Woa i didn't even realize that. I was dictating to my younger bro who is also on here....guess i won't be doing that again lol
is there even a spell check on here? let me know :)

Is this typed verbatim from some member manual?

just to clear something up

I am obviously not familiar with ALL GLOs in existence. I (and that means I as in me personally in my experience or to my knowledge at my school) have never heard of any of them allowing anyone in the NMEP/pledges to wear letters. I mean non initiated members wear letters but, again in my experiance wearing letters was something to look forward to thats why it was strange for me to hear that it is allowed in some orgs. Hey you learn something new everyday :)
As a member of the Greek senate the term that was used (again at my school) was "earn" this is why I used that word, that Is what I am familiar with. It does not have anything to do with hazing when the GS used it. Think of it like this just as you earn an A in class by studying, getting help when needed, understanding and retaining the information then passing the class. It is in its own way very similar to the new member ed program. That is what I meant
furthermore, I personally wouldn’t want to be a part of something where they ridicule, humiliate, inflict physical or mental harm etc. “to belong” That’s just me. I come from a long line of family members who have though, so I have seen it and it just does not appeal to me at all.
Once again I have to say that this is MY personal experience with I have had in front of me. That post that seemed incredibly misconstrued was not meant to sound like I was speaking of all orgs or anything like that. Every1 has a different processes and termination…oops did I do it again I mean terminology…lol... even same orgs from different chapters vary in things like that. So if I gave any1 reason to get defensive my bad.

Hopefully I spelled everything right …… but if I didn’t I am sure someone will tell me;)

You don't need to explain yourself in terms of what "earn" means. (I can't speak on the issue with whatever org you're in)

I and many others are familiar with the different meanings of "earn." I figured you didn't mean hazing, although some do equate "earn" with hazing. OTW's and SWTX's responses to your post read like PR statements. :)

Ironically my sister is GPhi and Right before I graduated we, as in Greek Senate voted yes on a new chapter! I am very aware of the process and reputation as well as the commitment and dedication to community service and upholding academic standards. GPhiB was one of the 2 that where approved for new chapters on campus (the other being sigma pi fraternity) in my time on the board. You def speak the truth. Your attitude toward your sorority is similar to the girls who I know personally and who I know on a business level (the ones who came to request the new chapter) this is part of what lead us to the approving verdict. I think its great.:D

It really doesn't have to be either-or. Sure, oftentimes when people say "earn letters," they mean survive hazing, so I can see why people might very well want to steer clear of talking about "earning" letters. But there's no reason to assume that "earning" = hazing. Earning letters can also mean demonstrating "sincerity, dedication, intelligence, depth of character," and a desire to learn about and contribute to the fraternity.

We've had this discussion many times, but I'll say it again: Unlike NPC sororities, most fraternities with which I'm familiar (NIC or non-NIC) have two votes on new members -- one on whether to issue a bid and pledge the guy and a second at the end of the pledge period on whether to initiate him. Under this set-up, there is built in to the process a decision on whether the pledge has demonstrated that the chapter was right in offering him a bid and pledging him. So even without any hazing at all, there is still a sense that the pledge has "proven his worth" and is deserving of the honor of initiation. (And I won't make this post even longer than it is by going into my theory on why the idea of earning initiation and proving worth has a very real, deep-seated resonance for males.)

The general regulations of my fraternity state that only initiated brothers are permitted to wear our letters. There are, as I see it, two reasons for this. First, until the probationary member is initiated, he is not a brother and there remains the chance that he won't be initiated. Second, until he is initiated, he does not know what the letters mean; only those who know what they mean wear them.

And another questions I've asked before: why is wearing letters different from wearing or owning anything with the coat-of-arms? I've seen many say that their new members can certainly wear letters (sometimes suggesting that it's hazing not to allow them to do so), but that the coat-of-arms are reserved only for initiated members. What's the difference?

This isn't an issue about who's right and who's wrong -- it's simply about recognizing the different orgs do things in different ways. If allowing your new members to wear letters fits in with your understanding of the "preperatory" experience leading up to initiation, great! Go for it! But there's no need to assume that other orgs are wrong because they approach things differently.

Nope, just me ranting. :)

I agree.

Then again, the amount of restrictions and weight that has been placed on little pieces of fabric on a sweatshirt in the last 10 or so years is insane to me.

My main problem with the term "earn" is when, for example, you earn a paycheck, you are given money in return for completing certain tasks. Becoming a member of a GLO is almost always far more complex than that. Perhaps it is simply a matter of semantics, but just about every time some talks about "earning their letters" there seems to be an undercurrent of hazing.

The crest is reserved for initiated members because it is a symbol of a member who has gone through initiation. Circular, I know, but there you go.
The first day you accept your bid you have an idea of what the letters mean - an incomplete understanding, of course, but at least an elementary one. Through your new member education period you will come to know more, and of course at initiation all will be explained. The crest serves, as does the badge, as a symbol of a member who has completed their education and gone through, if you will, their graduation. Consider it a form of diploma!

This isn't true for every group - which I believe is why some NPCs don't allow pledges to wear letters.

I should write a disclaimer that my opinions are mine and mine alone, are not in any way ,shape or form official pronouncements from Gamma Phi, and are based only on my experience with Gamma Phi and not any other NPC or GLO. Your mileage may vary, tax, title and license not included.

I see your point, and I'm not so much arguing in favor of the word "earn" as noting that it can be used in a completely nonhazing context.

I actually don't think it's circular at all; it makes perfect sense to me. We just treat our letters the same way.

Not so with us, unless one wants to argue that anyone should have an idea of what our principles are by how we conduct ourselves.

It is so considered. :D

Just curious -- would you say that you earned your college diploma through study and hard work, or was it an unearned honor bestowed on you?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. :p

SWTXB writes well. She's published. She has a way with the pen!

It's amazing to me that when someone on here is articulate, the assumption is that they must have copied it from somewhere.

:rolleyes:

I don't think it's the fact that the post was articulate that prompted DSTCHAOS to ask that, it was the content of the post.

AS YOU WELL KNOW, MYSTIC CAT :p -Here's the difference - anyone who meets the entrance requirements can enter my alma mater. Meet the graduation requirements for a degree, and boom! You get what you earned.
If my degree were honorary, it would have been given to me in recognition of my fabulousness and would have not been earned in the conventional sense.
While anyone who meets the Panhellenic requirements can go through recruitment, receiving a bid is an honour bestowed because of a pnm's fabulousness (code for top-secret membership selection criteria).
If your GLO does it differently I don't mean to criticize - unless you equate "earning" with "hazing", in which case, YES I mean to criticize. (General "you", not you specifically, Mystic Cat). If I have learned nothing else on Greek Chat, I've learned that there is more than one way to skin a cat (!), and if it works for your GLO, more power to you.