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Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2256617)

I know this is probably different for every group, but can a housing corp place any restrictions on the women who live in the house (i.e. can they say seniors have to live out)? Or do they not have that much power?

I can't speak for IU but as far as my particular sorority and chapter, any changes to our local housing policies had to be voted on as they were part of our local bylaws and any bylaw changes require a vote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowlady (Post 2256615)

My own daughter's chapter at Texas A&M has over 200 girls, while she doesn't know them all really well, she knows where everyone is from and a little about them. She loves her sisters and would be there for any of them. They manage to fit all the girls in the house for meetings, have date parties etc.

It is a travesty to say that campuses with larger quotas/chapters are not having a special experience.

I think the girls who said that are getting way raked over the coals. Coming from a chapter of 50 and a small Greek system in general, I understand. I don't think anyone is saying that you can't find love and closeness and forever friendships in a 200+ chapter, but you are simply not going to know every single sister inside out like you do in a smaller chapter. It's not "better" or "worse" - it's just DIFFERENT. Would I have wanted to be in a chapter of 200 or even 100? 19 year old rushing me says no. Current day me would probably be fine with it. Believe me, we had Greeks who chafed at the smallness of our system, and I'm sure IU does too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowlady (Post 2256618)

I would think the collegians would be the ones with the voice as they comprise the CPC. They would need buy in from the alumnae but they can drive the process.

They also need reassurance from TPTB that they're not going to get their charter yanked if the "growing pains" include numbers taking a sudden dip into the toilet.

Or that having a house-less chapter is also not a special experience. I think there are some chinks in the armor so to speak with the small change this year in a few more chapters voting to allow seniors to live out. As they learn that their sisterhoods don't fall into oblivion, and the chapter officers see what happens to the bank account, they'll loosen up.

But speaking of all things IU, shouldn't we have some numbers by now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2256622)

They also need reassurance from TPTB that they're not going to get their charter yanked if the "growing pains" include numbers taking a sudden dip into the toilet.

If all the house agree they want to change and move to a true RFM system their numbers would grow, not drop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowlady (Post 2256625)

If all the house agree they want to change and move to a true RFM system their numbers would grow, not drop.

The key word there is "all."

And I'm betting there would be members who disliked the change who would self-terminate - even if all the groups did it. As I said, some people just don't want to be in what they consider a big chapter.

What would be the optimum is if IU (and Greek systems everywhere in general) could recognize that some women like bigger chapters, some women like smaller chapters, some women love living in a house, some women would rather eat their own head than live in a house and love the unhoused option - and embrace all those differences without it getting caught up in social strata. Guys seem to do this pretty well, I wish females could too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2256623)

I know that it must be so tough for the house-less chapters at IU. I asked this earlier and might have missed the answer, but do these chapters have a plan to build?

I know at Bama DG went on during expansion, they had the plans for a new house and lot ready to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2256617)

At the universities I've been involved with (mine, & as an Advisor at 2 campuses), it's in the chapter by-laws. Voted on by the chapter, with House Corporation involvement (budget planning).

There's a minumum # of members who have to live in (so the house is not operating in the red), plus a point system to see who lives in the house & what room they get (based on year, attending activities & events, volunteering for in-house duties, if you hold an office, etc.) It's a cumulative total, so seniors end up having the most points & are not required to live in (unless a member holds an Executive Office). It works quite well and Exec. doesn't have to beg actives to do things (like set up for chapter meetings) because the members are earning points!

I'm sure Jean (NPC) knows about the challenge of IU's system. Will talk to her about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2256617)

Generally speaking (with emphasis on the generally), the HC owns the house and leases it for a set cost to the chapter who, in turn, sets the rules for living in so that they can make the rent they have agreed to.

Quote:

a lot of the fault for the dismal placement numbers lies in the hands of the PNMs who won't take the invitations offered to them.

Okay, but that doesn't happen in a vacuum, either. I agree with the post upthread that Indiana's actives created a monster by conveying that sorority experience = living in, period. Well, if that's what the upperclassmen teach freshmen, they believe it. Even Ole Miss, of all places, has close to 90% placement now. This is the school that had to move rush to mid-semester because women were dropping out of SCHOOL when they didn't get the right house. Now less than 10% of PNMs drop out of rush despite a tier system carved into marble. Everybody decided to emphasize participation in the system, so the culture changed.

The better parallels to IU, IMHO, are OU and Mizzou. Giant, beautiful old mansions, Greek system is crucial to social life, a lot of emphasis on living in, and they still do just fine letting seniors live out.

Quote:
a lot of the fault for the dismal placement numbers lies in the hands of the PNMs who won't take the invitations offered to them.

This is completely false because all of the chapters took their individually set "quota" last year and nearly every year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChioLu (Post 2256631)

I wrote out basically this same post. This is how the chapter I advise through housing corp works.

Except a few MIGHT have been able to take more. Some of the chapters did take quota additions. Whether they took as many as they could or not, I don't know. But I would think if there was a girl on one of the new chapters' lists, they would have been placed.

Historical question: Did most universities start off with bed quota like Indiana uses and then transition to the way recruitment is now?

Rhomom, I'm confused by this entire exchange (parts have been redacted to highlight the point I'm driving at):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhomom (Post 2256584)

To moms whose hearts are breaking because this has been so difficult; I know how frustrated and angry you are--I lived it. But also know that there is not one current active who finds this anything but agonizing. They, like the PNM's have not eaten, have not slept and are absolutely disgusted by the process.

To the poster that said that taking more members makes it less special? That chapters should be exclusive? You are dead wrong--most of these ladies would do anything to be able to make this system more inclusive. Comments such as this serve to only perpetuate the perception of "mean girls". There may indeed be some of those as well, but they do not represent the majority of women in houses.

……..

Lastly, IU admissions has no control over the current system, nor does the administration, the board of trustees or the dean of students. Short of removing sororities from campus, their hands are tied. I know this because I am also an IU "employee". Believe me, we are bracing for unhappy students and parents, and are very, very tired of the way things are done. The only people that can change this is panhel, individual nationals and NPC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinksequins (Post 2256591)

Rhomom -- you note that the actives are disgusted with the process. The good news is that they are the ones with the power to change it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhomom (Post 2256594)

No, unfortunately the current actives do not. In fact, they have very little control (individually) of who gets through. Perhaps as alums they will become involved--then they may be able to change things. But for now, they too play with the cards they are dealt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinksequins (Post 2256599)

RhoMom -- they do. If as many women as you allege are unhappy with the process they can make it known to their Panhellenic delegates and alumnae. So, either the degree of dissatisfaction is overstated or it's another rationalization for not doing anything. I just keep reading lame excuses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhomom (Post 2256610)

I "allege" nothing. This is simply the way it is. Actives HAVE expressed their concerns--to panhel, to nationals and they have worked with NPC. IU has opened up for expansion, many houses are allowing live outs and there are some small strides being made. It is however Panhel with direction from Nationals and alums who make the process decisions, not current members. If you are affiliated with an organization that allows current actives to drive the recruitment process, that is terrific, however it is not that simple. This is a complex system issue requiring a major shift in culture. The actives who feel this way today must continue to pursue change when they do have the power to impact things--as alumna.

If EVERYONE - the national organizations, alumnae, NPC, the school's administration, the active students (who apparently have "no say" in the matter…) - want this system to be changed, and the national organizations, alumnae, and NPC have the power to change it, why hasn't it been changed? According to what you've said here, if they tried, they would encounter zero resistance.

What am I missing here?

And why would the current students have no say? I admittedly know very little about this system, other than what has been posted here on Greekchat over the years, but I can't imagine that the active members of these chapters who run Panhellenic on their campus have no ability to change the system so that they make 1800 PNMs and thousands of active sisters happy. I don't know of any other campus where the active members of the NPC sororities can't make decisions that impact recruitment and Greek life as a whole.

How is this campus different?