Chances are, for a PNM who has already been on campus for a semester, a lot more is already known about her "character" than some lady who taught her in Sunday school can vouch for. Just sayin'.

FWIW, for the more recently colonized chapters at UofA, for instance, it is not necessarily easy for PNMs (instate, anyway) to find alums of those chapters who have known them forever, such that the alum can vouch for their "character," anyway.

I know girls have pledged these chapters with informational recs that were submitted by alums who did not know them well (even in fall formal rush). For spring recruitment, these recs would be better than not having a recommendation at all.

Not to get another argument going with you, Hart, but this is not true for us in Alabama. As I write this, you may be very surprised to know that we have 727 alumnae listed in the Birmingham area. I just checked the database. The latest state info I have is from May and there were 2,078 alumnae listed.

Just saying, we are around - people assume that since we've been gone from Alabama since 1978 that we've faded out. They forget that we have 4 other chapters in the state and people who move in.

Couldn't the same apply to a girl who knows/is known by many people on campus before she even starts school her first semester?

I really think at some point the rec is just checking a box. Yes, if the girl has a semester worth of grades, friendships and college activities, I can't see what good a rec will do. But the sad but truth is they are still required. Just because (IMO) it's a ridiculous, time consuming and unhelpful step, it is still necessary. Once you have joined a sorority, graduated and transitioned into alumnae membership and leadership, then you can start to work toward eliminating this step. But until then, you have to keep playing the game.

I am surprised to hear that there are that many alumnae in B’ham. I’m just responding from my POV of knowing PNMs here over the years (including my daughter) who gathered recs – alums of huge chapters from huge schools are more abundant, and happening to know an alum (well) from one of these chapters is more likely.

I’m not sure that the Bama chapter will have a huge impact on the alum numbers in B’ham in the very near future (I think 5 girls from the Birmingham Metro area combined pledged DG this year). But considering the alum numbers you quoted, you all can and should be making your presence known!

Apparently Alpha Phi alums are really difficult to locate here – I assume that this chapter understands and doesn’t view an informational rec in a negative light (I know several girls who pledged a few years ago without personally knowing an alum who could vouch for their "character").

It may be far easier for out-of-state PNMs to locate alums they know well for some of the newer chapters at Bama (Gamma Phi Beta included – which probably has far greater alum numbers in other states as compared to Alabama).

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Yes, it can. I'm sure plenty of PNMs have been dropped because they were known by girls in a chapter -- even with recs on file vouching for their "character."

I think I can comfortably say that we have at least one teacher in every OTM high school here - Mtn Brk, Vestavia, Oak Mtn, Hoover, Spain Park, Pelham, etc not to mention several other school systems and some who have taught in the past and know people in these schools or teach elsewhere int he school system.

What I found this past year is that the PNMs assume - and you know what happens when you do that! - there are few or none of us here. I had a mother contact me thru the alum web site asking for a rec as we are "new and don't have any alums here." I asked what school her daughter went to and where they lived. Turned out they knew 2 women they "assumed" were members of another group but were actually DGs. She had not asked a single one of the other alums who were doing recs for the daughter if they knew a DG. Poor networking.

Alpha Phi has a Birmingham/Tuscaloosa alumnae chapter:

http://bhamalphaphi.tripod.com

Also, using my current geography as an example, I'm in Southern California. We have just 2 collegiate chapters within a couple hours' drive. I went to my first alumnae meeting last weekend. The schools represented were Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Iowa Wesleyan, Nebraska, Texas State, UNLV, Sonoma State and San Diego State (and not a single member from the 2 local chapters). So in short, just because a region doesn't have a collegiate chapter doesn't mean there aren't alumnae. We live in a very mobile society! Network Network Network!

Exactly! My alumnae chapter has members from over 30 different college chapters, stretching from Florida to Washington state. Why would people think that just because a town/area doesn't have a college chapter that there are no alumnae?

I don’t think anyone would.

I was discussing locating an alum who knows the PNM well enough to write the type of recommendation that Titchou referred to as preferable in SEC recruitments, not to just locating any alum who can send along an info-only rec:

(emphasis mine)

Gathering this type of recommendation for such a large number of chapters may not be an issue in recruitments elsewhere, but locating several alums, from each of 17 chapters, who also personally know you, can be difficult and take quite a bit of time.

As with the Alpha Phi example -- even though an alum group exists in the B'ham/Tuscaloosa area, the number of those alums who personally know girls graduating from high schools in B'ham may be small. If the alum numbers are not abundant -- especially among women who may be connected to girls this age (like moms of high school girls) -- then PNMs may have difficulty locating an alum from that GLO who knows them personally.

Considering the task, I figure that the membership chairs at Alabama, for instance, receive a lot of info-only recs (which are certainly far preferable to no rec at all).

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Yikes! That could put the responsibility of upwards of 100 recs for some of those schools on one teacher (total -- written to chapters at various universities)! And considering the size of many of those schools, a single teacher would only have taught (and potentially personally know) probably 20% or less of those girls.

A number of teachers in my daughter's high school asked her if she planned to go through recruitment and offered to write a recommendation. I would be surprised if they did so to students they didn't know, however.

I think a lot of PNMs aren't really aware of how much time and networking this can involve -- especially if mom is not Greek. My observation has been that it is mostly the moms doing all the networking anyway. ;)

Have you all considered taking the game to the PNMs somewhat? If those alums were contacted and organized according to school district, then perhaps they could contact the potential (qualified) PNMs they know and offer to write recommendations. This might help get the word out about who the alums are in various communities.

Well, that's the function of an Alum PH. And we have one now in Bham and are having an event for high school seniors in March at Samford. Two sessions....AM and PM and will have reps from most of the colleges in Alabama. We have contacted all high schools in Birmingham and will be providing flyers,etc to each. We will have fashion shows, speakers on various topics (most if not all are current or former Council members of their NPC groups). So it should be very beneficial....no Rush Biddies needed. Come see us for free.

Yes, but according to their September 2012 newsletter, they only have 20 members in the cities of Birmingham and Tuscaloosa combined, and this is probably the only alumnae chapter in the state.

That helps explain why in-state PNMs have a difficult time locating Alpha Phi alums they know.

Terrific! I didn't know the PH group had finally come to fruition and gotten "off the ground" so to speak.

Thanks for the info -- that really is a win/win. Will this include info on locating alums in the various communities that can write personal recommendations (like a list or something?).

The Rush Biddies will probably want to set up a booth. :rolleyes: