Separating doesn't have to be negative though. We are separated by our org being historically African American and NPHC but we don't have bad feelings toward non-NPHC orgs or think bad of them.

Also what I meant in my previous post when I said that for some linking color to bad/good is natural, I meant that not everyone learns this consciousness even though they become aware that it exists. Some of us are fortunate enough when we are young to have parents who talk to us and constantly reinforce the idea that we are beautiful and that all skin tones are beautiful.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wave caps or using gels and creams to enhance your waves or curls. Waves and Curls are pretty (not that other textures aren't) and if you have them and want to enhance them, I see nothing wrong with it as long as you don't get caught up in curly/wavy hair being the only textures that are beautiful. My mom used to always say that "good" hair is healthy, maintained hair.

@Iota and rhoyaltempest

I think that this point about language is important. "Good hair," "fine features," "fair-skinned," all of this language reinforces that light/white=good, dark/black=bad dichotomy. So the youth don't even have to necessarily encounter overt categorization to internalize these distinctions.

Oh I agree that there's nothing wrong. My mom also taught me that healthy hair is "good" hair.

I just remember when I was little and dudes who didn't have wavy or curly hair were struggling to make it happen with the wave cap and thick arse grease. Obsessed over it.

Exactly. It wasn't always so easy for me to love myself just the way I am. It was a process, but I was alway taught too that any kind of black is beautiful. My mother, who is originally from Liberia, West Africa, has had the most impact on how I see myself as not only a woman but a woman of color. People ASSume a lot of things about me and my family because I am half African and the things people say:mad:.....wheeeew knowledge certainly is the Torch!! If people could see my mother's side of the family they would be surprised...lol..you will see white people, light people, inbetween people, and everthing else...and its all beautiful.

The part of your quote I bolded...you said that! Yeeeeees mayam you did;)!

I remember when Oprah first began her talkshow and they were talking about colorisms. One thing that got me (and I was young, of course) was when this light skinned black woman with blondish-brown hair stood to talk about how blacks need to stop separating ourselves.

Well, what got me is that she made a point to say "yeah, I get treated a certain way because my skin is light...oh and this is my real hair and my eyes are really blue." And Oprah was nodding her head like "wow, really?" It wasn't like the woman just just stating the obvious--it almost seemed bragadocious. It's just funny to me when people want to say "don't separate...but I want to be on the record as pointing out my features that make me distinct from the average black person I encounter."

Colorism comes from all sides. Even those of us who are conscious about this may find ourselves guilty of it subconsciously, in some regard, if we don't challenge ourselves (and others) to do better.

I like that :)

Kids will pick up on any and everything, especially negative ideals that tend to be passed down. Darker images do tend to coincide with darker colors as was stated earlier, so it's not hard to see why people will willingly accept that darker skin color is associated with ugliness, imperfection, etc. I know many people don't think Grace Jones or Alec Wek are "pretty" but I find both of them to be gorgeous. But then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so let the tone wars continue :)

Alec Wek is gorgeous, but Grace Jones is scary (I think that it is the fade).

Alek Wok is beautiful.

Grace Jones is gorgeous. However, that photo gives her the David Bowie/alien vibe. I suddenly thought of her in "Boomerang." LOL.

Neither are "beautiful to be dark" but their skin and hair added to their appeal and impact.

LOL I love that Grace Jones has strong features, I think it makes her that more appealing.

The fade, the cigarette, the "muscular" chest and open padded shouldered suit. They were going for the unisex look. More like an alien invasion.

Exactly. I think that her features are nice, but that picture does make her intimidating, like she will kick your butt in a second, and I have never thought that the fade was a good look for any woman.

That was exactly what I thought of at first too! LOL. She was hilarious. And yes, that fade she was made to sport in the 80s never did her any favors in re: showing off her femininity...