I don't remember. Anything's possible.

I hear ya. As with all other social, political and economic topics, this is tough and there are no quick and fool proof solutions that will be fully supported and fully effective.

I rather agree, but it was the new guy who flipped out and really brought amnesty into this discussion in the first place.

I wonder though, with the number of illegal immigrants working under false SSNs and paying into the system with no way to withdraw from it - are we talking a net drain on resources or not? And how big is that actual drain? It's probably impossible to know, but it seems few people actually include what they put into the system as well as what they take out.
I agree that it's a lot about wages, however migrant workers are different from illegal immigrants. Unless I'm behind it's still possible to work here temporarily for the harvest season as a migrant worker and return home each year.

I do think that there's something also to be said about wanting cheap produce and products. If we're only willing to pay X for orange juice, they'll only pay Y. If they start paying Y+Z for workers, orange juice will cost more than X.

/solve for Y

That's because so many Americans try to live beyond their means. And yes, there are a LOT of jobs that many refuse to take due to the wages...been to your local fast food joint lately? Seen any changes? Not just in racial make up but age range of those working the counter?? Not teens anymore.

Listen bitch, I pay more taxes in one month then you probably do all year, and since I've yet to breed I don't get a penny of it back. If you're so worried about the cost of health care I suggest you get a job with a better health insurance plan.

You think you can live on a minimum wage job? Or even two minimum wage jobs? Good luck.

Big word seem hard for you.

You. Are. A. Moron.

Apparently one who has the word amnesty flashing over his eyes so that he can't see anything else and it makes him go :mad::mad::mad: *whargarble*

We had an amnesty in the late 80s. It was supposed to be a One time only fix all for the illegal immigrant problem. 20 years later we have 18-20 million illegals living here, hence the contention people have over the idea of another amnesty.

To be clear, that phrase didn't come from my post.

It's funny because I was going to express my hatred for that phrase, which has been used against Blacks for decades, but I decided to spare GC of my soapbox.

Illegal immigrants (and many nonwhite legal immigrants from across the globe) are getting paid wages that feed capitalism. Minimum input and maximum output. Illegal immigrant populations are perfect targets for low wage and menial labor because their immigrant status shapes their rights and perceptions of their opportunities. I'll end my soapbox there.

Oh...I agree with you Drole...but some of these jobs that are low paying that American's won't take, immigrants have taken and somehow stretched that money because they aren't pressed about trying to 'be like the jones'.

Not saying that you have to live 'well' , but I do think for some this may be a lesser of 2 evils...not to mention you have some people that actually pool their resources together to get by...most of them are doing what we try to do by ourselves. :D

Another small point you brought up...the issue with social security...I am thinking...and correct me if I am wrong...but with at least an SSN, you can probably take a change and get an above minimum wage job and not have to worry too much about working under the table....til you get caught.

Minimum wage isn't under the table though, it's absolutely unlivable. You need job skills to get a job over the table, and most Mexican immigrants are not highly educated.

There's a reason why there's a stereotype of illegal immigrants living in large numbers within a tiny apartment or home. Pooling money make things possible. Also manual labor CAN pay fairly well instead of paying under minimum, some employers will just pay under the fair wage instead. Still a rip off.

It's possible to squeak by if you have 2 minimum wage jobs and a shitty apartment and just you and your spouse. Varies based on where you live, but you pretty much need some sort of assistance/charity to do more than that. (Not to mention ER bills if you get sick/hurt.)

I actually recommend the episode of 30 days on this issue.

and boom goes the dynamite.

Hey clown, it doesn't take a genius to figure you out.

Low post count in this type of thread...c'mon son.

Step your game up.

Goticha...wasn't trying to combine mw and under the table...just adding it in to the point in general.

Amnesty is not intended to solve problems in and of itself. Problems are solved through a combination of efforts over long periods of time. People are looking for quick fixes that don't exist.

Don't fret, your proposed solutions also suck in and of themselves. ;) It's a Sucky Solutions Party.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rS79WUQ7yQ.../Picture+3.png

Yeah I understand.

LOL. This was both funny and dumb.

I'm apathetic towards amnesty. The pros and cons should be highlighted and implementing it should not be presented and interpreted as a sure fix to the decades-worth of social issues.