Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1901700)

*standing ovation*

I know that this is slightly off topic, and maybe it needs to be a spin-off, but I firmly believe in bilingual education rather than ESL/ELL programs. Primarily because I've never met an ESL teacher who actually spoke Spanish fluently.

I mean.... yes, the kids are in America, but it's so much better for them if they learn to read and write in Spanish and English. One thing I encountered with several immigrant families when I was a teacher is that just because a school system translates documents into Spanish for families doesn't mean they're actually literate in Spanish. Ya dig? I think these students are poised to have a gift of fluency in both English and Spanish if we cultivate it.

I don't know.

And I don't know how Rhode Island exploded with Spanish speaking immigrants any more than DC did. I am a minority in what was once an all-black neighborhood.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi (Post 1901699)

Hmm where to start on my comments....

Someone mentioned the teachers wanting a higher salary and that they shouldn't even be asking for it in this economy. No offense, but are you effin kidding me! So just because I'm a teacher and the economy sucks, I should demand the respect and pay I deserve for my profession? I don't think so. Until you have stepped into the shoes of a teacher, you don't understand what teacher has to put up with. You may think you do because you have friends or family members who are teachers, but you will never truly understand until you've walked a mile in our shoes.

In today's society and because of NCLB teachers are BLAMED for EVERYTHING. It's OUR FAULT that the kids test scores suck. It's OUR FAULT that their grades suck. It's OUR FAULT that the kids don't graduate. It's OUR FAULT that the kids don't speak English. No offense, but when the hell did all these problems (and thensome) because my fault as a teacher?

I've taught in low-income, predominately Hispanic (like 80%) and of that 80% Hispanic, I would say 50-60% are ESL students. I CANNOT make a child learn English. I CANNOT force the parents to learn English and therefore help their child. I CANNOT make the parents actually give a crap about their child's education. I can only do so much!!!!!

When did it become the teachers fault for everything?

When is some of the responsibility going to fall on the student and the parents? I'm guessing when hell freezes over. We live in a society were absolutely no blame falls onto the student. We live in a society where personal responsibility isn't taught and accepted.

As for the firing of all the teachers, it's not going to fix anything. The superintendent and the board are stupid as hell if they think that getting all new teachers will "magically fix" the problem. The district obviously has many problems, but a whole new staff isn't going to fix it. In fact, I'd bet my bottom dollar that if the district decides to fire them all, that their test scores will plummet next year.

Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1901897)

This makes sense if your basic population is made up of Spanish or English speakers, but depending on where you are, ELL/ESL could be supporting kids speaking a bunch of different languages.

And you're right that one of the big problems particularly with older kids is that they never really had high levels of literacy in their first language.

The downside of doing bilingual ed seems to be in the actual practice, as it frequently is implemented. (Or so I've heard/read) Instead of building skills in both, they seems to stay kind of weak and the program ends up being kind of a track to nowhere. (Not that it would have to be, and I'm sure it's not everywhere.)

Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1901897)

This makes sense if your basic population is made up of Spanish or English speakers, but depending on where you are, ELL/ESL could be supporting kids speaking a bunch of different languages.

Originally Posted by s1lvar (Post 1902816)

70% of blacks are born out of wedlock.

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 1905579)

Not to take a dump on the thread, but while a student's performance surely cannot be assigned wholly to one specific teacher, a student that performs terribly can probably be used as an indictment of the student's education as a whole, no?

And that education is primarily provided by three sources: teachers/class work, friend groups/experiences, and parents/self-directed learning. My understanding is not 100% on the bleeding edge, but I believe that learning in youths is generally considered to be implemented/affected in that order, as well.

So this logic seems pretty clear to me: when entire districts suck, the teachers and administrators (who seem to somehow avoid responsibility even though they are 'management' in this instance, which is baffling) are likely in large part to blame, no? After all, it is the one consistent in our triumvirate model of learning, across the board.

I get why teachers hate NCLB, and I get that teachers are woefully underpaid in many parts of the country, and I get that the job is exceptionally hard and takes a strong toll. I just don't get this constant shifting of blame, and why outside-the-box tactics get shouted down, even by teachers who hate the 'box' (system) anyway.