out with a formal recruitment that targets women of all ages to begin a chapter at about "Chapter Average." This works for NPC because of the rules that govern NPC. We don't go around advocating our methods to others BECAUSE we know that the playing field is different for other groups.

You're using national GLO expansion as your basis here. These are not national GLOs.

Except the assumptions you're making are based on national GLOs. (And specifically the type YOU are used to.)

This is not necessarily true. Entire NPHC chapters may consist of 5 people. IFC fraternities can also be smaller and not dying. Your perception is again, based on a specific type of national model. Five solid members means five solid members.

Again, you're only going to burn them out if a) you insist on recruiting 20 people or b) you're assuming the level of workload of a specific type of national chapter. What exactly is going to cause burnout?

And this is why we're saying you've got it wrong here. This is not a national GLO it does not have the work of a national GLO there doesn't have to be a meat grinder process. (And yes, national GLOs frequently do target a number based on what everyone else is doing). Additionally this is NOT the number a typical NPC sorority looks for and NPHC/MCGLO orgs aren't even on your radar. It's pretty obvious you're basing this on your experience with national fraternities at the school(s) you're familiar with.

It's not about whether it's formidable or not.

Just in case you didn't know "Stay in your lane" means you're giving advice that's inappropriate to the situation. All of us, as greeks, are generally capable of providing general advice to other greeks or people who want to be greek. But sometimes we're inexperienced in the ways of other organizations. In those cases we're told to 'stay in our lane' or sometimes 'shut up.' It's not personal, but it means you're providing BAD ADVICE. Instead of insisting how right your advice actually is, how about you take a step back and think that maybe, just maybe, people with experience working with small local organizations might know what the hell they're talking about? And that people who have been in sororities know better than you how many people a sorority expansion looks for?

This is not about broad organizational dynamics and even freakin green martians see that point by now. The problem with being opinionated-regardless-of-anything-else is that you're opinionated-regardless-of-anything-else. I don't care whether you curb that for GC because you make for good entertainment. I just hope you know the difference in real life.

No.

More importantly, smart people don't really come to Greekchat for advice. The OP's organization can figure this out on their own with or without the opinions of GCers. If they can't then that's also their problem.

I'm obviously in need of a new sig and this just might be it.

At my old school 20 was considered a large fraternity. Most of the, hovered around 10-15. It worked fine for them. IF the people that are being recruited are quality, attrition isn't as big as an issue as you seem to assume.

I think setting goals like 20, more than 20, 15, etc is weak because it binds you to those goals. If you get 8 pledges but you wanted 20 you're discounting those new guys. Those 8 could totally change the chapter and make it better, yet you're upset about not having 20.