OUCH!!!!!!
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GOOD POINT!http://www.clicksmilies.com/sammlung.../aktion054.gif

LovelyIvy, I do not get on a post because it is a race thing but because it gets into a prolonged debate that starts with good points and degenerates into back biting and name calling!

That is not what this site is for. Correct me if I am wrong!

We are here to air Greek Problems whether it be Black, Red, White or Yellow!

Yes I get a lot of shots and who in the hell cares, but I have one common goal in life, that the Greeks unite as We as A Group are A Minority, not counting on the color or race barrier!

If some one comes in my business and acts strange, I do not care what color he/she is I get a little concerned! Why Because of my safety!

I have gone into many reasons of explanations of my feelings and the people I have come to meet and Know but I still got shot down on what I have tried to say with my feelings!

Hell yes we are all different, would it not be a boring place if we are all the same?:confused:

Yes I get upset when someone comes on this site and says you hate!!!!!!! Then whe when people try to explain their feelings and get flamed!

BS I will hate when someone acts me or my way of life!

There have been many good points brought up but has anyone noticed neicey has not posted?
:confused:

KSig RC, thanks for your reply! I found your answers very interesting, and I thought over my ideas again. You know what, I agree with you, efforts should be made in all stages of schooling. I didn't mean to imply that any other efforts should be taken away, but that more are added to existing efforts.

The whole immigrant thang...ah yes, I see your point there, even though it wasn't one guy, it's consistent relationships with a very large number of people(I come from a crazily diverse neighborhood). But you are right, it could still just be MY experience. I'm mad that I slipped up there, I usually try to repress basing things on just my experience. But my point is that a white immigrant is still white, and will still have an advantage over minorites, even if it takes a generation or two for that to happen.

Does anyone else want to respond? I'm interested, and get this, I WELCOME criticism!!! Well, as long as it's not idiotic and makes grammatical sense...:p

This is the Horatio Alger myth...oops! I meant the american Dream isn't it? And it sure does sound ideal! Unfortunately ilovemyglo, it just doesn't work out that way. See Exquisite5's post, she broke it down.

CLASS and RACE/GENDER barriers are two VERY different things.

Affirmative Action as we speak of it is in place to protect MINORITIES and WOMEN in the workforce and education. Not that it is oh so successful, but that is why it is there. It is NOT there to assist the UNDERPRIVILEDGED. Do not over-generalize and make the two synonymous when they are not necessarily.

I understand your experience, I really do.

But once again, anecdotal evidence can not be assumed to hold true to a group at large.

If I held to my anecdotal evidence about whites I would make the assumption that they were all rich WASPs because that's what I grew up with in my provate school.

My experience is skewed too because I have never been in a school where every minority didn't work their ass off a. to get there and b. to stay there. It was quite all right for the white kids- who were almost all rich- not to have especially good grades, or maybe a discipline problem, but we were well aware that the school wasn't going to have the same lenient attitude with us. So this whole "Who deserves to be there" argument really only happened over the people who bought their way in, and guess what, they weren't minorities.

The conduct of the few minorities that you saw who didn't appreciate what they had doesn't disvalue the system at large.

If you looked, I am sure you would have found that they are in the clear minority of people who do get into college using affirmative action.

And you still haven't addressed my point- when the chances of black children in this country at a decent education are so SHARPLY curtailed at the secondary level, how can you even imagine that some form of AA is not needed? At the public school in MY neighborhood they barely had books, and at some of the schools there were actual holes in the walls. Real fun during winter. I refused to walk by the school at night because that's where "business transactions" would commonly take place- and don't think they left when school started either. Let's just say learning wasn't a priority at that school, just getting the hell out was. Busing was not an option unless you tested out- if you didn't go to the crappy ass public school then your parents had to put out the money for parochial or private school. And most families really didn't have it.

So kids who went there and graduated didn't always have the best grades- not because they weren't smart, or didn't try. But it wasn't a place where LEARNING was a priority. And you can forget about help with AP's or SAT's. One friend of mine who went there told me that when SAT time rolled around, no one gave them any info on the test other than they had to take ie, they just told them to show up at the gym on a saturday.

And applying to colleges wasn't going to be easy unless by the Grace of God you happened to have one of those rare college guidance counselors who gave two shits about you. One of my best friends that I grew up with went to a SUNY- and I am not criticising SUNY's here, but this girl had the grades and extracurriculars to go damn near anywhere she wanted! But when she was applying to schools, the thought of a Harvard, or a Princeton (which will give extensive financial aid to anyone who needs it, regardless of race, they can afford it!) never entered her head! No one at that school ever assumed that it could be within her range of possibilities! I was SO upset when she told me because I knew that she could do whatever she put her mind to, and whoever was advising her didn't.

So there is my anecdotal evidence, and the research that I have done into the school system has shown me that far from being only my observations, it is the experience of many minorities, especially in urban areas.

Trying to compare the experience of white immigrants and Blacks in this country is like comparing apples and tomatoes.

Immigrants come here with a choice, and without social stigma- unless they're Hispanic, or Lord help them, Haitian. They don't even begin to face the kinds of discrimination that blacks do in this society.

I have to say that I resent the hell out of your implication that somehow all blacks are somehow just lazy. You have NO IDEA what we face, and you make it obvious.

As far as ancedotal evidence of a couple of minorities in college goes... That argument is pretty damned lame. I've seen PLENTY of rich kids go to school, not give two shits about their grades and basically live off of mommy and daddy for as long as they can. I knew a guy like that who pulled a whopping 0.0 GPA!

You can't judge an entire race (millions of people) by the stupid behavior of 1, 2 or 200 or whatever. THAT is what prejudism is all about! How do you expect people to get out of neighborhoods like many come from without a little help? Oh true, it CAN be done... but the path is much harder than it was for me who had a suburban upbringing, the best schools and all the opportunities life can offer.

AA has its place, that's for certain... Again I'll say I'm not so sure it has much of a place beyond educational institutions -- if a company doesn't hire minorities they have to answer to Jesse Jackson!!! (kidding, I had to go there though:D ). But seriously, the law is a bit flawed. You can't FORCE an employer to hire females and people of color to meet certain quotas... The change has to be voluntary so the culture needs to be changed.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Negative Action
 

Just kind of funny....
 

I just got a kick out of that satement :D That's all. Now ya'll can go back to the topic :p

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To many Re's
 

First off, you have to understand that when something like slavery happens, the after-effects don't just magically disappear. When it comes to the ethnic hierarchy in the U.S., blacks remain at the bottom. That is not something that will change tomrrow or next week. Itis going to take a LOT to eradicate that and the oppression that STILL results. Don't get me wrong. Yes, progress has been made. Yes, there have been great strides to ensure equality. But the fact remains that there is still great progress to BE made. I think that unless you can walk in the shoes of a black person for one day, you can't get a full grasp on a black person's daily reality. I understand that you feel that the american dream is reality, but that is because you have not yet experienced otherwise.

On another note, the plights of Blacks and Jews CANNOT be compared. Although both ethnic groups have been through a SEVERE trauma, they are fundamentally different. Again, the Jews chose to migrate here, they were not forced to come to America to become enslaved. They did face their share of discrimination (and still do, to an extent), but they were bumped up the totem pole when the next groups of immigrants came to the U.S.

Historically, whenever a group migrated to the U.S., they were automatically classified at the bottom of the hierarchy and recieved the worst treatment until the next wave of immigrants came along. However, since blacks were brought to the United States, they became the new bottom dwellers and for some reason, that has not changed.


You cannot blame us for our perception. All we know of you is what you post. If your post comes off sounding ignorant, that is how you will be perceived. Perhaps you should thoroughly think out your replies before submitting. I actually think that this post was FAR better than your others as far as explaining your mentality.

Quick correction: I do not think you are an ignorant person...rather, you just have some ignorant views on the topic of ethnicity in America.

Also, because you will interact with someone of another race, or invite them into your organization does not make you any less ignorant on these issues.

I am not flaming you at all. I respect this post a lot because it seems to me that you actually took the time to consider your feelings, without getting defensive.

The fact that you posted "I hope no one thinks I am racist for posting this article..." as a preface to the beginning of this thread let me know that you are unsure how others will perceive you and your level of prejudice. If you are introspective, you might realize that other's perceptions (specifically those on GC, as based on your posts) are not all that inaccurate. If what you post is how you TRULY feel, then there is no room for error.

Fine, it's not biology. If appearance isn't biology, then I'm wrong. I thought I look the way I look because of my parents, I didn't realize science had to be all or nothing to be "science." I understand you when you say it's not science or biology, but physical appearances aren't conjured up at random, there is a pattern to everyone. I took biology in high school, I remember the whole dominant and recessive gene chart, and of course I realize that you can have a white african-american, and just about any other combination if the odds are in your favor. I know all this and see what everyone is saying.

All people look different, this is pure fact. Some people have similarities between others, this is also safe to claim as fact. And yet, while some people look the same, they may not have any relation to that group other than their appearances being similar.

Is it all just a strange random coincidence that so many people look alike that they can be segregated as a group? No, they similar because they share a variation in their genetic makeup that is not part of everyone else. Is it an exact science that someone can go "Hey look, I found the asian gene, woohoo!" Silly rabbit, trix are for kids. I am not a scientist, I can't make heads or tails of my double helix, but I know that there is "something" there that makes me appear the way I do.

I know you do not agree there is any concrete biological basis for race, I see what you are saying. It does make sense, but someone's physical appearance does derive from their genealogy. Even though it is a social construct, there is some merit (even if it's less than 1%) in the theory that it has something to do with your genetic makeup.

I'm not trying to say that one group has better DNA than me, or that it has anything to do with one race being superior to another, all I'm trying to say is that the similar physical appearance of one ethnic group occurs from a shared or common trait passed down by our parents.


RUgreek

Woah there, slow down!
 

Hmm, alright, I will try to make this as neutral and simple so I don't say anything offensive or stupid here. The plight of Blacks and Jews cannot be compared? I guess I need to understand more of what you mean, in the sense that one suffered more than the other?

There is no way I'm going to sit here and say one group suffered more than the other, I think that would just be the most ridiculous thing to argue about, and pointless. We all suffered, that should be enough. As for Jews choosing to migrate, I think that's a fallacy. Throughout history, all the jewish people have done is migrate from one place to another, only to be enslaved, persecuted, and murdered. There are still people today that believe in blood libels, that's how back assed our friendly friendly world is :rolleyes: Anyway, to say that they chose to come here, where african-americans were forced here as slaves is different, no argument here. However, african americans were emancipated way before jews were accepted in America. Check out some movies from the 1920's and 30's, antisemetism was strong and very much part of American society.

So what did bump the Jews up the totem pole in America then? Well, that's sort of complicated, but the assimilation didn't occur, at least effectively until after the 1967 middle east war when America started showing support for Israel. Most people believe it was pity from the holocaust that made Jews "white" in America, this is not true. Being white in America was strictly for the christians (Protestants) before that time. Economics played an important role I'm sure, as well as other factors. But this is nativism, not what we are suppose to be talking about.

One last thing I'd like to say, which is the gender discrmination as it relates to race. You say African-americans are at the bottom of the ladder so to speak, but even within that classification, it separates even further. I'd have to say that being black as well as female only adds insult to injury, because they have what appears to be double discrimination. Talk about unfair!

Sorry if my ramblings didn't have a point, I just felt like typing some thoughts, later...


RUgreek

i love reviving old discussions:

there is a website & i think it's funny...because I don't think it is too poor of taste, but see what you think.

It's mostly a stab at white people who are like - 'me, i'm not racist - i had a black friend when i was in third grade'

Some people have taken REAL offense to it, so I'm curious as to what your impressions are, in light of this discussion, old as it may be - it is a basis

Black People Love Us

I think someone buried in this rubble of a thread, is a discussion about this website.

I'm surprised its still up and running.

i haven't even the slightest idea what that means. if it weren't for the smiley, i wouldn't even know that, presumably, it is a negative thing. for the sake of curiousity...what is that?

Thanks for the 1,000,000th posting of blackpeopleloveus.com on greekchat, your door prize will be sent to your home or place of work immediately. Again, a sincere thanks.

-the mgmt
--my original thread on the site was a thing of beauty if you want to search