Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think in some places neophyte means someone who is done with pledgeship but not yet a brother.

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

People do get killed during basic. But not that many.

I had to think about that a little.

Certainly the military is in the hazing business, but the hazers (DI's, etc) may be a little more mature than the average fraternity man (or sorority woman). They all have several years of military training themselves which probably creates some amount of that maturity. Additionally, while sometimes calling for "creativity" on the part of the DI, the military has the training down to a science and many years of "experience." The people doing the hazing are, for the most part, highly disciplined -- not the case in an organization of 18-22 year old college students away from home for the first time.

Changing gears, of course I was hazed during the pledge process. In those days, everyone was.

Over the years, I've been an advisor and division officer, and I can see absolutely no indication that physical hazing and mental distress somehow creates "closer" relationships or better pledge classes.

However, I do feel strongly that the definition of hazing needs to be honed. Some laws and rules are so broad as to be ridiculous -- but it is my opinion that the reason for these far ranging rules is that when allowed some level of hazing, some chapters and members don't know when to stop and things get terribly out of hand.

Originally Posted by macallan25

Sorry, but I disagree. I know tons of chapters of Phi Delt that have been caught and none of them have "lost their charters."

Originally Posted by macallan25

I base my claims that the strongest chapters are in the South because I have traveled to many differenct campuses across the country and have been to leadership schools for SAE in which representatives from all over the country come.....and I have listened to and heard exactly what people from the North and elsewhere think about us, and chapters from schools like Alabama, UGA, Ole Miss, etc. To be completely honest they were all pretty in awe.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

You're right, there are insurance concerns. Thankfully, my fraternity never made a habit out of telling our nationals or insurance co. everything we were involved in. It has everything to do with political correctness. Thats why regulations go beyond the physical. The current idea of hazing often includes anything that makes a pledge feel uncomfortable or stressed or embarassed. Its great that we protect these 18 year old boys from those things, because God knows they'll never in life face periods where they are uncomfortable, stressed or embarassed.

Originally Posted by Tom Earp (Post 1246698)

Why is Baylor such a poor Greek School.

Seems that they have a lot of GLOs there.

Originally Posted by ICEBATHSAREFUN (Post 1561141)

Baylor has a bad Greek system because the administration at Baylor will not allow there to be a good Greek system. Fraternities get suspended for ridiculous reason that would never happen at other schools. Also Baylor did not have national fraternities until the 70's.

Originally Posted by jon1856 (Post 1561168)

Details and definitions would be very helpful in your "cause".
General comments as you made say really nothing at all.

Originally Posted by ICEBATHSAREFUN (Post 1561250)

and I really what my "cause" is?? I'm new on this board and was browsing through some old threads and someone asked a question about Baylor's Greek system so I answered.