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Found it:
KA suspended at two other schools Eric Finley and Megan Middleton Staff Writers Published February 22nd 2001 Kappa Alpha Order fraternities at Arkansas Tech University and Southwestern University, chapters of the same national organization suspended from NT Feb. 2, were both suspended for five years this week for conduct unbecoming their universities. Southwestern University in Georgetown suspended its Kappa Alpha chapter on Monday, citing violations of safety, alcohol, and personal conduct as well as verbal and physical abuse. A statement released by SWU President Jake Schrum said at least two members of the fraternity allegedly used racial slurs. Arkansas Tech's suspension against its Kappa Alpha chapter was handed down Wednesday, following a six-month investigation by the school into the fraternity. The school listed many of the same reasons as SWU, including threats, intimidation and harassment of students, as well as disorderly conduct. A statement released by Arkansas Tech made no mention of usage of racial slurs, however. The school also placed Sigma Phi Epsilon on probation for a year. The suspensions come just three weeks after outrage over similar allegations against Kappa Alpha rocked NT. The suspensions given by Arkansas Tech and SWU are similar to the five-year death penalty handed down by NT against Kappa Alpha. Although all three suspensions have come within a month, representatives from both Arkansas Tech and SWU called the timing coincidental. "The difference between our situation and the one at UNT is that this results from a progressive series of violations against students and against our school handbook," SWU spokesperson Eric Van Danen said. "It's very specific to Southwestern. It is similar to the suspension handed down [by NT] because the members are required to move out of their house and petition the university to return in five years." Susie Nickelson, a spokesperson for Arkansas Tech, said that although university officials were aware of NT's situation, it had little impact on Arkansas Tech's decision. "The sanctions at UNT took place about the same time there was another incident involving Kappa Alpha here," Nickelson said. "But I don't believe that would have an effect on the university's ruling. The timing of it was purely a coincidence." Roddy Wolper, director of news and information at NT, said to his knowledge there was no contact between the three universities about the Kappa Alpha fraternities. Wolper also said troubles with Kappa Alpha by other fraternities did not affect NT's decision. "We had clear cause to take the actions that we did based on what we found in the investigation," Wolper said. "We had to make our decision based on what happened at UNT." The three incidents do have similarities in the charges, however. All three schools cited Kappa Alpha for unsociable behavior. NT and SWU also ruled that members of Kappa Alpha made racist comments. All three had been put on probation before their suspensions, NT's chapter twice for alcohol violations in the past decade. SWU had also placed individual members of the fraternity on probation in recent weeks. Though the three suspensions appear similar in nature, a spokesperson for the National Kappa Alpha Chapter denied any kind of negative trend against his fraternity. "We look for new and creative ways to educate our chapters on our policies and proper decorum and behavior," said Larry Wiese, executive director of Kappa Alpha Order in Lexington, Va. Wiese also denied allegations of racism against the national organization, saying that the use of the Confederate battle flag by some Kappa Alpha fraternities is not a symbol of the national chapter. Kappa Alpha members at NT were accused of waving a Confederate battle flag during bid day at a group of prospective football recruits touring the campus. Members of Eagle Angels said members of NT's Kappa Alpha chapter made racist comments to African-American football recruits in the group. Matt Spellman, president of NT's Kappa Alpha chapter, denied that any member of Kappa Alpha made racial slurs to the football recruits. The Kappa Alpha fraternity house at Southern Methodist University had a Confederate battle flag painted on its basketball court until members painted over the flag in recent weeks. "The Confederate [battle] flag has never been a symbol of Kappa Alpha Order," Wiese said. "[Fraternity members] are concerned that their use of the Confederate flag has been misinterpreted." In fact, Wiese said members of 17 chapters of Kappa Alpha Order from Texas and Oklahoma met at SMU Saturday and passed a resolution condemning the use of the Confederate battle flag in association with Kappa Alpha. "They voted unanimously to ban the display of the Confederate flag from any Kappa Alpha property or event," Wiese said. Van Danen said many of SWU's Kappa Alpha members were active in the Georgetown community. Van Danen said of the Kappa Alpha members at SWU, 19 were members of the school's baseball team. Like the former Kappa Alpha members at NT, no individuals from SWU or Arkansas Tech were suspended from school |
What to say, what to say............
OK, I'm going to start off with the N. Texas Incident. First of all, I have no doubts about the KA's at N. Texas waiving the confederate battle flag during bid day. A lot of chapters do. Do I agree with it? Well, as a strong supporter of the Confederate sentiment, and a lover of the Battle Flag, I have to say that a true gentleman wouldnt wave the Battle Flag in any area that it would offend anyone in public. Course I was always offended by that "It's a black thing, you wouldnt understand" shirt. Now having the flag in the chapter house or in the brothers apartments are diffrent stories. Did the N. Texas KA's shout racist slurs? I highly doubt it. 2 reasons. 1. bid day, why in the hell would someone break away from the excitement of bid day to shout racist slurs. Too much going on to have time for that. 2. Why would anyone piss off sports recruits? I feel like these young men saw the KA's with the Battle Flag out, greeting our new brothers, and got their panties in a wad and told the dean of the school that no way in hell would they attend a university were a bunch of guys walked around with Battle Flags hung over their shoulder. I know I'm gonna catch hell for this. Southwestern. I dont know what the hell happend there. I think that all of Texas is in a uproar right now and there is no telling what that suspension is from. It could be something as small as having a Battle Flag hung in a couple rooms of the house. Arkansas This is just as much a load of crap. One of the brothers girlfriend had her car written on with shoe polish by a group of Sig Eps, who also disrespected her and called her names. In defense of this womans honor, this brother would'nt stand for it. KA at Arkansas gone, Sig Eps got a slap on the wrist. Trust me, our nationals DOES NOT PLAY. We have to maintain gentleman status with everything we do as KA's. We are constantly looked upon and analyized, and now more than ever we are under the microscope. Look folks, I love the South. I dont defend racism. My Confederate Battle Flag doesnt mean that to me, nor most of the brothers I have come in contact with. To me, it symbolizes a group of men fighting oppresion, and willing to give their lives for their homes. The good general, Robert E. Lee did not support slavery. When offered the command of the UNION forces he declined, saying that he will side with the Confederacy, in defense of his home, old Virginia. Members of my family died in defense of their southern homes. In 1860's slavery was pretty much already on its way out, and most southern soldiers didnt even own slaves, they were just fighting for their homelands.I am a Southerner. Damn proud to be one too. I dont mind getting laughed at for my accent. I dont mind folks laughing at me for wearing boots with a 400 dollars sport coat. I have a good engineering job, a great family, a beutiful girlfriend who I hope will do me the honor of marrying me one day, my faith is good, I make a mean barbeque, got a good dog, a good looking truck, pretty decent golf game, hunt and fish with the best of em, and believe it or not, this ol country boy can actually cut a rug every once in a while. I am who I am. Good southern men would give you the shirts off their back, the last bite of food they have, and the consideration to stand when a lady walks in a room. The Battle Flag will become as socially unexceptable as the swastika soon. The romantism of the South and being a good southerner in general are both beutiful things. I wouldnt trade it for anything, and I'm willing to give my life for my beliefs. The shirt I have on right now has Robert E. Lee's "Definition of a Gentleman" on the back of it. No battle flag. And yes, its a shirt from my chapter. The ELC for the Texas chapters is a good friend of mine and I hope to be in contact with him soon, so maybe I will be better informed on these incidents. I'm anxious to hear what he has to say. There are times when everyone should mind their own buisness and I definantly think this is one of those times. The Order lost 3 chapters this month. We didnt need you to remind us, and I dont think the rest of the world needed you to remind them either [This message has been edited by KABillyMac (edited February 23, 2001).] [This message has been edited by KABillyMac (edited February 23, 2001).] [This message has been edited by KABillyMac (edited February 23, 2001).] |
KABillyMac, I am a member of Delta Sigma Phi at UTSA. Me and about 10 of my brothers from this chapter took a road trip to UNT to visit our brothers there and attend their Bid Day. I was there in the bid room at the University union w/ the KA's during that time, they had their Confederate Flag out and their dog "Dixie". I am hispanic, but in no shape, way or form was I offended, because I knew it was a symbol of pride to (some)of the KA's. I went to UNT my Freshman year and the KA's i met were cool guys, they never said anything derogatory about me. When bid day was over we all walked out of the Room and (YES) the KA's did make what could be considered racist remarks (I'm not lying and would make no reason to). I personally laughed it off and continued yelling our chants. There was a group touring the union at the time looking at us from downstairs, but I don't think the KA's did it intetionally. This was the incident on the same day prior to the football recruits walking past their house. Anyways our chapter left that night and about 2 days later I was made aware of the incident by a brother of mine at UNT. I was also made aware that one of your brothers in UNT-Student Government who was the president stepped down and disbanded himself from KA during the investigation. I think his name was Matt. Just wanted to let you know I was there and saw the incident and am in no way dislikeful of Kappa Alpha Order.
DeltaSig at UTSA |
I think that says alot, it is good to hear that from someone who was actually there to see it. Good to see that the KA's there showed you some hospitality. Thanks for the support.
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USF
My point being that with the state that the greek community is in does it really help when we come to the board and post the wrong doings of other chapters/organiztions? What is to gain in that? There are pledges dying every year among other things, hazing, etc. I see few of these happenings posted here. Say I'm reading the morning paper and I come across a article in the paper about xyz fraternity/sorority who got their charter pulled because of xyz123 incident. Now, what is the right thing to do? Should I throw the paper down, run upstairs, get on greekchat and post a reply about it, telling the entire world, or do i shake my head in disbelief, pray that it doesnt happen to my chapter, and go about my buisness. (Disclaimer to Liberals: I know that the world and this board has a right to know. I'm not saying that you dont. My point is for non greeks and potential greeks that visit this board, how do you think this makes us look. And trust me, although this is mainly a reflection of KA, it looks bad on us all.) Now, M'am, I'm sorry I confused you with a male, and no, I dont want to slander your chapter. I hope all of you realize how seriously pissed-the-hell off I was today when I came to work, checked my mail, checked greekchat and BOOM! the KA folder is red. I knew what it was, I just didnt know how far it had went sent my last visit. I havent got a lick of work done today because I have been waiting for more posts. (Disclaimer to Mr. Hammel: Sir, I think this thread is going to get heated. My apolgies up front. I have to do what I can to defend my Order, or at least shine a little light on a terrible situation. I am only one man of 2 on this board that is KA. I guess I gotta say somethin, I'm usually pretty quiet on here.) Anyway, USF, my apoligies. |
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Look folks, I love the South. I dont defend racism. My Confederate Battle Flag doesnt mean that to me, nor most of the brothers I have come in contact with. To me, it symbolizes a group of men fighting oppresion, and willing to give their lives for their homes. The good general, Robert E. Lee did not support slavery. When offered the command of the UNION forces he declined, saying that he will side with the confederacy, in defense of his home, old Virginia. Members of my family died in defense of their southern homes. In 1860's slavery was pretty much already on its way out, and most southern soldiers didnt even own slaves, they were just fighting for their homelands.I am a Southerner. Damn proud to be one too. I dont mind getting laughed at for my accent. I dont mind folks laughing at me for wearing boots with a 400 dollars sport coat. I have a good engineering job, a great family, a beutiful girlfriend who I hope will do me the honor of marrying me one day, my faith is good, I make a mean barbeque, got a good dog, a good looking truck, pretty decent golf game, hunt and fish with the best of em, and believe it or not, this ol country boy can actually cut a rug every once in a while. I am who I am. Good southern men would give you the shirts off their back, the last bite of food they have, and the consideration to stand when a lady walks in a room. The Battle Flag will become as socially unexceptable as the swastika soon. The romantism of the South and being a good southerner in general are both beutiful things. I wouldnt trade it for anything, and I'm willing to give my life for my beliefs. You have represented yourself, Kappa Alpha Order, and The South very well. People will always give us grief for being from The South - in my opinion, many people have been mislead to believe that heritage is only important if you are from somewhere other than The South - likewise for the issues of truth and integrity. |
I am sorry if what I posted offended you BillyMac. I guess we have different perceptions of the purpose of this board. I view it as more of a resource for currnet members, than a tool for prtential recruits or non-greeks. I like to come on here to chat, discuss and make myself aware of the issues facing us as greeks around the nation. I understand how it could reflect badly on the system as a whole when there are blemishes, however I do not believe it to be productive to any of our member orgs to look away or pretend something didn't happen. Education is the key. I never made any negative commentary on the subject. We simply were posting for FYI's sake. I even notied in my post the apparent bias of the reporter covering the story. Before this thread was started in january, many other postings had been made about other fraternity chapters closing around the country. If it was one of my chapers that were closed, and I discovered in on cnn.com or in the paper, I would have posted that info as well.
I do not know any KA's. I can and do respect your fervor in defending your order. It might interest you to know that I am a southerner as well. I am VERY proud of my southern heratage. I am a third generation Texan, and can trace my roots to colonial Georgia and Tennesee. PRE-CIVIL war. I lost all kinds of ancestors in the battles. I don't really have any emotional investment in the battle flag. I do in the texas flag, so I can understand how someone could feel about a symbol like that. I am not going to get in the debate over what allegedly happened with the three chapters. I simply put the infor up there for people to read and make their own judgements, and will continue to do so. How can we be expected to defend our beliefs (in greek life) if we choose not to inform ourselves of the good, the bad and the ugly. I hope you feel better and can get some work done today. Email me if you want. [This message has been edited by lifesaver (edited February 23, 2001).] |
I can see both sides of the fence. I would love to be a KA in Texas. Their chapters have beutiful mansions and great brotherhood. My replies today have been heated, but they always are when your trying to defend something you love.
Our national office is voting this summer to ban all confederate regalia from KA property and functions. Will I vote for it? Hell no. I had the honor of meeting our Knight Commander this weekend at our province council. He was a fine man, but also a supporter of removing the Confederate regalia. Well, if it means that less chapters would be suspended, then maybe I will vote for it. Nationals expects us to uphold gentlemanly conduct always. I dont support the suspension of those chapters charters. But hey, when you have broke through and hit the press with your actions, then I guess you have to make an example out of a few. I just dont understand it though. And more especially is Arkansas. There is no way that chapter should have lost their charter because a brother stood up to defend the honor of his girlfriend. I really appreciate your apology today, but it really wasnt necessary. Sometimes I think I should have kept my mouth shut unless the thread got completely out of control, but hey, maybe I'll make a friend or two (or enemy for that matter) out of all this. Any brother that is out there reading this, step up, be heard. If we dont then we will have to accept the oppresion of this. My heart goes out to my brothers who have lost their charter. I dont know what to say. I can think of no other horror than that of not being able to confer our intiation, that masterpiece, that work of art, upon the minds of young men. Be proud of the Order. You can go to lots of greek pages and see the secrets of some large national fraternities plastered all over them. As for the Order, this is one secret they wont be able to pry from my cold dead hands. My chapter recently won the top national chapter award, but even with that, I know that we have to watch what we say and do, not only to uphold the definition of a gentleman, and because big brother is watching. |
Alpha,
You make a good case. But I feel I should add something. The Confederate battle flag is a rip off of the Scottish flag, St. Andrews Cross. My thoughts on that are a different matter. Most people in the south fought for the right for states to do what ever they want. That is why they joined. The issue of slavery was important to the upper circles of the state governments, but most people fighting the war, includeing most generals, where led to believe they were fighting sort of a second war of independance. To KA BillyMac, don't take this the wrong way, but Robert E. Lee was going to join the Union untill Virgia suceaded. He couldnot turn his back on Virginia. The Confederacy wasn't unified at all. |
Isn't this thread supposed to be about KA?? The fraternity has its own flag anyway.
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The most important thing to remember is that ALL chapters are different!! Furthermore, isn't this thread supposed to be about KA... not the "Rebel" flag???
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KABillyMac:
I am sorry that you are upset at my posting of this article about your organization. Although I do not see the need for you to retailiate against my organization. Several people have come on this board and call your organization all sorts of terrible things, while since I personally know no KA's from my school since we have no chapter. The article merely came across my desk, and then i noticed the topic. It hurts to lose chapters, but threatening people is the not the way to handle it, not the gentlemanly way you so pride yourself on. However, should you be so inclined to do so, I am a member of Sigma Delta Tau SORORITY. Knock yourself out, I don't pretend that I have less then stellar chapters somewhere, but I will stand by them because they are my sisters. -USFstudent |
Kappa Alpha Order must realize that symbols that may not have begun as racist can be transformed to be racist all the same. The Swastika is an ancient symbol of the sun, but I would guess that no one associates it with this anymore.
You would guess this? |
Good point KABillyMac. You seem overall like a good bunch of guys. If symbols change, YOu can choose new ones to mean just as much to you. Good luck, and I hope the actions of a few don't jeoprodize a great orginization. The more people that hold on to the ideals of chivalrary the better, and I hope that even if symbols change, the meaning of being a true gentleman remains the same.
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In regards to this previous post.....I have always been intringued by those who believe that it is perfectly acceptable to live and die by what they deem as "their rights" but yet continue to tell others what they don't have a right to do. I don't own a Confederate flag - but I whole heartedly agree that anyone who does, and wishes to fly the flag (on their own property be it a house, car, whatever), has a right to do so! I don't agree with the KKK or the NAACP -- but I believe that good people fought and died for the rights of each group to exist. Freedom of speech and expression cannot be limited to what one person (or a group for that matter) thinks is acceptable. So why should KA have to change their heritage and symbols? So others can agree with it??? If that's the case, then there is a whole lot of double standards out there that need to be fixed --- for example, in my fraternity, not once ANYWHERE will anyone find the words "To uplift/build/whatever the white community" -- because we believe in building and uplifting ALL COMMUNITIES. Not once does it say "The Christian Community" -- because we believe in freedom to worship. Not once does it say "Alpha Chi Omega above all else" because we believe that our fraternity should never interfere with our obligation to divine beliefs, family, and friends. I would have to say that based on what I know of Kappa Alpha Order, they too would stand by these type beliefs. And no one has a right to change that because they have made an inaccurate assumption of what a flag or a song means to them personally! Unless you are a member of KA Order, you cannot know what it means to them to wear with honor and pride the symbols of that fraternity. I don't know what it means to wear with honor and pride the symbols of any other frat or soro, so I know good and well that I don't have the right to tell them they can't wear it anymore just because I don't agree with it. This topic will never cease to rise and fall - I know that we all have our own opinions and beliefs, but I also know that I have the right to love my family and my heritage for what it means to me -- the same as we all do -- and KA shouldn't be excluded from that right. |
AXO,
I just wanted to thank you for your support, you are a eloquent (sp?) speaker. I have enjoyed reading your responses and on behalf of KA I just wanted to thank you. KA has hundreds of black members. We do not turn men away because of race. I know this may come as a suprise to many of you. Maybe that kinda gives you all a diffrent view of KA. I was not going to fight about the history of the Civil War on this post. God I wanted to but I didnt. I would like to extend an invatation to the BGLO member, the author of "The Divine Nine" the opprotunity to discuss this in email. I'm not a dumb hilljack and I'm fully prepared to go toe to toe with him/her on Southern history. That post had a couple incorrect statements in it anyway. I just dont think a KA thread is going to be the proper place to fight about the history of the South. Once again, thank you to those of you who stepped up and showed support. |
I thought if you wear the confederate uniform to important events and wave the confederate flag around all the time that you would be racist. They are at my campus, they get in fights with the BGLO's all the time.
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I don't know if they are racist. I have heard of black KA's before. There was one I used to talk to that was from a North Carolina chapter. Would a black person join a racist fraternity?
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My .02 on the gentleman of Kappa Alpha Order and their "racist" reputation:
1. My boyfriend's KA chapter (Beta Beta, I believe) was almost entirely African-American in the 1970's. In the 1980's, they were from every imaginable nationality, as they were also known as the "soccer" house. And this is in West by Gawd Virginia. Since our diversity at Bethany has gone drastically downhill since those days, so do the numbers of minorities in the Beta Beta chapter. It just happened like that, and it's not a reflection of the men in the organization. 2. I read a story somewhere that KA was flying the Confederate Flag, and it bothered a cleaning woman. Someone approached the chapter and asked them to take it down. The guys asked why and the person said it was upsetting the cleaning woman. So, they took it down. No more questions asked. I thought that was v.v.nice. 3. I'm sure that the KA brothers that made racist comments, etc... were assholes before they joined KA. Their attitudes are due to their upbringing, not the supposed "brainwashing" of fraternity life. |
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Display of the Confederate Battle Flag. The display of the Confederate Battle Flag shall be prohibited from any chapter house, lodge, or meeting place: a "display" shall mean a visible presence from the exterior of said property and from the common areas within. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be displayed at any fraternity function or gathering, on or off property associated with Kappa Alpha Order. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be associated with Kappa Alpha Order by any medium including, but not limited to, fabric pattern, printed material, painted or stenciled surfaces, or computer Web sites. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be incorporated into the design of clothing or any other items bearing symbolism of Kappa Alpha Order. An issue of the Kappa Alpha Journal a year or so ago (which used to be available on-line, but now I can't find it) had a very good cover story on the association between KA and the Conferderate Battle flag, historically and now, along with discussion of why KA would not want to be associated with the negative connotations the flag carries with so many people. BTW, Kappa Alpha Order has long had its own, very attractive flag: three vertical bars -- crimson, white and gold -- with a crimson Greek cross (all arms equal length) in the center of the white bar. For what it's worth. |
MysticCat: Yeah, I believe that story is at least a few years old. I *think* it was in "Wrongs of Passage."
I agree, the KA Flag rules. I had to make it with icing for their bid day cake this past year. :p |
I am sure that all of us have had members of our Familys way back when fight in the Civil War!
I did, the Earp side for the North and the Lee side in the South! Andrew Johnson, NO Not Andrew Jackson, was from Eastern Tenn! Who may you ask was he, da, the 17 th Pres. after Lincoln was killed! He as A Legislator was the deciding vote when carried in on a streatcher to vote to keep the Union together! Yep related to him too! The Stars and Bars was the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, but there were all kinds of Flags! This one was picked out to represent the Whites wanting to keep slaves by the People of the North! It was an economic battle before it was a battle to free the slaves. Using this particular Flag I think does an injustice! While everyone one wants to use this as a symbol of the Racisim of the South, It is not true! So the Members Of KA wear Uniforms that show what the beleifs are! They go by Southern Gentlemen, not racists! I for one Salute another Member of the IFC of GreekDom. Yes people, We as Greeks are becoming Minoritys on Our Very own campuses! By The Way, That Is All Greeks no matter what color! Get with it and get it together! Yes, slavery happened in the early years of this Country the Northeren Irish Hate the Southern Irish! The Roman Catholics hate the Protestents and to this day blow each other up! It is Economics! Wake up people, that is what life is about! And to damn Unfortunitally so! Oil, If G Bush keeps talking about taking the Nut out in Iraq, well what the hell then! Pedal or walk to your jobs DA! I Love My Flag Of the USA! I also love Canada, Englend, and French Flags for what they look lie! As a kid, I used to make Flags and put them up in my back yard! Does anyone remember, Dont Tread On Me? That was a Flag also! Get over your sellf importance and feelings of I hate you because you are white or Black, or Asian! I have! |
The historical meaning of the confederate battle flag is not what most people have an issue with. It was chosen back then because the offical flag of CSA was red and white, like the US flag and people shot the wrong troops. The battle flag was latter adopted by KKK and other racists. It was added to state flags as a payback for intergration.
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I don't know any KA's but don't assume that a chapter is racist because of the conferderate issue. After all, Phi Mu's honorary members are Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and Jefferson Davis. Are we racist? I've never met a Phi Mu who is.
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KA at Auburn
Friend of mine's son just pledged KA at Auburn. As for the snide remark earlier that KA as a fraternity is racist, I'd be curious to know which is the greater liklihood on a given campus: that the KA chapter would have a black member, or that a chapter of one of the mainstream Black fraternities would have a white member.
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I posted my feelings on this issue a while back, but since someone decided to drag this ole' thread up again, here I go:
Kappa Alpha Order is NOT a racist organization. As in any GLO, there will be some idiots who are prejudiced against certain groups of people. However, it's absolutely asinine to categorize an entire fraternity as racist based on the actions of a select few. The truth of the matter is that some people have problems with the fact that KA was founded in the South during a very sad time in this nation's history and that the fraternity credits Robert E. Lee as being the Southern gentleman who helped get the fledgling organization off the ground. The fact that Lee is an historic figure associated with the South during the Civil War has given a lot of people reason to believe that the men of Kappa Alpha would like to go back to the days of slavery. And some incidents involving racism that have cropped up at certain KA chapters in the past have helped to perpetuate that myth, much to the dismay of true Kappa Alpha gentlemen who have been embarrassed and angered by those actions. However, some folks act like KA is the only fraternity to be publicly humiliated due to the actions of some less-than-desirable members, and I can tell you quite certainly that it is not. Before we start calling the KA organization "racist," maybe some of us should check out our own organizations' histories. I'd be willing to bet that we've all had a few "bad apples" in some of our chapters over the years that we'd rather not claim as our own. But does that make it right for someone to categorize our organizations as being "racist" or "druggies" or "date rapists" -- or any other slanderous term that has been used to describe certain Greek Letter Organizations in recent years? My brother is a proud Kappa Alpha Southern Gentleman, and there is no fraternity that I would rather him join. His chapter brothers are some of the most polite, respectful and intelligent young men that I've had the opportunity to meet, and they strictly adhere to the code of the Southern gentleman. When I enter the KA House, I have no doubt that I will be treated with anything but the utmost respect. The guys practically knock each other over trying to open doors for women! :D I wish that all fraternities offered their pledges the types of etiquette training that Kappa Alpha and a few other groups offer theirs. I think we'd have a lot more gentlemen walking around if they did. Now, my brother's chapter may not have an African-American member in its ranks currently. However, I don't know any fraternity on his campus that does. It's just one of those things -- down here you don't see many African-Americans in GLO's that aren't considered HBGLO's. What I do know is that I've been to the KA House during band parties and other social events and have looked around the room to see a wide variety of people in attendance -- white, black, Asian, and Hispanic. And these were invitation-only parties. So, if KA is racist, then what were all those non-Caucasian folks doing there? Answer me that. **dzrose93 stepping off her soapbox** ;) |
I have nothing but the highest of respect for the Kappa Alpha Order and the principles they teach which are, sadly, lacking in many colleges and universities today. In fact, several of my Masonic lodge brothers are KA Order members.
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As for this thread, although I do not know any KA ORder brothers ( I do know a KA Society brother), I have nothing but respect for their fraternity. And their flag kick ass. |
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The commonly-seen Confederate flag that was (and is) used by the KKK, and is sometimes called the "battle flag," is actually the second naval jack of the Confederate navy. Just trying to keep things historically accurate. |
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If we judge by the standards of our own time, then I am sure we would consider Lee a racist (as we would Washington, Jefferson, and many, many others). But by the standards of Lee's time, that silent act was a powerful challenge to prevailing, deeply-entrenched prejudices. For what it's worth. |
Lee was not racist. In those days states were considered like countries. Like if the UN broke up now and went to war, if Lee were alive he would fight for America, because that is his country, not the UN. It was like that back then. He felt that even though he wanted the US to stay together, Virginia was his country, and he could not fight against his country because that would treason. Lee was Lincolns first choice.
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Kinda sorta back on topic. My sister's ex boyfriend is a KA in oklahoma, and he is one of the nicest, most respectful, and least racist guys I know. And so are his brothers that I hang out with.
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If you're going to post stuff like the above, maybe take a minute to think it through - there are, in fact, Kappa Alphas on this board, and they are NOT racist men. KABillyMac, one of the most universally liked men on this board, might be a bit shocked to see that he's a closet racist. In short - shut the hell up kid, unless you're joking (and then I don't get it). |
My husband is a Kappa Alpha, and that was one of the main reasons that I was attracted to him: his kindness, generosity, and the fact that he nearly breaks his arm trying to open the door for me wherever we're going! Like someone else said, whenever I went over to the house when we were in school, and even now, I know that I am around a great group of guys who would do anything for me. And not just because I married one of the brothers, but because I'm a lady and they treat me with respect.
No matter what the national organization was founded on, there are always going to be some idiots that get in who do not in any way represent the ideals that KA was founded on. That goes without saying for every single fraternity and sorority ever founded. But the KAs that I have met are great guys, always welcoming, raise tons of money for MDA, and are well liked by the majority of people. My $0.02. Bama |
I dated a KA my freshman year while he was pledging, so in my true style, I researched the fraternity. They are southern in every aspect of the term. Does this mean they're racist? Well, I'm sure they have a couple of brothers who are, but I'm also pretty sure (not knowing myself, of course) that part of their initiation does NOT involve swearing on a bible that they will hate black people for the rest of their life. Now, I loved my boyfriend very much, and a lot of the reasons that I did were the same reasons that made him such a great KA. He opened doors for me, had true southern values, and centered his life around hunting (ok, so maybe the hunting thing wasn't my favorite part). I still tease him from time to time about being a rich, racist, "Khaki A-hole" but in the end he's truly a wonderful guy.
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It is very ignorant for you to say something like that. What I find funny is they have to have female dates for Old South - so I guess the girls that go to that are racist too? If so, then that is an attack on my sister - and well, we won't go there. |
Hey Folks - I'm a KA and I just signed up on Greek Chat and read through the past 6 or so pages concerning KA, the South, the Battle Flag etc. I just wanted to thank you all from the bottom of my heart for standing up and defending the Order. I appreciate it greatly and I'm sure the same goes for all my Kappa Alpha brothers.
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I know at Ole miss KA's aren't the southern redneck boys with cotton license plates on the front of their cars...that's another frat. I don't know what KA was founded on, but saying that KA's are racist because their founder was is insane- that was like 125+ years ago.
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