How funny, when I saw the name I immediately assumed it was a mom and a Sigma Kappa. ;)

Excellent illustration. She maximized her options, they were just the wrong ones.

Dear OP:

Membership selection is confidential. We cannot tell you why your daughter/cousin/whoever did not get a bid. You have to understand that your daughter is ONE girl in a SEA of equally or "more qualified" (in the chapter's eyes) women who are all vying for the same spots. Maybe she got overlooked? Maybe she said something crazy on accident during rush parties? Maybe she didn't get cut b/c of her status? We don't know that. Also, I'd recommend reading the link in OTW's signature.

Given this scenario, I think you have your answer as to why she did not get a bid. She did not maximize her options. Perhaps if she had stuck with recruitment for the one group that invited her back to second rounds, she might have received a bid. We'll never know though.

In a realistic world here, no one can feel comfortable in all of the groups and feel they can be a part/fit into all of the groups to maximize their options. Sure she can go to all of the parties and try, but having 12 that she was "solidly interested" in was a very high percentage. From my experiences, young women usually are not that openminded and do not have an interest in that many groups.

Honestly, she would not have been an asset in one of those other grouops because she did not have the desire/compassion to join. That is one thing I always keep in mind.

Sorority life is a wonderful experience, but in all honesty it is not always about GPA, activities, philanthropy, and recs that help you to receive an invite. Enough said.

I do hope she finds peace now as the semester starts and maybe something will happen for her when she least expects.

rush as a sophomore
 

This year there were alot of sophomores going through rush at UGA - don't know how it compares to previous years, but there were easily over 100, maybe closer to 200. I know some who did pledge, so obviously it was not an impossibilitly. Again, this was a great group of girls overall, and I think that really impacts the liklihood of sophomore pledging. It has become so difficult to get into UGA, that few girls are released due to grades - there has to be other criteria, and I am sure class standing is one of the big things.

Oh, I liked living in the house...I did it for three years! I just came from a campus where 30-40 girls living in-house was the norm, and I was surprised to see "only 66"! I was thinking about the days when all thirty-something of us were hormonal and stressed out and then tried to multiply that by 2! But I also remember the nights we used to run out and 'borrow' fraternity composites, and we could have come up with some much more elaborate missions had we had double the numbers in-house...

Only if she stays the whole 4 years and doesn't drop out. If you have a lot of people burning out before their junior or senior year and terminating, the "we can get 4 years worth of dues" out of her really isn't a valid argument.

Not everyone is suited to communal living. You shouldn't have to give up your chance to be part of a sorority because of it.

And if I was a parent...I would much rather my daughter live in a place without archaic rules where she can do what she wants to without sneaking out or driving drunk...but that is another thread.

I disagree. She is a sophomore, which means she has been on campus long enough to know the stereotypes, "tiers", etc.

There is no way that there are SIX out of SEVENTEEN chapters that someone just "wouldn't fit into or feel comfortable in"

One or two, maybe, but six is ridiculous.

She basically ruined her chances the second rush started by placing a big red X on those six chapters.



Well if those chapters weren't good enough for her, I suppose it's a good thing she ruled those out early on so that those chapters could choose women who did want to be there that would make good members.

But if she's not going to maximize her options, there's no reason why everyone needs to be upset about her not receiving a bid. I can't guarantee that she would have received a bid to any of those houses, but it's a possibility, right? We'll never know b/c she ruled them out early on.

I can't count on all my fingers and toes the number of stories on here where women didn't get their "top choice" houses, and were somewhat disappointed on bid day, but then turned around their attitude and realized how wonderful this house was and how they wouldn't have it any other way.

I agree, but the caveat is that a PNM not feeling she would be comfortable in 6 chapters is outrageous...but it's not always outrageous that a PNM would not feel comfortable in 6 chapters (out of 17) based on how they presented themselves during rush. At my campus I think I could fit into the overwhelming majority of chapters (if not all of them), but during recruitment we all know of chapters that come off poorly despite their incredible group personality. Sometimes they act stressed, sometimes defeated, sometimes reeking of trying too hard, etc. That act will undoubtedly lead women astray about their true personality...after bid day, often these chapters will be some of the most fun and down to earth!

That's why I'd advise women (only at a competitive school where COB/COR opportunities are practically non-existent and often as competitive as the original formal recruitment) to accept any bid and roll with it for a few weeks. Often times a chapter will scare away PNMs based on poor recruiting skills (often fostered by an intense or negative recruitment chair or recruitment advisor) but in reality they are a very fun group of women.

^^ I agree that poor recruitment skills could be a factor in some cases, however, in this case, the OP said, and I quote:

Which means she made up her mind, without having attended a single recruitment party, which ones she felt were 'acceptable'. So in this case, the recruitment skills had nothing to do with it.

From my experience attending a competitive southern university, I went in as a student feeling/believing I could fit in any of the groups. In the small amount of time I attended recruitment, I knew there were several I did not feel comfortable in/with. Maybe that was due to my insecurities and maybe it was how they presented themselves to me during recruitment. I can't say for certain and I will never know the answer to that.

What I can say, as I continued to spend time at the university I did realize many groups would not be a fit for me. You learn that through several avenues while attending university during your first year. It is not hard for me to understand that someone does not see a fit for them in a handful of groups after attending one full year at a university.

I do feel for the young lady, but she made her choice and she will now deal with the consequences. I am just not so quick to judge that her choice was ridiculous and that she ruined her chances. I do not know all of the circumstances to make such a statement.

I do agree that, by her not maximizing her options, she left the door open for other young women to find a place in a sisterhood they may love.

We still don't have the whole story here. We do know that this PNM was cut by 11 of her 12 favorites after round 1. Did she go to round 2? Did she go to round 3? Did she try to give all the groups a chance and "get cut by all of them" before pref?

I might have some sympathy if this girl all chapters another chance and was cut from ALL chapters, but if she saw her list and decided none of those 6 were good enough for her, without giving them another chance, sorry, no sympathy from me.

Also, on certain campus' (and this may or may not apply to UGA) but if a girl is very vocal about how/why she doesn't like XYZ or thinks she is better than XYZ prior to going through recruitment- other sorority women could find out and this could be a huge negative factor towards the PNM.

I wasn't going to say anything since it does not matter at this point, but as long as we are being asked to come up with reasons why this recruitment situation did not work out, I have a comment and a question.

Comment- I was at UGA over 10 years ago for part of my undergrad experience, and so things might have changed- but while there are "tiers" at UGA, the fact is all of the sorority chapters there have a lot going for them and the majority are pretty stunning across the board. This is in contrast to most other southern schools I know where quality and stability can vary a great deal.

Point being, if daughter came into this not interested in 1/3 of the chapters- that sounds like coming into the process cutting certain chapters from the list based on them "not being good enough". At other schools, one might expect a person taking this approach to only want a few houses- but at Georgia to only want 2/3 of the houses seems like a "not good enough" play to me.

Question- There is something here that makes no sense to me and could shed light on this whole affair,

Based on the posts we have a PNM who sounds like a solid candidate on paper, who came from a Greek background (meaning parents/family members would have an idea what goes on and what rush entails), who has a lot of solid recs lined up and who went to UGA as a freshman. In other words, this is someone who would come into the rush process likely to be a lot more aware of how it works than many other PNMs.

So why wait to sophomore year to rush at a highly competitive campus? If this is really what the PNM wanted going into college, the most basic research would have quickly shown that rushing as a freshman was essential.

Snake is a Sigma Nu snake.
It's not my daughter, it's my goddaughter (fraternity brother's daughter, I have only sons, though, so I guess I treat her almost as mine)
War analogy was a little harsh, I apologize - I'm a guy, that's how we talk!

The 12 choices I referred to were for her first round of cuts, she received 10 return invites for Round 2 and went to all 10. Yes, I am sure that she had SOME preconceived notions as everyone does. I would even add that the sororities themselves have them, how else could the first couple of cut rounds be done with so little interaction? Seven sororities cut her after a ten minute conversation. Did they have a totally open mind, maximizing their options? Let's not condemn a PNM for what we support on the Sorority side.

I do believe that she went into things with an open mind. I will say that she was thrilled with the visits she had and felt welcomed at all houses as well. That is why only one invite back the next morning (3rd round) hit her so hard. She did gather herself up and go to that house on Saturday but was called Saturday night and released.

For those of you that asked, she did not rush as a freshman since both her Mom & Dad had pledged as Sophomores and had no problems (also at UGA but many moons ago). Their feeling was that you should get your feet on the ground and then rush. When she got to school, she did realize that it was a potential negative and she worked very hard to make sure that she did everything "right" this fall.

The system worked at the macro level. All you have to do is look at the hundreds/thousands of smiling faces this week in Athens. All I'm saying is that, from my perspective, a bias against upperclassmen might have played a significant part in this story and I was curious if that was true. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, I accept we will never know. I must say after reading some of the responses, however, that I would be careful to not blindly and unquestioningly support a system that is primarily defended by blaming and/or casting doubts about a fine young lady. Life is not fair but that doesn't mean we quit trying to make it fairer and better. For now that is not my fight, I have sons.

No, I have been planning on going to UGA for quite some time, I go to a small college in central GA. I went through rush, got the wrong impression and decided not to go on. I still remain friends with my GC group, a few others as well. The girls in my GC group recieved bids and are active in their sororities, the other girls in those sororities don't even care to say hello to me or strike up a conversation whenever I run into them. I know they don't have a commitment to, but these are the same girls that introduced themselves to me and were quite friendly. I don't think you just forget someone that easily. I didn't offend anyone because I decided to not go through rush. I didn't tell anyone that I had a bad impression, I said that things were too crazy at the moment and I would try again at another point. Thats when I started to get the feeling that perhaps they didn't want anything to do with me because I wasn't greek.

No one "supports" the fact that the sororities have so little time with the rushees. When you can come up with a better system to introduce 1000 women into groups that isn't 1) a random lottery or 2) doesn't take up the majority of their time for weeks and weeks, we'll be glad to listen.

Believe me, the women in the sororities are not having fun cutting rushees.

Honestly, the women in the sororities met lots and lots of girls during rush. Even at a smaller school, after so many faces they all start to blur. You can't remember everyone who goes through. I would urge you not to take it so personally.

AM I THE ONLY ONE TURNED OFF HERE
 

Since I am from up north, I felt a need to clarify something here. UGA sounds like a fun school but really, it is not the hardest or best school so to say that all of the sororities are amazing is a bit far fetched. We are not talking about Vandy or Vassar here. And since when did get a bid mean that you are better than....

Next, it is so silly to make others feel at fault for a popularity contest gone bad. The few minutes spent with a girl does not qualify anyone to judge whether they fit in. It is a very random, very power driven week in the life of a very impressionable 18 year old that can make them a few instant friends or help them start off college with a very bad taste in their mouths.

Last, girls you don't have to pay dues and go through this to have fun in college. you should do this because you actually like the process and want to be a part of it. it is like grad school....not required but can be good for some. so relax and take the money you saved and go do something else that makes you happy.

Wow ... are we feeling a bit anti-Greek today? From a midwestern perspective, I think that UGA just has a VERY competitive Greek scene. Simple supply and demand, there is just not enough opportunity for the large number of PNMs out there.

No one said that UGA's the best or the hardest. No one said that getting a bid makes you better than those who didn't.

Your "clarification" is unnecessary. You are dismissed.

If anything, we tend to try to tell PNMs who don't get bids that Greek Life ISN'T the most important part of college life. I don't recall anyone saying in this thread that those who do get bids are better than anyone.

ETA: Proof of that:

FYI

UGA 2008 Freshmen class:

Average GPA: 3.8
Average SAT score:1250 (verbal & math)
Average ACT: 27

Hope scholarship has changed UGA ALOT. Students who used to go to out of state private schools now go to UGA. It is very hard to get into.There are a lot of students who get into Vandy who don't get into UGA. And that is hard for me to say being as I am a Vandy grad. This, IMO, has nothing to do with sororities being "good" or not but I just coud not let that comment go by!

UGA is a public ivy like Texas.

One of the things I don't see mentioned about Sophomores and up is if a woman has already been so involved in campus, why don't some members already know who she is? Even at large schools, sorority members get familiar with non-Greek women through campus activities and organizations. A Sophomore may look to be very involved in a variety of groups on her resume, but maybe she's one of those who likes to join groups because of the way it makes her resume look but doesn't get involved at all or spreads herself too thin. Those are the kinds of people we don't need. Chances are, if you're active in those organizations, some of the sorority women are familiar with you. If not, we've got to wonder who you really are.

And those of you who think MS is a fun and easy experience at a strong Greek school are sadly misinformed. You have no idea how painful it is to have to cut a huge percentage of PNMs starting from the first round.

This is the situation of a girl I know who is rushing as a sophomore at UT next week, and frankly, I'm worried about her. It's competitive enough there, but to add in the fact that she's a sophomore who chose not to rush last year and, YIKES!

Last year, she decided not to rush because she's pre-med and didn't think she could handle the academics and greek life. She is now regretting it and wishing she had just gone ahead and rushed. She is going to make a go of it! Luckily, she has a number of friends in some houses, but still, the sophomore standing is going to be a strike.

I wish they allowed quota additions for upperclassmen. Back in my day at SMU, we were allowed to pledge 2 extra upperclassmen, it sure made for alot of happy gals who, for whatever reason, didn't rush 1st year:)

Yes, thank heavens we're not! Vassar? A UGA person would cut off their foot before they'd choose Vassar.

Weren't Fern and her roommates in Animal House from Vassar? :cool:

"Can we dance with your dates?" (couldn't resist)

haha JK! Really!!:):)

Thanks!

if uga is a public ivy, i am Francis Ford F***ing Coppola

Just wondering, are you in a Sorority? Not that you need to be in order to have an opinion, but words have more worth when you have some experience or evidence to back them up.

Although I agree with you that you do not need to go Greek to have a fulfilling and fun college career, there are many that are members and who really enjoy their experiences during and after college, and to judge them is unfair.

Yes, rush is difficult on many levels. I do understand the heartbreak (if you ever care to hear my story I would love to share it). But girls go into it being told that there are no guarantees and therefore they need to be prepared for the possibility of not being offered a bid.

As far as who gives someone the right to judge others based on a 10-minute conversation - I'd say that anyone who has say in who gets into an organization, job, etc., has the right. The criteria may change (and face it, even in jobs, people are judged on seemingly superficial things when you have to choose one person over another - or hundreds). I suggest that if you are going to bash a process, at least back it up with some evidence. Otherwise, you just come off sounding bitter and ignorant.

PS before you bash me, please look up the definition for ignorant.

Bottom-tier from....New Jersey County Tech at Newark, I would guess.

To the OP
 

OP,

I'm not blaming the young women for choosing poorly certainly, but it's possible that the scenario described earlier in the thread did play out a little bit for her.

If she got most of the twelve that she wanted at the end of round one and she is like most PNMs, it may be the case that these were the absolutely most selective chapters who are probably least likely to take many sophomores. Had she instead gone back to her bottom five for second round and these were less selective chapters (for lack of a better way of expressing it), it's possible that she would have ended up with a bid.

Carnation, who I haven't seen posting but who is kind of an SEC rush expert, has noticed that at UGA it's much better to be cut hard after first round because then there's a good chance you can stick with some of your remaining chapters all the way through. If instead you are in a position to "cut" chapters after first, but then are cut hard yourself after second, you have nowhere to go.

This may have been a little bit what happened to your goddaughter.

There may be some COB opportunities, and if she's a real glutton for recruitment punishment, when UGA released the bid lists last year, there were even a couple of juniors on it last year.

I didn't you know you made films. ;)

Public Ivy may be pushing it, but it is much harder to get into these days than most people realize. (Although I admit that SAT score looked lower than I was expecting. Most of the kids I see getting in have SATS in the 1300s and 1400s.)

I've even know a couple of kids who got into Tech who didn't get into UGA. Weird I know.

But the scenario you described is clearly NOT what happened. At UGA you can attend a maximum of 12 parties for round 2. This girl attended 10. This means that 7 groups released HER and SHE did not cut any groups. Where these houses that she visited fell within her rankings we don't know, but it doesn't really matter if they were her top choices or her bottom choices. SHE DID NOT CUT ANY SORORITIES. She attended every party that she was invited to during the week and was released from every house. We do not know the reason why she went bidless, but we know that it was NOT because she didn't maximize her options.

Thank you. I thought you could go back to 12, but I didn't read carefully enough to see she was only invited back to 10. I was thinking that she only liked 10 of the twelve.

I didn't mean to suggest that she didn't maximize anyway, though, since even if she was in the position to cut after first, she still would have maximized by attending as many parties as she could.

You are right though, my "explanation" is meaningless if she only got 10 invites..

Also, if she was invited back to ten, we can pretty much dismiss that she was deliberately singled out to be cut.

Regarding people who get into Tech but not into Georgia, it usually has to do with GPA. At UGA, except for AP (or maybe IB) courses, there is no boosting of GPA for honors or gifted courses - at Tech, anything below an A is boosted 1/2 point.

To the OP- thank you for coming back and offering more info. As you can see, there are clearer answers now- and my nagging concerns have certainly been explained, plus those of others.

And it is good to have this thread here since it brings out a lot of good points. I did not realize her parents had rushed as sophomores at UGA years ago with no trouble. And waiting a year certainly has advantages. We reading here can never know if waiting a year is what really hurt her, but this story will hopefully help guide some others.

Recruitment at UGA can be brutal. I had a good friend who waited until sophomore year for valid personal reasons which would not have- in and of themselves- affected her suitability for sorority life. And she had one house she really wanted to go- and they wanted her. She was close with many members she had known since high school, had a legacy connection and interacted with many of the members through a church group we all belonged to.

She suicided on her bid card and mismatched even though there was every reason to believe this was a no-brainer (and this is not just what she told me, I personally observed her closeness with members of this sorority.) Who knows what happened, but it did. As devastated as she was at first, she eventually was fine and continued being close with her friends there.

Best wishes to your goddaughter. There is a lot of fun to be had at UGA and the talented young lady you describe will surely have a great college experience.