Elina and Annaleigh are my favs so far...let's see how much they change after makeovers.

During ANTM commerical breaks, Whitney appeared in a commercial for a local dentist here in Jax

I could never see Cover Girl using Isis in an ad. Isis took some good photos, but she looks like a cracked out homeless person in person.

Clark is a beotch.

The bi girl (Elina?) is beautiful but her looks just creeps me out for some reason.

Count me as someone not cheering for Isis. What was up with the huge a** earrings she/he wore last night?

Elina reminds me of Angelina Jolie during her 'dark days'.

Lauren Brie is an ASA from Radford. There's a good possibilty I met her at last year's District Days, since Radford is in my district. I think that settles who I'm rooting for.:D

What was up with all the compliments from the judges for Isis. They said nothing bad about her?!? Are we in for another "predetermined" winner?

Bjork?

Seriously. Everyone else they love to criticize for how they look at panel, why not shim?

Maybe to throw us off? There's no way he'll win. Can you imagine him trying to book a job with CoverGirl? Or changing backstage at a couture fashion show? The judges are smart. I bet they've thought of all of this. I hate to say it, but I bet Isis is like a "token" of furthered diversity in the competition. My prediction is Sheena. They've never had an Asian winner before so I'm thinking, with as much as Tyra loves her Kimora resemblance, it'll be her.

I dont see why there is a problem? Modeling is about appearances... if she doesn't appear to be a man, then she will work for couture and Covergirl.

I know that all the models have been female, but does it say in the contract that the contestants have to be female? Males are models as well.

Ok seriously, what exactly is wrong with Marjorie? My cousin and I just looked at each other like :confused:

I liked Marjorie, because its day one, and she is already working with herself to truly become ANTM. It is clear she is trying right off the bat without being over confident (clearly) or just there to party and meet Tyra. She wants it but does not act like she already has it. It is refreshing

^^^I feel some kinda way about Marjorie. She doesn't have the self-confidence that I'd like her to have, but I do like her. Highlight to see the semi-spoiler: I saw a spoiler site posted by a girl in Amsterdam (where they go abroad). This girl says she saw the top 5 being photographed and Isis, Marjorie, Sheena, McKey and an unidentifiable 5th girl were there). I don't know how much stock to put in that, but I do like Marjorie and Sheena a lot so I hope it's true!


Taken from the Eligibility Requirements on CW.com:http://cwtv.com/images/topmodel/antm...ligibility.pdf


7. You must be female and 18 to 27 years of age at the time of application.

I was really upset when Saleisha caught all that flack and she had done nothing wrong (I really liked her and rooted for her all the way). I think that if all that hullabuloo hadn't happened, I wouldn't care so much.

Ahhh good to know. I guess to ANTM "female" is a loose term.

I'm surprised they have the "to 27" part, especially knowing that anyone older than 21 is considered "old." That is just setting up those girls for heartbreak when they are told they are too old to be a model.

I think ANTM recruited her (Isis), and I am sure they will say: define Female... Listen, she walks like a female, talks like a female, in pictures, she comes off as female. Saleisha shouldn't of got all that flack, but it was from the other models, who are catty and in it to win it. Isis will get the same if not more flack. Its sad, but the nature of human's in competition.

Oh, she got flack on a national level, too. It was on talk shows, wiki, even youtube users dedicating their channels to "Scandaleisha" or whatnot. I hope she hasn't seen/heard half of what's been said because the haters are abundant. Though, I don't doubt Isis will get more...definitely more. I find it hard to muster the same sympathy as he shouldn't even be there...however, hearing what all those hateful girls said in the house and at the shoot did make me angry and very sad for Isis. That was certainly uncalled for.

OK, I guess people didn't get when I said "rooting for the tranny" I was joking. It would just point out how silly and scripted the competition has become if she DID win.

Isis is a pre-op, right?
I don't have anything against people who have undergone sexual reassignment surgery, but I would think that in order to be considered "female", she'd have to be post-op.

I never really watch ANTM, but I will until Lauren gets eliminated.

I really liked Sheena too. She's got her work cut out for her...can you see her doing the commericial? YIKES! I think Analeigh and Elina are beautiful. HATE Marjorie.

In other news, did anyone elses heart flutter when Nigel jumped out of the box? That man looks finer every cycle.:D

*shyly raises a hand*

I think Marjorie looks like a femal Steve Martin. Even her facial expressions. It's creepy.

Many pageant applications stipulate that the contestant must be a "natural born female". Therein may lie the difference.

.....Kelly :)

Isis- I don't think she will win, mainly because, as someone brought up earlier, Covergirl. Honestly, we live in a society where transgender, homosexuality are still "taboo" topics. I have a feeling that Covergirl won't want to be associated with a transgender (pre-op) "female". Now, if Isis were post-op I think it would be a whole different story.

Saliesha- What flack was she getting? How did I miss this?

I honestly don't know who I think will win. I can say that I really don't like Clark. I'm definately looking forward to the makeovers. Should we start taking bets on who will cry?

I also think if it was a different, edgier cosmetics company it might be a different story - for example MAC has already used RuPaul as a model. But CG is trying to appeal to middle America.

Re Saleisha, here's wiki:

Since Stowers's win, there has been controversy regarding her eligibility to appear on the show. The show's rules state that a contestant must not have appeared as a model in a national advertising campaign during the last five years. Stowers appeared in a 2006 commercial for Wendy's. There is debate among viewers of the show over whether the commercial for Wendy's could be considered an advertising campaign, which would make Stowers ineligible to compete in America's Next Top Model. The CW said in a statement that Stowers did disclose her participation in the Wendy's spot, and "after reviewing the commercial, it was determined that her appearance did not amount to "modeling" experience, and therefore did not exclude her from participating in the show". Several blogs and news outlets have speculated that her past relationship with Banks (her participation in Banks' T-Zone camp and her past appearances on Tyra's television shows and her appearance as a model on The Tyra Banks Show and Cycle 6 of America's Next Top Model), may have influenced the selection of the winner. Saleisha has also been a National Spokesmodel for Especially Yours wigs for more than a year before the show ran as well as appearing in an episode of the hit US sitcom Ugly Betty.

Honestly I think people were far more upset about her associations w/ Tyra than the Wendy's ad.

Isis also appeared as a model on ANTM previously and they've been open about it (which may be why no one cares--they didn't hide it this time). I was taken aback when I found out how much Saleisha had done for Tyra, but none of it was blatantly against the rules like Isis' gender is. IMO, if Isis wants a career as a transgender model then let him go for it. But I just don't think it's fair for him to be in a competition when his gender makes him ineligible. I'm excited to see how it all plays out, though. The only upside to being sick is I no longer have to work tomorrow night, so I'll be home to watch. :D

The Wendy's campaign was what was debatedly against the written rules, not the modeling for Tyra & appearing on her shows. The two things taken together were what made people think something was fishy.

Regarding all the gender comments, as recognized by many state laws and by psychological associations, transgendered people are the defined by the gender they identify with. Isis would not get in trouble for using a women's restroom or for checking "female" on government documents. Sometimes this requires a diagnosis of gender identity disorder or what have you but not always.

As long as the rules don't specify "natural born female" there's nothing illicit about her entry, and since the whole thing's been open, clearly the show made the decision when they allowed her on.

"Shim" comments are rather offensive. Seriously, Isis is a "she" whether or not she can ever afford an operation. Calling her a "him" or a he/she is as sensible as saying a gay person must really be straight because you say so. You know she's transgender, why go out of your way to deny it?

If it helps for clarity, if given the option, she might check male as "biological sex" but female as "gender."

OK so I love that Sheena's nice and has an understanding personality. She's in my top 5, but my top two are definitely Hannah and Analeigh.

OMG SHEENA. STOP IT WITH THE FAKE HARLEM ACCENT.

I'm not sure if I have any favorites yet.

You know I normally agree with you, but it's not a matter of anyone's "say so." If we're going to talk about mental states, then those are things that are subjective until physical proof comes into play. (I couldn't possibly know a man's orientation so I'd have to take his word for it, but if I caught him jacking off with a Playboy...) Isis, however, may say/think/feel he is a woman but the fact is that he has a penis and a Y chromosome--a perpetual longing to be female complete with matching mental state will not change that. If anything, looking at a man and calling him a her just because he's cross-dressing is denial of fact to me. Perhaps I'm in denial of his wishes, but as he's not an acquaintance whose wishes I must honor, I'll call it like I see it. My 23 cents.

So if you have a Y chromosome but no penis, is that male enough? Are eunuchs men? Are women born without functioning vaginas really women? What if you have XXY? Are you both? If you're born with intersexed genitalia do you get to choose! I'm sure glad you're setting the standards for gender for the world!

Seriously, it's the equivalent of me saying that you don't dress/look/act like my standard of a woman therefore you must be a man. And I thought we got past that a loooooong time ago. You're in denial of psychology and accepted standard medical practice not just her wishes.

Men and women who are diagnosed with GID aren't just cross-dressing, in fact living as the opposite sex is one of the three major parts of triadic therapy, hormones and surgery being the other two. Isis alluded to being on hormones. She may never get or be able to afford the surgery, this does not make her any less of a woman.

So, according to you, it isn't scientists over the centuries who have crafted definitions of male and female based on the qualities of reproductive systems and genetic make-up...I'm the one who made all that up and decided that's how it is. I'm flattered at how much stock you put in my opinions, but you're giving me a tad more credit than I deserve. :) And not only have you deemed a stranger's posts on a message board "standards of gender for the world," but now you've given Isis diagnosis of GID (alluding to psychopathology) because...why exactly? Because you looked at the set standards of GID and determined that Isis fit the criteria? Or is it so because you "say so?" :rolleyes: Either way, my thoughts are my thoughts and do not effect Isis personally nor do they cause any degree of devastation to humanity. It's really not quite the crisis situation you make it out to be. If you disagree then disagree, but you needn't get this worked up over a forum and a tv show. ;)

Anyway, I missed the first 20 minutes of the show. Can someone fill me in on the challenge and what led to Hanna being called "racist?" I'm surprised that Tyra chose to commend Sheena on coming back to tell the truth in judging rather than flaming her for lying in the first place--not sure most people would've done that, but it was an insightful move considering she already knew the truth. And :eek::eek::eek: at Nikeysha's inability to stop talking!

Hanna is uncomfortable with Isis, because the tranny thing makes her feel awkward. Well all the girls were in the hot tub, and as Isis was dancing in the middle, she started to get up on Hanna. This made Hanna uncomfortable, so Hanna pushed Isis away.

Later, Geena and Brittany were discussing it with Hanna. Hanna said "well, I am the typical white girl, I am quite and stay to myself etc..." (total paraphrase). This offended Brittany and Geena as they saw it racist...

hence the town hall meeting...

ANYWHO, I don't think Hanna was being a racist, i think she just TOTALLY said the wrong things. She feels different then Brittany and Geena, and she relied on stereotype in order to express who she is. Yes, VERY stupid on Hannah's part and rather ignorant, the comment was racist, but I dont think it was a reflection of Hannah being racists as much as she is ignorant... but Brittany and Geena totally inflammed the situation by making it seem like it was more then it was to Nikeysha and Joslyn, shouting on racism and discrimination. Hannah didn't discriminate at all, so that was a stretch.

Thank you for the completely gratuitous shot of Nigel!:D

No you're the one lagging behindthe scientists and deciding that you're right and they're wrong. No, I'm really not.
Where did I say that Isis has GID? I said she might have such a diagnosis, and I said she is transgender... I described a typical course of treatment for men and women with GID. I don't have enough information to diagnose her, though at a cursory glance she's a good candidate.
I'm not the one deciding that no matter what psychological and medical standards are, 'I'm right because my way doesn't squick me out.'
Your thoughts are your thoughts. Your comments are insensitve and offensive to people who are transgendered. Discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity exist and you're part of it. Imagine saying "my thoughts are my thoughts and Tyra Banks isn't offended because I made a racially insensitive remark." Tyra (nor Isis) is not the one who'll be offended.

And, bless your heart, if you think I'm worked up you should probably get out more.

^^^Those are your opinions and I respect your right to have them. With that being said, this conversation is over. Back to our regularly scheduled thread.


I saw the ep again on Youtube and I totally agree. I think that Hanna has a horrible habit of putting her foot in her mouth. She wasn't discriminating against anyone, but she didn't know how else to describe herself other than using phrases that were totally inappropriate. I felt almost bad for her as she just dug the hole deeper (and the other girls pulling the race card on her didn't help). "Are you prejudiced/racist?" What kind of answer did they expect to a question like that? "Um, of course I am, didn't you know?" :rolleyes:

However, I did catch the part just afterward when Hannah said "This is like being gang raped" and that was NOT okay with me. :mad: She said it very quickly, but I can't believe she actually compared a snipe attack of some overly hype girls to something that extreme. I think she just needs to understand that certain comparisons and metaphors are not okay to use because of how others will perceive them, no matter how hard you are trying to get your point across. She won't learn that until she gets her butt kicked in only a way that life can.