You're right.

What does that have anything to do with brotherhood in my chapter though?

There are people outside of my organization who know about our handshake, ritual, etc. Does that mean we share a bond of brotherhood? Or do I just need to send a check to nationals to be called 'brother'? Look at the criteria you people are using to qualify 'brotherhood', it's absurd.

I understand that these organizations are hypothetically supposed to have a set of uniform principles that members adhere to, but let's be honest, how true is that? Does every member of every chapter of your organization have the same standards of morals as you? What about political or idealogical views?

having letters in front of your name doesn't make you brothers, the experiences you go through together do. I really doubt SAE's at Mother Mu in Alabama are going to be best buddies with an SAE at Oregon.

two different worlds.

now they won't necessarily not get along, but the similarities are slim

Well, there are plentys of lcoals out there which shows if you really wanted to it could be done. How would you alumni view that though?

Someone has their panties in a bunch.

Obviosuly non-chapter brothers aren't going to have the same bonds as chapter brothers. My organization actually promotes chapters visiting chapters to meet our "other" brothers and expand our horizions. I have found more times then not, there was a bond by just being in the same fraternity. Not as strong as being in the same chapter but a mutual respect thing. I actually got to witness another chapter's brothering up ceremony and that was something I'd recommend everyone does. That was one of the moments that I got botherhood on a national level. But hey, we had brothers that only cared about the local chapter as well. I guess it what you want to make/get out of it. I personally like meeting brothers from other chapters. More times then not we have got along and treated each other as brothers- not chapter brothers but not as random people on the street either but rather as fraternal brothers.

Interesting. A lot of people are attacking you for this view...but go into the Sorority Recruitment forum and you'll see people saying a hundred times over that "people join sororities for the people, not for the motto/ideals/philanthropy".

So, by that standard, it's perfectly acceptable to not consider your founders or other chapter's members a part of your organization - you did not join for them, you joined for the people who were in it at your time.

It just strikes me as interesting because people are getting all upset over this, but yet why does it matter how someone feels towards his nationals if people are going to say it's only the people that matter?

..I hope that made sense.

If it were only the people that matter, then you wouldn't have to join a GLO with ritual and tradition--just a club with people you like would be enough.

You're right. I reacted irrationally because I was in a pissy mood. I offer you my sincere apologies.

From reading the rest of this thread, it's clear that attitudes are different within the NPC and the NIC. I don't think anyone expects the bonds to be the same for strangers who happen to be in the same GLO than those for the members of anyone's particular chapter but the outright disdain that others have expressed is puzzling.

Here's some food for thought:

I have met sisters through greekchat and livejournal that are, right now, the reason I do not drop my letters and disaffiliate. They are exactly what I was looking for when I decided to join my sorority. Support, friendship, love through thick and thin.

I have never met these women in real life and I know that when my chapter, the women who extended me a bid, rejected me through no fault of my own, the closeness you guys talk about comes to me 2000 miles away. When I need someone to talk to, I call a sister in California.

Here's the thing-even if I was close with my chapter, I'd treat any sister I met with more than just courtesy and respect. So...is this just a male/female difference? Any other women feel the same way as me? Should we ask Alexandra Robbins? I bet she managed to get undercover in a fraternity house no problem :P

SEC-I had to go to a funeral recently. My great-uncle. Diagnosis of Alzheimer's last fall and he died of pneumonia in February. I'm really sorry for my callousness. There's been too much death recently.

I'll agree that almost everyone who joins an NIC or NPC GLO chooses which one to join based on which chapter at their school is the best fit for their personality. However, what [most] members learn and come to appreciate is that they joined an organization so much bigger than their cohort of friends, an organization that has continued for many years, and will continue for many more. That's the difference between a fraternity/sorority and a clique. Some people realize how special it is to join a GLO even as potential members, but the rest will realize it later, maybe after initiation, maybe after meeting members of another chapter at Founders' Day, maybe after attending Convention, etc. I guess there are some who don't realize it at all.

ETA: Probably 99.999% of GLO members are closest to members from their chapter from when they were in school. It would be silly to expect a member to be BFF with a brother/sister they've never talked to/met, and I'd think that most members would be courteous and respectful to brothers/sisters they are meeting for the first time. What I was criticizing was a perceived air of superiority of a poster's chapter over other chapters and the national organization collectively.

No, I'm perfectly fine.

If I remember correctly you stated that some of don't "get brotherhood" for pretty much having this exact view. Pretty sure I'm not wrong about that.

I have neither the time nor the desire to visit a bunch of chapters of SAE to expand my fraternal horizons. I'm not even really sure what that means. If it so happens that I have friends in the same fraternity when visiting other schools on road trips......then so be it. We will have a great time.

If I meet someone and they deserve my respect than they will get it. I'm not going to automatically respect someone because they pay money to be a member of a fraternity.

Don't really have any desire to witness initiation ceremonies at other chapters. I know the ritual. I've been through it. It's something that should be enjoyed by the chapter themselves. I don't need to see it.

I'm glad you "got brotherhood" though. You still haven't enlightened us on how to get it.

Never said I don't care about other chapters.

You're right, your fraternity experience is what you make of it. Mine has been stellar.

Never said I didn't like meeting guys from other chapters. I've met tons of them at many, many schools throughout Texas and the South. That's great. They are SAE's. I'm and SAE. We are in the same fraternity. Perhaps later when we are at the bar we can talk about our crazy brotherhood events, or how fucked up we got on big bro night. Maybe we will exchange numbers and keep in touch. We say bye, we go home, that's the end of it. Now I have some new friends who happen to be in the same fraternity as me. What is wrong with that? I met new people and recognized that they are in the same fraternity as me. We didn't share some kind of enlightened fraternal moment, we didn't create some kind of lasting enchanted fraternal bond..........we made friends and had a hell of a time.




Good talk, I'll see ya out there.

The funny thing is, in bashing me for not seeking "international brotherhood" through visiting brothers they devalue their own brotherhood and thus would come under question the farce of their own brotherhood.

If you truly find brotherhood in people you have never met, is your brotherhood worth anything anyways?

Wow...you "fratty" types are really stuck on yourselves. Good luck with all that.

PS- You're not better then everyone else and people make fun of you just like you make fun of the "gel heads". What a tiny little isolated wolrd you live in.

I'm not saying they're my best friends but we share the same fraternal values and rituals. Why shouldn't there be a bond? If you don't get t then you missed something along the way.

Yes there's some type of bond, but not one that I would put much weight on. I played football in high school, does that mean I share a brotherly bond with every high school football player in the country, considering we went through the same drills (rituals?). We're not denying that there's some link made by knowing the same secrets, just that that link isn't what we consider 'brotherhood'. Especially when as I mentioned before, there are people outside the organization that know the secrets, but that doesn't make them brothers. And I'd like to think that brotherhood means something more than a check sent to nationals.

Come back in 10 years and see who's laughing at who.

I'm glad not everyone is impressed by downright arrogance.

I don't see what the big deal is for a weekend stay unless it's really going to be a problem...like it's too hard to put them up for a few days or they might bring legal troubles.

A lot can happen in a weekend. One time, guys from a chapter that was visiting mine got in a bar fight at a campus bar... wearing letters. It's worse if there's no bond of friendship between the two chapters and the visiting chapter is in town just to party, and hasn't given the host chapter time to prepare or the option to decline.

With that said, the things discussed in this thread are decisions that only the President of the chapter has to make. For all other members of the chapter, whatever the situation, I'd say to be hospitable and give them whatever benefit of the doubt you think they deserve, but keep your eyes open. If you feel like it, you might direct them toward things you think they would enjoy, but that would keep them relatively out of trouble.

There's actually something in my pledge manual about this, I'll dig it up later.

How exactly are "we" (I use the term pretty loosely because I don't know what a "fratty type" is) stuck on ourselves? I'd be glad to know.

Nowhere have I claimed I'm better than anyone else.

Inferiority complex much?

You know what. You can go f**k yourself. There are basically what? Two or three of us in this thread that have had to pretty much constantly defend ourselves from the ignorant, unwarranted, bullshit claims that people like you make.

Once again, I want to know, how do I not "get brotherhood". How does EW not "get" brotherhood. You obviously haven't read a damn word I have said.

What have I said that would indicate that I think I'm "better" than everyone else. I have calmly and coherently addressed everything that has been said to me, whether legitimate or not......and all you can do is this? Tell me that I'm "stuck" on myself? I don't give a flying shit if people make fun of me....that's their problem.

While you're at it, tell me about this isolated little world I live in. Please, I want to hear about it. You are obviously man enough to talk shit on a message board.....how about you substantiate your claims.

If not then you can take your comments and shove them up your a**.

PS - While you're at it, learn how to spell. If you are going to feed me a bunch of insulting garbage, at least appear to be educated.

That's a legitimate concern, as I was saying...the visiting chapter just not being "cool" isn't.

Visiting chapters
 

Back to the op - I would look at it in the same respect as in dealing with distant family members. In true southern style, my family is spread far and wide, and we all know our genealogy. They are family, but that doesn't mean I would contact my second-cousin once removed and ask to be put up for the weekend. I would feel comfortable contacting a distant family member, saying I would be in the neighborhood and would like to meet them over lunch or dinner.
Same for my sorority sisters. I always feel a bond with my sisters whom I've meet from far and wide. If I were an active and some sisters called about visiting, I'd love to meet them - but without knowing them wouldn't commit to a weekend or to putting them up in the house. So - my take on it is if fraternity brothers from XYZ want to visit, I'd suggest they come visit the house for a tour, maybe tell them where the brothers meet on Friday night and offer to help them find a hotel to stay in. That would be enough hospitality, imho. If you are having an event like a football or basketball game they could attend with you, great.

You don't know that. If you claim that every single member of your organization holds your fraternity's values and rituals in the same light as you do...........then you are incredibly, incredibly naive.

Champ, there are member of your fraternity that joined so they could live in a fraternity house, drink, and screw. They don't care about your ritual or the values that your founding fathers preached. They care about learning it so they can get initiated. If you think otherwise, you need to get a clue.

You are so ass deep in trying to make us look like lesser fraternity men than yourself, you don't even realize how ridiculous the things you are saying truly are.


I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I "don't get it."

in my days in the house, we had sister guests from time to time. while we did not have a bad experience with any of the guests, they were in town to visit boyfriends or were passing thru on their way farther south and they treated the house more like just a place to stay. we did not issue them keys, so they had to work around our schedules for coming and going.

my father in law tells of a time in his fraternity house when they had visitors from another chapter staying, and the president of his chapter asked him and other brothers to give up their rooms for the weekend. when my fil returned to his room, he discovered that the visiting brother who had stayed there had helped himself to his clothes and bed linens.

When I was in school we called (I forget which it was) either our chapter at Penn State or the AGD chapter (my roomie's bio sister was an AGD) and wanted to come up and stay with them. They were not jazzed and said no. At the time we thought they were being bitchy, but when I look back we were the ones being jerks - it was on HOMECOMING weekend and they had to have tons of people there (and they don't have a house, just suites).

It's one thing to have 2 girls/guys come to visit, it's quite another to have a dozen plus.

Depending on the circumstances of course along with timing we must remember that if you are a vistor of another Chapter, act like ladies/gentlemen, Sisters/Brothers, or never be able to come again.

The respect is earned, not given because of ritual and name.

I totally agree; I would treat my sisters from other chapters with respect and would want the same respect if we had visiting sisters.

In the same vein of thought, I think the same thing applies for alumni who come back onto campus for various events. A fraternity I know of had a handful of alumni stay in the house over homecoming weekend and actually had to tell them that they were no longer welcome back overnight due to the destruction and horrific behavior that was displayed by these brothers.

The problem is, we'll likely never hear from him again in something similar to a hit-and-run.

Whatever. Making ad hominem attacks is something that is a specialty here.

Couldn't have said it better myself........this is Tom Earp correct?

They're already laughing (at you).

I'm not the one talking/bragging about tiers and dressing "fratty" and how my chapter is so much better then everyone else. So, how has the inferioirty complex? Hmmm..that'd be you.

Yeah, because I care so much about something I typed to 2 minutes in response to insignificant little piss ants like yourself who live in a little, isolated, parochial, self delusional world. You fratty types are not worth the effort of spell check.

Hahahhahahah.

Good cry there champ.

I don't need your charity, if you want to come across like an uneducated dumb......knock yourself out.

Bragging about tiers? In which way? That doesn't even make sense. In fact I degraded my University because I don't think it's all that good for Greek-life compared to the other Universities in the South. I would like to understand how that's "bragging" about anything

Even further I don't brag about dressing "fratty". It's just how someone is suppose to dress. It's not bragging. Just traditional. Normal.

This i've got to agree with. We have a similar situation (SECDomination... if you're a UF student then wow. The similarities are probably endless, or of course, I might just know you) where the attitudes are so different that it is awkward having them over. All the same, there's more than enough good in everyone not to have any trouble finding that for a weekend. Besides, I would at least expect the courtesy of being able to visit other chapters almost impromptu, so why wouldn't I extend that courtesy myself. housing... maybe some advance notice of about a week or two, but it looks like they did that.

Got em!

Damn. You guys are easily to get riled up. Its an internet forum, chill out. You shouldn't care what I think just like I don't care what you think. If I really offended anyone of you, I'm sorry. I was just yanking your chains.

I think it's fine to be cautious about who comes to stay in your house. Even with women's groups, I've seen a chapter that was more party oriented cause trouble on campus for a chapter that was more scholarly, reserved (at a campus that was more reserved in general). Sometimes the norm on one campus is NOT the norm at another and if members behave in a certain way, it can be a real detriment. Nobody is really going to remember that the people in letters who were out of control were not from YOUR chapter on YOUR campus and it can lead to real problems for everybody.

I think it's wise to sound them out, tread carefully, and determine, in advance, what their goal of visiting is.

Nice back-peddle douchebag.

If you didn't care what we thought you wouldn't have made a single one of your posts, especially the one in which you talked about visiting other chapters and going to see other chapter's initiations, etc. etc......none are indicative of someone just playfully yanking someone's chain.

We asked you repeatedly to explain many of the things you said, but apparently that was too big a task for you to comprehend.

(appearently it was too big of a task for you to comprehend it was said).

Well, I tired to be nice but its appearant that you are a docuhebag. I mixed actual facts in with ynaking your chain as it was evident it would be easy to do given your rampant inferiority complex.

Anyway, have fun being fratty and dressing like you stuck in the 80's with a little twist of "Revenge of The Nerds" (so how is Lambda Lambda Lambda?). You most defineitely were one of the kids that got thrwon into lockers in high school and now are overcompensating for it by professing some elitest snob bs and now you're acting all hard behing your computer. Its pricks like you that give fraternities a dad name. You're a joke.