haha...hey Jon. :)

But, when you've got Rezko and Rev. Wright, who needs AKA? (and how can you say that Republicans dug those up? They were pretty public, longstanding relationships. It would sort be be like saying Democrats dug up McCain's friendship with Lieberman. What?)

What you've mentioned and honorary membership in AKA aren't comparable. I really doubt AKA honorary membership ever becomes an issue.

ETA: Fundamentally, AKA membership will be regarded as a positive. The work it would take to make it look bad because of hazing issues, was it? would also end up slandering basically every GLO and risk alienating anyone with Greek membership. I try not to underestimate the stupidity of any political party, but I just don't think it's going to be spun into a problem.

Seems as if some of the major papers are running a few of them on this subject:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dc/20...om_melody.html
Which includes this:
"The induction of the wife of Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic Party presidential nominee, will not take place during this week's convention, McKinzie said. Details have not yet been set."

Morning to you as well Senusret I;):D
All I was doing was answering that posters comment. Nothing more or less.;)
And while the blog maybe dated the 14th or so, it is in todays NY Times. Take a look at the upper left corner of story.
Back to the future:p:D

RE: Hubert Humphrey and Tau Delta Phi. The fraternity's chapter at University of Minnesota closed in 1950. Humphrey was elected mayor in 1945 and to Congress in 1948, so it is likely he was made an honorary member sometime between 1945 and 1950.

Oh good grief. It was a hypothetical.

We don't know and neither do you.

That same blog has been posted and discussed for the past 2 days. It's just a repeat of everything we already know, including the quote that sparked the current discussion of what honorary membership means. That's why you were late. :)

Thank you! I'll follow up with this info.

Next time I meet with the NYT's board, I will bring it up:p:D
Thanks.

The point i was making was that they can continue to question his affiliations as they have been doing this election. Of course Rezko and Rev Wright are more questionable, but digging up a hazing incident from way back when can show this so called "Lack of Judgment" that Obama has and a pattern of questionable affiliations

I wasnt trying to say the repubs dug those up, but it wouldnt surprise me if the repubs dug up those old hazing incidents and tried to link his campaign with it

Folks are already speculating about it right here

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dc/20...om_melody.html

Could you point out for us just where in the Washington Post blog is there even a mention or speculation about hazing?
Or are you pointing out the comment section of it?
And if so, you should read the comments in the NYT's blog as well. Sort of the same, just better written. Or is it written better?

Yes, im talking about the comments section, which is why i said FOLKS are speculating about it

And the FOLKS, are the ones who are going to the voting polls in November

*written better

Your POV may be right, may be correct.
In MVHO/POV, many times the "folks" that write into the comment sections of stories and blogs are even worse than some of the trolls we get here in GC. Thus take a great deal of it with a large grain of salt.

From the comments section:

"If AKA is so inclusive and by virtue of their tax status MUST NOT be biased for or against a particular party, I must ask, did AKA extend the same honorary invitation to Cindy McCain? Also isnt AKA the sorority where two young women lost their lives to hazing? As I write anohter young woman is recuperating from disabling injuries due to hazing by AKAs. Lets all write Obama and ask why Michelle Obama is willing to join this elitist exclusionary group whose members were featured in Mink coats as a form of status."

Posted by: Rita | July 14, 2008 9:05 PM

Why did you post this woman's "under"educated drivel here? She is an example of someone who thinks she knows everything about what she speaks...only she only knows some or part of it. Go back and read the comments from members of the NPHC which address everything in her "under"educated comments. I have to say my D9 brothers and sisters handle her quite well.

Or ask direct questions, if the answers are what you seek.

Because, as should have been obvious from the way that I quoted Jon in my post before quoting the drivel, I wasn't giving any credence to the drivel, nor was I asking any questions or seeking information. I was responding to Jon's specific question:

While i agree with what you are saying, you have to remember, she and others who have those opinions are the folks who are going to the voting poll

It may not be right, but it is what people will begin to perceive. Nov. 5th, AKA shoulda inducted her into their sorority. I sincerely hope it doesnt cause problems in the media, however, folks will form their opinions about this issue

I figured thats why you quoted his question

^^^^^^^^While I truly do understand all of the above postings, just wish to point out that my question was originally about the hazing comment that was made. And that part while never answered was perhaps just perhaps corrected.
And my guestion about location of comment was also answered by the OP.

I agree with you also...should've waited until after the election. Some people are just waiting for a reason (even a small one) to not vote for Obama.

The sad part is that all of these "opinions" may be out there for nothing since Michelle will likely not become a member if she is insisting on "non-exclusive" membership.

Tru Indeed. I hate the fact that people look for the smallest things in order to not vote for him. Silly. Just say, "Well, i dont like N*****'s"

But we have to see what she meant by the non-exclusive comment. She may have just meant that she would like to work with us all. Maybe her spokesperson said it wrong. But all in all, Greeks are wondering about it, so damage control needs to come quick

Hmmm....

Question - would other NPHC groups be upset if she accepted AKA? Have any others extended an invitation?

I've noticed that some NPHC members (and it's here on GC, so they may just be perps, I realize) are willing to insult other Divine Nine orgs in a way NPC group members would almost never do - and so I'm wondering if Michelle accepting the AKA invitation would lead to hard feelings among the others, or if they would all welcome her as a member of the larger D9?

She is welcomed a member of the D9

Michelle has said it herself, she wants to work with all orgs to do service and good. That is great by me

So if she does accept, i think it would be nice for her to work with all of us on a large scale. As First Lady, she can publicize us more than what we can on our own and show that we do serve a purpose and we do fulfill it, no matter or petty trifles

I don't see what you mean really. No NPHC org has insulted another NPHC org on GC that I've seen unless you're talking about the times certain members (who are usually not GC regulars and may also be perps) say things and in that case, the GC regulars will usually unite and take 'em down. As far as Michelle becoming an AKA, no NPHC member on GC that I've seen has a problem with this. Outside of GC there are all kinds of things being said, but again I'm sure that perps are responsible for some of it. Overall, I don't think anyone has a problem with her becoming an AKA. If AKA got to her first, the others (if they even planned to ask her) were too slow and that's just how it goes. We all work and socialize together so at the alumnae level at least, there isn't all this "rivalry" that people like to talk about. If Michelle becomes a member of AKA, we will all welcome her into the D9. In fact, members from all D9 organizations were present this week when AKA announced that Michelle would accept the invitation to join.

I would direct your attention to the recent Sheryl Underwood thread for an example of what I am talking about(!) (and yes, I noticed that the dirt was NOT coming from GC regular Zetas) I've also noticed before - (and if I get more time, I'll try and look up examples) one member will accuse another GLO of being formed from rejects of their GLO, they have disputed the circumstances of their founding and argued that their group is more philanthropically active, insult another group as being or not being linked with another, etc. It's interesting that you note that this rivalry is talked about. I wonder where the perception is coming from, and why. It's intriguing from a PR perspective. I think Michelle's possible membership - especially if she really is active with all of the groups - could go a long way to counter it.

My experience with D9 is limited, so I honestly didn't know if this is just internet trash-talking, or if there is indeed animosity between some of the groups. I'm glad to learn that the groups do work together, and that any discussion of "rivalry" is overblown and without foundation.

The fact that there is even a discussion of whether or not Michelle should accept made me wonder. I hope she does go through with it, because win, lose, or draw, I think she will be in a postion to do a lot of good for all of the groups, and focus some media attention on all of the positive things the D9 is doing for their members and their communities.

You're right. I was going to point this out. You beat me to it. :p

The "trash talk" usually is at the undergrad level. Sometimes it spills over into the grad / alumnae level.


You have to understand the perception and history behind the cultural significance of joining a D9 org. It's not just joining a GLO, for many it also establishes rank and status in the Black community. Historically, that is how it has been perceived.

You can look up all the examples you like but I doubt you'll find insults coming from GC regulars unless people have problems with eachother as individuals. As for anyone else, they could be a perp or a young or immature member. If you had more experience being around the D9 as an undergrad, you might've noticed that some undergrads take the whole "rivalry" thing (which is supposed to be in fun) too far and too seriously. I can't relate to that though. On my undergrad campus, we were one big (although sometimes disfunctional) family. On the alumnae level (and by the way, in some orgs most active members are alumnae, not undergrads), we all work together and get along just fine...but then most are also much more mature at this point. Overall, members are just very passionate about their orgs and unfortunately not everyone expresses themselves in the best manner.

As for Michelle Obama, I think some are up in arms about her spokesperson saying that she will only accept if she has "non-exclusive membership." We're not real sure right now about what she means exactly or if her spokesperson got it wrong. In the D9, there is no such thing as "non-exclusive membership" since you can only belong to one org. Some people have interpreted her as wanting AKA to make an exception for her or something but I don't believe that's the case. People are just emotional at the moment.

You mean, the same way it's perceived in the white community, right?

Or at least, certain regions of white communities.

Yeah, those are the usual "rivalry" comments which more often come from younger members. This has to do with our histories and the fact that we know eachother's basic histories. We're actually closer than I suspect the NPC is since there are only 9 in the NPHC and some of our members act like siblings that can't stop teasing one another: "I'm the older one, No I'm the older one" and so on and so forth. It can be funny and sometimes it's not so funny. It usually comes with experience and maturity that members realize that we are all equally great.

I did not grow up in a white community in terms of knowing exactly how they perceive cultural standing and what is and is not significant. I said that to say that while yes, I did grow up in a white neighborhood, attended white schools and had white friends, I never picked up on the intimate social nuances that are in the white community because I am not white nor are my family members.

I only speak from a Black perspective because that is how I grew up.

But, if it is the same in the white community, then I guess so.

Thanks for the information. GC has been great for learning about D9.

PLEASE!!!! Don't take what you get from GC as the *only way* the D9 is!!!!

If you have an opportunity to interact with D9 orgs within your own community I would urge you to do so.

i bet she's in set right now.

Well, Cindy McCain is a Theta. I suppose if anyone wanted to they could probably dig up something.

I'm not honestly trying to encourage that, but I don't think anyone can really sully Michelle Obama because of AKA membership without similarly taking down other GLOs. Is there a group among us with a scandal, hazing or otherwise?

Was the article by the AKA about the elitism she didn't care for in the Centennial Celebration published in the same paper as those comments? I guess you could find it through googling, but I'm just amazed to see the mink coat elitism trotted out.

And elitism just strikes me as weird attack on Michelle Obama if the figure to compare her with is Cindy McCain, not that I don't admire them both to some degree.

ETA: I'm not busting on Theta with my elitism and Cindy McCain comment. I'm thinking of her basically growing up an extremely wealthy heiress.

As I have posted elsewhere, I'd love to have more interaction, but any and all invitations to D9 groups to do projects with the alumnae groups I am active with have been refused. It was explained to me that D9 have very specific goals in terms of philanthropy, and if a project is not perceived as meeting those goals the chapter will not be interested. However, it has meant that we really have no personal interaction with D9, which I lament.

I am very careful to whom I attribute standing in regards to information about D9, or any other GLO, here on GC. There are those I trust, and those who I wouldn't if they tried to tell me the sky was blue. :rolleyes: GC has been informative in letting me know the way D9 groups operate. It's easy to assume that all GLOs operate the way in which your group does, and I think it is important to realize that not all groups operate the same way.

I asked my initial question because I didn't want to give credence to some of the more outrageous "trash talking",(and that's why I'm not going to post examples - why give it any more space?) and it turns out I was right to be suspicious. I also was sincere in wondering why there was any debate about Michelle accepting AKA - it would seem to me to be a good thing for all D9 groups.

Follow-up question - do D9 groups have the equivalent of our NPC Alumnae Panhellenic groups?

Yup, that's what I was referring to really when I said we work and socialize together at the alumnae level. The NPHC Alumnae chapters usually represent cities: ex. Philadelphia NPHC, Atlanta NPHC, etc. These chapters consist of delegates from all the local Alumnae chapters that wish to participate.

I have never heard of any NPC alumnae panhellenic events nor has the local NPHC alum chapter done a joint program with the NPC alumnae panhellenic.

However, in addition to the various events that the NPHC orgs advertise seperately, the local NPHC alum chapter releases its calendar and publicizes its events.

Sometimes it is just playing the dozens and "jonin'". Most of us don't really have any ill will or negativity against other organizations. How people feel about individual members is their business.

Idunno. You say "almost never" but I think it's moreso passive aggressiveness on many of you all's parts. I read threads on GC and wish that people would sometimes just say what they mean and mean what they say. Afterall, the Private Message Culture on GC is active and some of you all are saying stuff off the board. But, some of you obviously try way too hard to play nice on the boards so people can think highly of you and your org and/or a thread won't get closed. Then we have "those" threads that people call trainwrecks because the NPC and IFC(?) orgs are going at it in some way--over ranking or however you all dress it up.

I think the whole thing hinges on what "non-exclusive" means. If Michelle just meant she'd like to participate in the philanthropic activities of all the D9 orgs, then it seems like that is encouraged anyway. However, if she meant she wants to be initiated into all the groups so as not to be exclusionary, then she may end up not being initiated.

I am not advocating the next idea, just pointing it out. There are some people on the far left or other political groups who have a very negative opinion of Greek orgs. My boyfriend is one and he constantly calls me out for "exclusionary practices," just like the woman in that comment for the Washington Post did. They view Greek orgs as inherently elitist... which hey, I can't really argue with. So there's a possibility that this might be a problem, although I really don't think this is going to get that much media play to become one.

In general I think the D9 has a much stronger community reputation than NIC/NPC. I don't really think much can be made of any hazing stuff with AKA.

re: Elephant Walk's comments about the "white community," or the white community in certain regions, I do not think the importance of particular NIC/NPC orgs for people's social status can in ANY WAY be compared to the ties that D9 orgs have to the social status in the black community. It's true that in the south, or in a particular state, college freshmen of a certain background may want to join certain orgs. But these statuses are in NO way as universal from region or region or as well-established as those in the D9. I believe there is some analog, but not as much as you're trying to draw.

Well, one of the things that I think is different is that NPHCs seem to have national reputations, types (or stereotypes) while NPC or IFC groups generally usually just have campus level reputations, types (or stereotypes).

So it while some joking around or trash talking about D9 groups' images could be understood on a national level, with NPC or IFCs, you could only do it with people from your campus.

( I know that some people really do like to think that their NPC groups or IFC groups are stronger nationally than others, and they may be, but they don't have an image that is particularly distinct from other strong or elite groups. How is Kappa's image different than Theta's, for example, on a national level? Or Chi Omega's different than Pi Beta Phi's? But I think the average NPHC member could explain how AKA's image is different than DST or Alpha Phi Alpha image is different than Omega Psi Phi.)

ETA: and I think this ties in with Breathesgelatin's point too. There's not a "white" equivalent, exactly, to having membership in one NPHC.