We've had several threads on here about legacies and also what a hard time they have these days during competitive rushes. It's heartbreaking. Yes, I know that many chapters have more legacies than they have spots open but it's still heartbreaking for moms and sisters of released PNMs.

I really feel that way myself more than I assumed that you did. I'm sorry if it seemed like an accusation of you. It was more of a confession, I think.

I think that I'd be so angry and want the chapter to have to appreciate the mistake they had made.

ETA: No one need fear my hypothetical wrath. I don't actually have any legacies. I can just really imagine how upset I would be if I were actively involved in the life of a chapter and they cut my kid.

I'm beginning to think after so many sad legacy stories, including 3 or 4 I know of personally, that it may be best to leave out all mention of legacy status.

legacies
 

After reading all these, and going through something similar with my wife's sorority regarding my daughter in an SEC school (although she did attend three prefs. and chose a fantastic group), I am still torn about the whole legacy thing.

I really see Jobellesis's point, but her chosen name says it: it is a tribute to her own Arkansas sorority and its roots. Isn't that what legacies are---our way of keeping the flow going, or re-connecting with the past, or keeping something we love in the family? All Greek groups rely on past members for so much; without them, what would become of: homecoming? alumni (or ae) dinners? mailings to past members? former pledge class dinners and retreats? all the articles in our magazines that focus on dedicated alums or grads. or gave of themselves for years? ALL THIS RELATES (in some way) TO LEGACIES!!

As a longtime fraternity advisor, I am so glad that we do have have the yearly drama and heartbreak that come with legacies. We do have it, but very seldom in the numbers and seriousness that have consumed page after page on these posts!

And to those of you whose children have found recent happiness in Greek life, kudos to them and you!! For those of you who are hurting, remember that you are the strength those broken-hearted children turn to when things don't work out---be strong and positive for them, and then vent here!! The support we give each other is one of the BEST things about being Greek and this site!

I am actually a lucky mother who can also call her daughter, sister. I personally am in favor of legs getting their legacy chapter unless there is some major problem. However, I wonder if perhaps some girls were cut at large schools with competitive recruitments because there can only be so many legacies chosen for a chapter. Being a legacy didn't seem to help them very much. Not only were the legacies competing with the whole pnm pool; they were competing in the legacy pool, which appears to be a tougher group to get through. I really don't know what I'd do if I had a daughter going through one of the competitive rushes at a large school where there were more legs than quota spots. I'm pretty sure I'd never list her legacy status on the panhellenic registration form.

Jobellesis...i never thought about it that way! You are right...legacies have a much tougher group to compete with for fewer spots in the new member class. I agree that legacies are a wonderful thing (especially since I was one!) I think leaving your legacy status a secret may be for the best at these seriously competitive schools to allow yourself to fall back into the normal group of PNMs. Later you can reveal your status if you beat the odds.

I am so happy that you are a proud legacy mom..congrats. I guess in my situation I have to know what legacy defines. A pnm whose mom, sister ,or aunt is a legacy ?? This is what I have known to be true. So what about a pnm whose mom and her 2 sisters were legacies to the UGA chapter and all of which were officers in XYZ chapter. Is it fair to take the pnm and spend only 40 minutes to decide ? This being from rounds 1 & 2. While I know there were many legacies I wonder how many went through with that statistic. While this pnm had many recs at other houses, do you not think that they looked at the 4x legacy and decided to cut because they assumed she would choose that house. 1300 girls,they had to make cuts where they could. I think in my daughters situation her families commitment to greek life actually hurt her in the long run.

You may want to find out about what your Nationals legacy requirement is - how many rounds they need to be invited to, if they need to be on the bid list after a certain round, etc.

I know that there are several (if not most) NPC groups with a stipulation that if a legacy makes it to the pref round, she must be on that chapter's first bid list. Don't know all the rules for all the organizations, but its possible that your org could have a rule that says "you have to invite a legacy to second round, but have to release them by X time if you don't plan to put them on the 1st bid list." If the chapter wasn't certain that they wanted a particular legacy to be on the first bid list, it may force them to release her. (Especially at a school w/tons of legacies.)

Since MS rules are private, we here at GC can't tell you what your group's policy is. But as an initiated member, you certainly get that information if you wanted it. It could at least give you an idea of whether your daughter was relased when she was. (Not specifics, of course, but at least knowing whether it might have been due to a policy issue or not.)

What is a legacy is dependent upon the sorority. For Delta Gamma, a woman can be a leg through her mother, grandmother, or sister (as well as step-relations in these categories). Some other sororities, however, may consider aunts and cousins in their legacy definition. Your group's policy should be on your national website.

In answer to your question, it's not fair for a house to only take 40 minutes to decide on a girl. But some houses at UGA have several times quota in legacies coming through, and they have to make legacy cuts at that point. I know of a young lady who was a legacy several times over to a competitive chapter on campus, and she was cut after round two when she rushed... so your daughter is not the first. It's sad, but I don't think it is by any means rare.

I think you are right that some chapters might have chosen to cut your daughter because of her multiple legacies to your house, especially if it was an established, competitive house on campus (and I gather from some of what you've posted that it is). Of course, none of us were there for MS at any of the houses to be sure, but it makes sense that some houses would think "Why bother if she's going to end up an XYZ anyway?" when they saw how many XYZ members are in her family. Again, it's not fair, but often when groups have to make cuts, they need to cut girls they feel have a strong chance of going elsewhere, whether 8 million of their friends are ABCs or they have a family line going back to the early 1900s in XYZ.

Here's a question I have about writing recs, PNMs, and chapters at UGA: Are there some sororities that tend to accept PNMs MAINLY from one particular area of Atlanta and/or private school sector, etc? I say mainly to acknowledge the few others they may accept; but I keep hearing over and over that certain groups will reject great PNMs from other places in the state (or states) in favor of great PNMs from a particular area/burb/school. Membership/bids-accepted lists seem to validate this. Comments?

Back door way around system
 

There is another way around the situation for your daughter. I am not condoning this in any way but I saw this happen many times in my chapter and other sororities at my school. Girls from UGA who were not able to get in the chapter they wanted transferred mid-year to my school where they tried to pick up a bid through COB and then if successful, they pledged, initiated, then transfered back to UGA the next year and petitioned for affiliation with that chapter.

I am prefacing this post by saying I am not trying to be snarky or get under anyone's skin. I understand that there are some upset people on here - both PNMs and parents and that I do not come from an ultra competive recruitment background like Bama or UGA.

Most of the venting and hurt seems to be coming from the alums, and the moms that have written the recs and did alot of the leg work. But how much of the responsibility comes down to the PNM to reach out (even if you are out of state) and introduce herself to the chapter. Especially in an ultra competitive recruitment. With things like Facebook, a few little exchanges between a potential PNM (obvi. before silence or no-contact rules go into effect) and an active could go along way -- at least get a name remembered, the actives talking about this really cool pnm that annieactive talked to and she is a 5x chapter legacy.

I also have been seeing a lot of posts about how angry alums are at the specific chapter for releasing their girls. But maybe the chapter had good reasons (not that your girls aren't wondeful -- i'm not insinuating that), but maybe the pnms weren't talkative (we've seen lots of stories about the mute pnm) or were braggarts (we've seen lots of stories about the bragging pnm) that may have rubbed the actives the wrong way, or maybe the pnm just got talking to 1 or 2 actives that weren't very good at rushing and didn't introduce your girl to enough people, etc. Bottom line is that you don't know what went on during those parties, you don't know how your girl did through the eyes of the actives, and you don't know what went on during ms, and you will probably never know.

And as my sister goes off to college this weekend (recruitment is deffered where she is going) I think how upset she would be if she didn't get a bid, and how mortified she would be if her rec writers continually bashed the system.

This has been discussed on GC. It doesn't always work - i.e. the UGA chapter may vote to NOT let the girl become an active member - and sometimes even if it does the girl has to wait a year or so to affiliate.

Not to mention having to transfer from the school where you want to be (UGA) to a school where you don't want to be, and possibly losing credits in the process. I don't think a sorority is really worth all that.

Ditto!

I know it's been done, but I certainly would never recommend it as a sane option!

Just wondering....how accurate are these results?