That's the problem that many small chapters have. If you have 5 members and are expected to participate in Greek Week, service week, and everything else the same as a 40+ NPC or IFC chapter does, you will come up short. Then you'll get criticized for lack of participation/visibility and people will assume that you are doing less, in general. This has always been the case at the schools that I'm most familiar with.

Even bigger NPHC chapters (not the big ones at HBCUs but larger chapters at PWIs) may be much smaller than the NPC and IFC chapters. So they can delegate tasks better but will not have the same visibility if people are going by the NPC/IFC standard.

Nah, i dont think they were mocking. they clearly saw it somewhere, thought it was cool and did it.

ok, point taken, and i will not doubt what it symbolizes for TKE. however its not organization-wide. one chapter may be all for it and another will look at you like WTF? you lose your unity by doing something that, for NPHCs (and multicultural orgs, hell even NPCs that do them nationally) is one (of the many) tie that binds, regardless of the chapter.

again, doing what the other group did but not accomplishing what was accomplished. and to your :rolleyes: @ my comment on mimicking community service vs. handsigns. it really wouldnt hurt and id be more flattered if you copied my community services vs. my handsign.

not that nonNPHCs are here to please NPHCs or anything.

I know I'm late responding to this comment but I just have to throw in my 22 cents. When people make statements like this I just shake my head especially since some or all of the NPHC orgs have to do certain service projects/programs every semester or school year. It's mandatory. At least with my org it is and the calendar we have to comply with is not modest by any means. The only way a chapter could get away with not doing what is required is if their alumnae advisor wasn't doing her job. And even then it wouldn't be acceptable since a report has to be sent in to our national body at the end of every school year. So I have to agree with the others that just because you don't see everything doesn't mean things aren't going on. The undergrads may also have joint projects/programs with neighboring undergrad chapters and alumnae chapters away from their campuses.

Correct. :)

I'll go with a more...sociological look.

Sociologists call it "cross-ghettoization" (I believe it's the term), but it's not the word I would use, nor the word which aptly describes it. Simply put, ethnic minorities tend to reflect other ethnic minorities. The term "cross-ghettoization"(I think) is a somewhat harsher word towards hispanics and other ethnic groups.

In Germany, the black people (which have noooothing in common with African-Americans in America except they're usually only 2nd generation immigrants instead of 10th from Africa)...dress exactly the same as the stereotyped "rap" popular "ghetto" culture. They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc. They see the ethnic minorities in America and tend to reflect that culture...even if it has nothing to do with their own. So, perhaps, the other LGLO/MCGLO's, do with NPHC. It's only a theory, I guess, but an interesting one.

^^That is a typically negative and rather simplistic spin, right down to the language, on what can be a positive phenomenon in these communities. It does not seem to engage the question of why at all. There is a reason why aspects of African American culture resonate with other ethnic groups both here and abroad, and that notion that you defined does not begin to question why.

No.....
 

Blacks in Germany do have things in common with African Americans.

But what we have in common (and African American culture) can not be reduced to "rap" and "popular ghetto culture." There have always been African diasporic and international racial activism efforts that have connected us on much more meaningful fronts.

Other than those points of clarification, you are misapplying concepts.

I think your analogy misses the mark. :confused:

Many Blacks in Germany did not immigrate there. They were born there after WWII and continue to live there.

Especially when you share a parent. ;)

I disagree with the above statements. Although Bob Johnson, Founder of "Black Entertainment Television" or BET, is African American, he has allowed for the annihilation of the self-esteems of numerous people of darker skin and African diaspora with the types of videos shown on the channel. That is probably because BET's parent company is Viacom and the satellite signal sits with Paramount and Dreamworks or one of huge news corporations...

Now, with that said, BET is shown in Germany. It would be easy to get a completely inaccurate view of the totality of African American history. Before the signal was accepted, the culture of Africans in Europe are probably similar to that in Britain, France, Holland and elsewhere.

The word on the street is that "Europe" wanted to "pacify" its kneegrows, and the easiest way is through the destruction of self-esteem and all out neutralization. It takes 20+ years. But, you are seeing its effects. The only thing "Europe" did NOT count on is globalization, media images and communications with others...

It's a new day... ;) :D

That's so cool. :) My college roommate the summer before my freshman year was from Germany.

Her father would call from Germany every morning at 6:00AM thinking I was she. 6:00AM!!!!!! :mad:

On the handsign tip:

I think it's possible that some NPC members don't realize they're "imitating" NPHCs. I'm just being blatantly honest here, because some NPC members know little to nothing about NPHCs. We had no NPHC orgs on my campus until I was a senior. Basically the only reason from my relatively competent knowledge of NPHC is my involvement in Greekchat. I am almost positive that that's often the case for other NPC members, even on campuses with active NPHC groups. Unless, as DSTCHAOS mentioned, there is a good Greek Life office that encourages interaction between various councils and provides PR information on the activities of one to the members of the other.

I've often seen images of NPC groups making signs (ADPi making a diamond, KD using two women to make a KD, Tri-Delt making a Delta or triangle). It's not entirely clear to me that these women thought "Hey, NPHCs have really cool signs, we should do it too" which certainly would preclude them thinking "Hey, I should consider how this hand sign will look to NPHC, which treasures hand signs as part of their institutional identity." They might not even realize that NPHC does signs. If they do, they might not realize the important role NPHC handsigns play and just assume that it would be viewed as a tribute or "that's cool" type of thing by NPHC. I mean I could especially see this in the case of Tri-Delt making a Delta, for obvious reasons. I just don't think the majority of NPC members would make the connection... which is a sad testament to NPC members' lack of knowledge about NPHC... but in my experience, that's the way it works. :(

no they dont. stop it right now.

ehh, i tried. it totally made sense in my head. i was comparing it to an advertising case study from a class way back when, but i didnt feel like going into detail and went for something simpler.

I thought that some NPC (and I assume IFC) orgs had handsigns before they became very popular with NPHC orgs. The handsigns were only used at certain times so they weren't a very visible tradition.

I was going to ask for a citation for that but decided the main point could be lost. :p

Without getting into ritual, let me say that some NPCs have recognition signs that pre-date NPHC orgs, but they are not for public usage. DSTChaos is right.

Funny, I see that with White teens all of the time. And I live in Minnesota.

This is definitely true, and a good point! I think that in some situations, like with this one, people define the NPHC as something trivial like stepping or handsigns or calls, which is highly wrong on two levels. Firstly, that is not all the NPHC is about, so it's very trivial to you guys. Secondly...you all have NO IDEA what goes on in our ritual. For all you know, we DO have stepping that we do...in private. Do we have hand signs and calls? Maybe. Like breathesgelatin said, some NPCs do use hand signs regularly in public, and I know NPC chapters that have their own calls that they use in public too (although I believe that is limited to their chapter...). The point is, it's very wrong to assume that if a group has a handsign or call, they are AUTOMATICALLY imitating the NPHC.

:) I do find it funny, though, when a MCGLO gets angry because another MCGLO is 'copying' them, but they do things like say, "XYZ INCORPORATED!", put on step shows and do other things that are definitely traditionally associated with the BGLOs.

That's because...

you live in Minnesota.

Let's not go too far now. ;)

I particularly find the IFC calls that I've heard extremely sexy.

But here's a big distinction: it tends to be limited to their chapter

Handsigns and calls that are ritual-based (or a nonritual tradition) and common across chapters are different than handsigns and calls that individual chapters create and that many NPC and IFCers may be unfamiliar with.

Yes, these handsigns and calls (and stepping) are not official components of NPHC orgs but they are some of the more visible traditions of NPHC orgs. That's why they are easily picked up by other orgs and many NPHCers hold onto them as a visible part of our identities.

LOL which ones? :p

None of the IFC chapters here have calls, but my chapter does this thing where whenever we win something or are being recognized for an accomplishment one of the brothers shouts "Can I get a woot-woot??" at the top of his lungs and all the brothers shout... wait for it... "woot woot!"

Lol.

That created a The Village People image for me. But I'm sure it's one of those "you have to be there" things. :p

LOL it is. It sounds better in real life than it seems on the internet.

When does this happen? The only time I've ever seen MCGLOs get upset about copycatting is when it's direct theft of organizational identity such as stealing pieces of a website, having letters that are intentionally similar (not going to call anyone out but this has happened recently with a multicultural sorority and there are issues with a Latina sorority that I'm aware of), using terminology that is specific to an org (for instance, another sorority in Florida started using the term "Emergence" to spite our chapters down there), or stealing concepts directly (like if a multicultural sorority other than Theta Nu Xi started calling their members "Theta Women").

It's like if someone signs onto Greek Chat with the screenname Blue1920 or DeltaDiva and is not a member of Zeta Phi Beta or Delta Sigma Theta, respectively. It raises eyebrows.

Things like stepping, strolling, saluting, etc., while they may be points of contention for some, are really nothing worth fighting over as has been mentioned many times on GC.

You know, I mentioned it because I see QNXi members on here upset all the time because another organization shares two letters (Phi Nu Xi, I believe?). By those standards, as an Alpha Sigma Tau, I should be VERY angry about Alpha Sigma Alpha! How dare they?? Copycats! :p In all seriousness, however, this is relative to my point - you can't ASSUME they're copying you. You don't KNOW that. And until you can say, with 100% certainty, that they are deliberately infringing on QNXi, then I find it a bit presumptuous to accuse them of it.

As far as using specific terminology, refer to my last post - the deliberate use of the word 'incorporated', using the term 'aspirants', etc are all directly from the NPHC...and I've seen them used by MCGLOs on this board repeatedly. I don't have anything against QNXi - don't get me wrong, I think MCGLOs can be great - but I do see a lot of hypocrisy sometimes.

If someone had the handle DeltaDiva, by the way, I would not be at all surprised to find they were a Tri Delt, which is part of my point. DST does not own the label 'Delta'. If someone in a local or national org used that as a reference, I would not immediately think they were copying DST...but some would, and that's not necessarily realistic.

Basically, my overall point here is that: a). You can never assume someone is copying you, and b). As members of GLOs, we are ALL going to have similarities in how we do things, even if it's as base as using Greek letters for our names. No one has really drawn the line over what's okay to use from existing Greeks, and what's not. I think WE all, as Greeks, have a good idea - but those founding local sororities may not have the same conception as some here that they are apparently not allowed to use calls or handsigns...at all.

Right, and I think it's fair to say that a lot of newer GLOs, especially those targeted towards African Americans or marketed as MCGLOs, do take it from the NPHC. However, there is ALSO a reasonable window of doubt that they simply have NPCs or IFCs on their campus that do it as well, and took the tradition from them.

Due to some legal issues that came up, I'm not really at liberty to discuss this situation. But, suffice it to say, I am 100% certain that they were deliberately infringing on Theta Nu Xi.

Again, what I was talking about was organizational. You're talking about "the NPHC." And, I don't want to delve too far into it, but ALL of our organizations are incorporated and NPHC organizations do not all officially use the term "aspirant." I realize these are simply examples you used, but you seem to be missing my point.

Given what you've posted thus far in this thread, I wouldn't expect you to understand why a non-DST DeltaDiva would raise eyebrows.

Rare.

You say aspirant, I say prospect. You say prospect, I say potential. You say potential, I say wannabe.

Just trying to lighten things up a little.

BTW, we use to just say Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, until we started spelling Inc. out on our official letterhead. The reason had to do with establishing business credibility with our would-be funders and sponsors. Then it became a cool thing to say in steps.

Speaking as a Member of an Independent BGLO our members Give our upmost Respect to NPHC Organizations. We know that if it were not for the strides they Made our organization may not be there. I cant speak for eveyone in our organization but for the members in my Chapter these Indidvudals never sought out a NPHC org to join. They wanted to do something different myself Included.

Then... We are not talking about you sweetheart... We are talking about those who are NPHC rejects that decide to share inappropriate information with non-members who later form groups they decide to call GLO.

I can see if stuff is made up, independently and there is a logical progression and reason behind pursuing a new type of organization. Justifiably so, how will said GLO serve the purposes of XYZ group du jour? NO ONE here questions that.

But, if I see another YOU TUBE imitating our steps and sounds because, wow, that's what Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. is ALL about--I swear, I am going to barf.

You obviously know nothing about this topic and should just stop with these kind of remarks. People of African descent all over the world have a great deal in common so just stop please. I've been to Germany 3 times now courtesy of my workplace which is global and based out of Germany. I have met and socialized with Black people there (some of which are my colleagues) and I can tell you that you are so WRONG WRONG WRONG! Just like other ethnic groups, we embrace our heritage wherever we reside.

I see this all the time where I am also and I live in Philly. People need to stop making remarks based on stereotypes, assumptions, and plain untruths.

I just saw your comment but yes, yes, yes. When will people get it?! When they educate themselves maybe?!

I've lived there for over a half a year.

I have good black German friends.

They are completely different than Black Americans in nearly every aspect except for how they dress.

There is no "pan-African" similarities. To believe otherwise is simply retarded. Yes, there are commonalities. Because they're humans and humans, believe it or not, have a lot in common with other humans. The fact that black Americans pretend like they have any connection to Africa is absolutely absurd.

So Italian-Americans, X-generations removed from Italy, for example, absolutely do not (and should not) have any connection to Italy. Or anyone who has been in America for many a generations yet their ancestors originating from another country?

There are differences, sure, but sometimes were more alike than we want to believe.

Soror don't even bother. Elephant Walk knows more than any of us could possibly know about Black culture around the world and our connection to eachother and to our heritage, because he has Black friends and has obviously done his research. He is here to enlighten us all and we should be greatful.

Of course - how could i forget? :mad::rolleyes:

P.s. Lived in Germany for two years... we're >here<

"Some of my best friends are black Germans. SO I KNOW!!!"

You're incorrect about your assertions. Period.


You're wrong.

You went from being an expert on every Greek system to being the expert on German blacks and Pan-African relations just because you spent almost a year in Germany? Your selective observations don't matter to the issue at hand. Give it a rest.