WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Muslim family removed from an airliner Thursday after passengers became concerned about their conversation say AirTran officials refused to rebook them, even after FBI investigators cleared them of wrongdoing.


A Muslim family was removed from an AirTran flight after a conversation about the safest place to sit.

Atif Irfan said federal authorities removed eight members of his extended family and a friend after passengers heard them discussing the safest place to sit and misconstrued the nature of the conversation.

Irfan, a U.S. citizen and tax attorney, said he was "impressed with the professionalism" of the FBI agents who questioned him, but said he felt mistreated when the airline refused to book the family for a later flight.

AirTran Airways late Thursday said they acted properly and that the family was offered full refunds and can fly with AirTran again.

"AirTran Airways complied with all TSA, law enforcement and Homeland Security directives and had no discretion in the matter," the company said in a prepared statement.



http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/01/01...f=mpstoryemail


I got a question....how do u have this convo when once you purchase your tix, you are sitting in that one seat?

You ignored the substantive portion to focus on this?

This is an improper analogy, since you don't know whether a Muslim is an extremist. Instead you should say:

"Should African Americans be scared if a white person came through their neighborhood? Should Jewish people be scared if a German came through theirs?"

... because this guy is Muslim. He's not a Muslim Extremist (nee "Terrorist"), at least by appearances.

You're not being attacked, you're being questioned and asked to justify. That's OK - maybe I was a bit over the top, but when you claim something outlandish or beyond the pale, you'll have to defend the claim. This is a meritocracy, not Kindergarten - your ideas are not automatically "ok" just because they exist.

You know what sticks out most in my mind "Red bandana things..."

Just....wow.

Not necessarily. When I fly Southwest, I don't get an assigned seat. I'm given a lettered boarding pass (like A, B, or C) and then its just kinda first come, first serve. So if I have a boarding pass "A" then I pretty much get the pick any seat on the plane.

AirTran might have a similar "seating arrangement" that Southwest has.

We know because some of them have been arrested, including the owner of a very popular and high profile local restaurant chain who even had a relative working for the government (some of whom have been arrested and some of whom have left the country). It is a fact that there are terror cells within 10 minutes of where PM_Mama lives.

Air Tran has assigned seating, unlike SouthWest.

A lot of people have been deeply affected by 9/11 and are much more nervous about getting on a plane. Have you seriously never been uncomfortable with a stranger on an elevator because they gave you a bad vibe? When we had the big blackout of 2003, the first thing people thought was "terrorism". Before 9/11, we would have assumed "mechanical failure". We are in a different reality than we were on 9/10/01.


While I don't agree with racial profiling in general, the reality is, most Al Qaeda members are not little old white ladies. Profiling is a reality. It's a reality when you're crossing the border between Detroit and Windsor. Young white men who don't look clean cut almost always get stopped and have their cars searched for drugs. I've never had my car searched when crossing the border. Some people are under more scrutiny because of their appearance and demeanor. My brother had friends who were troublemakers and often got labeled as a troublemaker as a kid even though he never did anything wrong himself. He got blamed for stuff anyway because he hung out with suspect kids. This is human nature.

If something similar to 9/11 happened again and one of the terrorists were wearing a t-shirt like that, there would be outcries that nobody checked out the person who was wearing that shirt. We have been encouraged to keep our eyes out for anybody/anything that looks suspicious. This is the result of that. It takes one small thing to completely change how airport security looks at things. The "shoe bomber" led to everybody taking off their shoes and having them x-rayed, even flip flops which obviously have nowhere to hide a bomb. The liquid explosive scare has us unable to bring a large bottle of shampoo in our carry ons. They pretty much HAVE to check out anybody who is making others suspicious. It doesn't mean they'll catch the next terrorist, but if it means they miss one, there would be hell to pay for them.

Hmmm...I didn't know that..but then ususally when I fly I request the emergency aisle for the extra leg room...

A distinction needs to be made between a personal, emotional and perhaps illogical reaction to something like the shirt in question and having authorities act on someone's reaction, or even worse on a hypothetical reaction. So - did the shirt constitute a threat? The court decision is "no".

Free speech which doesn't protect speech which makes others uncomfortable is hardly "free".

Nervous? Perhaps. But, threatened? Really? :rolleyes:

I have an insane fear of elevators and getting stuck in one (caustrophia) especially with the wrong person. I avoid elevators if I can... actually did for 8 years until my job required it. And that first time getting in again was hell and I almost started hyperventilating but then the doors finally opened. So it's not bullshit.

If I saw Timothy McVeigh, in a post-terrorism world (and old enough to understand better) on the street I'd probably be wary of him. He was kinda scary looking.

How's does the red thing come from watching too many movies?

And no I'm not afraid of turbans. Stop making assumptions.

Please read Dee's response.

And just a little FYI for you, Pakistani does not equal Arab, but guess what? He's Pakistani AND Arab! WOW. I know plenty of Pakistani Arabs and all are Muslim.

You're right. My bad.

You've said exactly what I was thinking. Sometimes my words don't come out how I'm thinking them.

On 9-11, I was at school in Dearborn. They showed on the news that Muslims, DOWN THE STREET from the school (Warren Ave for those familiar), were in the streets dancing and singing and celebrating. I duno. Maybe that's not a reason to feel threathened though right?


eta: I get Palestine and Pakistan mixed up all the time. He may be from Palestine. I need to ask her.

Great paragraph.

I don't believe that you'd be nervous regardless of how the wearer looks.

I was scared and pissed off when I was walking down the Vegas strip after Christmas and some arabs/palestinians/middle-easterners shouted "Death to Israel" to some Jews who were simply driving down the strip wishing people happy holidays and a happy new year (a nice gesture that had nothing to do with politics or current issues). Husband and I moved to the other side of the strip in both fear of something happening and fear of what we may say in anger to spark an argument/dispute.

I will stand up and support PM_Mama on this issue.

Exactly.

Terrorist attacks are a relative rarity, even moreso than the generally infrequent interracial homicide. But people's fears aren't based on the probability of being victimized. They are based on the perceived monstrosity of the incident and a fear of "the other." This is moreso the case with whites' fear of being victimized by blacks and many Americans' fears of being victimized by people of East Indian descent.

Realistically, people should be most fearful of those who look like them and of those who spend the most time around them, specifically family, friends, and personal and professional acquaintances. That sounds too much like right, though.

Apples and oranges.

The people that you are talking about were exercising their free speech (in English) in a manner that was overtly confrontational and meant to incite negative emotion. "We will not be silent" is not so clear and is being interpreted as saying something that it may not. If that tshirt had said "gummy bears are awesome" in Arabic, people would have still been afraid. "Gummy bears" would have been interpreted as a code word for suicide plane bombers.

Says who she or anyone else has to defend their ideas or opinions on Greekchat.com? You dont have to agree with one's ideas or opinions. They have the right to those ideas or opinions. You can respectfully agree to disagree with them.