ATO will always be on top, simply because it's ATO. They'll keep getting the same kind of guys, regardless of any social suspensions.

I had forgotten that Delt lost their recruiting priviledges for a couple semesters. Why was that anyway? It might have been before you got to UF though.

ETA: Delt has been participating in IFC rush for at least the last three semesters.

You're right, that's before I got to UF. I'm fairly certain that this last spring was their first spring class in some time... but then, I haven't paid that close attention to them.

The Sig Ep Chapter here just got a house, they are getting there. But the Southern Fraternities like SAE, KA, Sig Nu, ATO, and Kappa Sig really won't align themselves with them.

I dunno if they do this at other schools, but the big fraternities here like to get together and throw even bigger parties between them all. That way they have more money, can buy a better venue, and get a better band.

They usually leave Sig Ep out of the loop as far as i'm aware, they got a decent amount of guys from across the mason dixie and thats looked down upon here by most fraternities.

At more then half the houses they will show you the door if you were to say you were from Michigan without letting you speak.

Alright, who here posts on JuicyCampus?

Haha, my list from page 1 was copied and pasted to one of the UF threads over there!

To PhiGam
 

Thanks for your kind remarks about the Pikes and the house.
Two things:
First, my understanding is that your alumni are conducting a capital campaign to buy the "clubhouse". That option is there for Grove fraternities living in non-equity houses. I assume you'll bulldoze it and build an impressive house of your own design, connected to the gothic housing building. I hope you do it; Phi Gam has done really well since moving to the Grove. I don't kow what's going to happen with those two empty lots. ATO alumni tell me they're going to build, but they won't be back on campus until 2009 and I don't know how long it will take them to grow large enough to support a 60-man house. Who knows what will happen with the Sig Eps? They had already begun construction when they got suspended. I don't even know what the University's position is on their chapter.

Second, with respect, I don't understand your including KA in the first tier. I like the KAs; I thikn they're good guys. But they don't "do" anything. Nothing. They compete in the small fraternity intramural league and they don't do particulaly well. They have no campus leaders, varsity athletes, high profile members. From what I've seen, Phi Sig and Delts are far more aggressive, larger, more athletic and more popular. Again, I don't dislike KA. I just don't see them as a group to be anything special, and I don't think the top sororities do either.
Sigma Chi I understand. They don't "do" anything either, but they have a big chapter and they're popular with the top sororities.

Good luck to you in pursuing a new house. You should be able to raise the money and buy the clubhouse, and that will lead the way for other chapters to do the same.

ROTFLMAO. And isn't being popular what it is all about? :cool:

Get involved in student gov., philanthropies, etc.
OR
Sit on your ass with hot sorority girls.


I want to be in house B!

You've got it wrong Banditone; at least it's wrong here. On this campus all the top fraternities are considered to be such because the most impressive guys are drawn to them. All the top fraternities are paired with the top sororities. Some of the top houses, like Sigma Chi, pretty much ignore everything but social. No one cares; they're good. Others, like Delt and Phi Sig, are jock houses. No one cares; they're good and tied in with top sororities.
No one here defines a "top fraternity" by their commitment to philanthropy. Some do community service; some don't. The only defining characteristic for the top fraternities here is the quality of members and overall chapter size.

Disagree about chapter size

Numbers are still important. Your house could have Jimmy Buffet, Chipper Jones, and GW Bush and sororities still wouldn't mix with you because you have 4 guys.

Having over 120 guys is stupid though.

Sorry to intrude. I think you should ALWAYS research the one frat that is you, who you feel that you can bond with, etc. Remember, it is a lifelong decision. I would say who I think is the best but I don't know much about the IFC there at Haterville, I mean Gatorville! :) Best of luck!

I want to chime in here - I really love how the guys can discuss tiers and thoughts on why one group may rise above the next or be of a certain caliber (you get what I mean). This just isn't something that is easily done when discussing sororities. It is always drama and HUGE issues. Kuddos to you all for handling it well.

One thing - PADFSUGirl2K2, when you say research, what would you advise someone to do? I would like to hear your perpective on this.

Quite a few fraternities have over 120 here.

After you get above around...150 or so, brotherhood becomes a real challenge because theres just too many. At a tailgate in Little Rock two guys got in a fight and then came to find out they were brothers. That's just no good.

Kinda funny tho.

"We've got a little over 150, averaging about 45 per pledge class, plus about 10 spring guys, and of course we'll lose some older guys to dues, transfer, etc. That said I know who everyone in my chapter is."

Same here. We'll initiate 50 a year; with graduation losses and drop-outs, chapter size is stable at around 180. Brotherhood in a large chapter is enhanced by group identity and winning. Define winning any way you want; whatever fires up the Brothers and makes them proud.

However, I do believe the size of a chapter is natually tied to the campus. If you're at Virginia, there are 33 fraternities and the "best" fraternities have an average size of around 60.
If you're at Ole Miss, there are far fewer fraternities, but the top chapter sizes are very large. It depends on the culture of the campus. If you're at Ole Miss, you cannot effectively maintain a 60-man chapter and compete with the Phi Delts, Sigma Nus, Pikes, Sigma Chis, etc. (I know I'm missing some).

The chapter I was referring to actually has about 180-190. Around that, I believe. One has 200. Not sure if it includes pledges or not.

Yeah, you guys are huge here and I'm not saying that its bad for everyone, I just don't want to be in a fraternity that big.

I agree: like most things in greek life, it comes down to personal preference. I personally like a chapter size of around 90 or so, which translates to pledge classes of 22-25. We got a bit bigger than that a few years ago, and there was definitely a different feel to chapter meetings, etc.

With that said, I've never heard anyone in a big (150-180) chapter say "I wish this chapter was half this size, so we'd have a closer brotherhood."

Go to the websites of the fraternities or go to a member. I don't know about the IFC too much but this is what I was always told when I was looking into sororities.

how many fraternties do you have on your campus if you got 150+ guys in it?

ElephantWalk ("We've got a little over 150, averaging about 45 per pledge class") goes to the University of Arkansas; my campus is Florida State.
Arkansas has twelve IFC fraternities (I'm not counting one small ethnic fraternity), and Florida State has twenty (counting an unrecognized SAE chapter).

The number of fraternities has almost nothing to do with size of the top chapters. Penn State has over 50 fraternity chapters, but the prestige houses have 55-75 thereabouts. The University of Illinois has even more chapters than Penn State, but the top fraternities all have substantially over 100.

Actually we have 14 counting the ethnic one and the newest colony.

The colony has to get 105 to become a chapter, apparently.

That's not going to happen. They're going to have to bid every single person who didn't get a bid everywhere else and even then, they're not going to get the guys they need. With the start they've had...they're in bad shape.

edit: Not knowing specific recent figures, but having seen a year old one...I think there are 5 chapters that number above 150, LXA, KE, PDT, EX, SAE

I think it depends on what you're looking for. My chapter is at 135 right now, and I know every single guy fairly well. I don't mind the large numbers- it makes our campus seem a heck of a lot smaller.

And we're not even close to the biggest. Fourth or fifth, I think.
Sig Ep - A year ago they were over 170.
Beta - 150+
Phi Delt - 147 or something close
Kappa Sig - 135
Sigma Chi -130+
SAE and ATO hover around 100-110.

It's important here to have significant numbers, or our sororities of 180+ won't want to have socials with you.

ETA: Oh, and we have 26 IFC fraternities.

I'm always fascinated by the Pikes at FSU. Back in the day they were definitely NOT a top tier house, and in fact were on the low end of the middle tier. I think it was when they built that house in 1970 things started to turn around for them, but even then the PDT's and SAE's were at the top of the heap when I left.

They aren't really a southern-type fraternity. Its hard to rate them, sig ep, and phi sig because while they do really well with girls they aren't very well liked by other fraternities.

I'm curious to this. I'm a pike, but I'm north of the Mason dixon(yea i know, don't show me the door), but I was always under the impression that PIKE was a southern type fraternity, as they were formed in Virginia and are by far not one of the newest fraternities.


I know this probably isnt the right place to post this, but why is it that people view PIKE as a non-southern fraternity?

I may have answered my own question when there are chapters past the Mason Dixon.

well, if i were a guy, I'd go for Delta Tau Delta, talk about prime property to have a house!

(btw, i am ignorant of UF tiers, I was in UF-bound for a month before transferring to FSU)

It's not an issue of where they were founded, really...though it helps.

Pike has tended (as long as I've known and as many Pike chapters I've met) to rush athletes. Well-known for roids, tanning, spiked gelled hair, etc. like Barbed-wire tattoos and so forth. Most of the guys from the chapter here are from north Dallas/Plano area. Enough said, I think

I'll take a run at it, but I'm sure there is a wide range of opinion. My guess is that "southern" is a word used by those of us in the south to define a specific culture within fraternity life. I doubt that the word is used outside the south as a definitive term.
There are very "southern" campuses like Alabama and Ole Miss where the predominant campus culture is defined by a specific style of dress and behavior. Within fraternities at those schools, for instance, there is often a racial (but not necessarily racist) element to the "southern" definition.

If I was to define what a "southern" fraternity is like, I'd say they dress in whatever style is considered preppy (today that means pastel polos and certain brands of shoes and khakis and blazers), they are very social, not overly concerned with athletic competition (nor perhaps competition of any kind), and tend to have very rigorous pledge programs. They are large chapters, very successful, tend to pledge boys from the best families concentrated in specific cities, and benefit from the loyalty of generous alumni.

My observation is that there are schools in the deep south where the entire fraternity atmosphere is overwhelmingly "southern". Any fraternity that deviates from that will find it very difficult to be considered among the selective elite on that campus. And when I say "to be considered" I mean by elite peers and by the best sororities.

That said, there are also campuses in the south (I'm familiar with all the public universities in Florida) with large, prosperous greek systems where different types of fraternities pursue different but parallel cultures, and you don't have to be "southern" to be counted among the elite by the top sororities and other elite peers.

I was asked by national officers of another fraternity about the campus fraternity culture at Florida State, to help them evaluate the approach they'll take when they colonize. I told them the system is very strong, but FSU is not a purely "southern" campus and there are different paths to the elite circle. If you want to get to the top here, you have a lot of cultural flexibility but there are things you must not do.

Here's what I said,
First, do not pledge openly homo members. It is probably acceptable in the northeast and on the west coast but not in the south. And it's not unacceptable in just "southern" fraternities, but in all elite fraternities on major campuses in the south. I watched that issue help destroy one the strongsest FSU fraternities four or five years ago. I imagine that any large group of handsome, well-dressed undergrads possibly has some homosexual members, but in the elite chapters these men have enough grace and sense of loyalty to their brothers to conceal that behavior, at least until after college.

Second, the "south Florida" influence is strong in all Florida schools in terms of hair, clothes and lifestyle. This is very different than the look of the "southern fraternities"; however fraternities with both styles are accepted into the elite.

Third, racial diversity is OK. You're not going to see blacks in the "southern fraternities"; or if they are there its certainly not in any numbers. On a campus where the social atmosphere is entirely "southern", recruiting a racially diverse membership will damage a chapter's chance of being taken seriously by the top-rated peers and sororities. However, at FSU "southern" and non-southern fraternities are equally accepted in the elite circles. These attitudes probably reflect the attitude of the broad culture of this state.

So, among the twenty IFC fraternities at FSU, the top tier includes both "southern" (Sigma Chi, Lambda Chi, KA) as well as the less culturally southern chapters who stress sports and leadership and have some racial diversity (Pike, Delt, Phi Sig, and Sig Ep before they got kicked off) and non-southern fraternities that emphasize [I don't know what to call it] "involvement" in campus organizations and winning community service awards, like Phi Tau and Theta Chi.

To the poster who said he generally observed Pike as the athlete fraternity on the campuses he's seen: yes that's true but I have no idea why. Jay Langhammer, an alumnus of Delta Tau Delta who writes articles on greek athletes for various fraternities' magazines, says that Pike has by far more major varsity athletes at D-I schools...but he doesn't know why and no one else seems to know either.

Co-sign.

At Florida/Florida State...other Southern Universities...there's two thoughts on the tier-system. Yeah, you can put Florida State Pike top-tier in terms of most members, girls, house, etc. But by most peoples thinking, they would put them 2nd tier.

I don't know the deal why Pike is always athletic...but it seems across the board almost. I do know that they have "SLAG"...scholars/leaders/athletes/...generals? haha I don't remember what the last one stands for. I don't know how long they've been doing "SLAG", but still...emphasizing athletics is kind of a queer way to go about rush as a motto.

Good post, Firehouse. That pretty much sums it up. Here at UF, there are about 7 fraternities that are on top, fighting to stay on top, or trying to break into the top- and only two have any amount of SoFla tendencies.

Gentlemen.
I've seen Sigma Chi shirts here that say the same thing.

From a southern girl's point of view, SAE is the best at Florida. Even if they do wear orange... :)

Can you sum up (again) what the So-Fl tendencies actually are? I would like to have some insight into this stereotype.

sunglasses at night
talking on the cell phone in the elevator, on the bus, or in the library
livestrong bracelets
Jewish
oxfords with obnoxious vertical stripes
New York or Boston accents

Ha! That's one of the funniest things I've read. please, allow me to add some:

Wearing your collar outside your coat;
More than one ring on your hand;
Wearing jewelry anyplace on your body that your girlfriend might wear on hers;
A tattoo in any language other than English;
Winning the "Miami Vice Lookalike" contest;
Can recite entire scenes of the movie "Scarface" from memory;
Enjoys fishing, but uses explosive devices instead of a rod & line;
Prefers pistols over long guns;

If I may:

Steps anywhere in the vicinity of a tanning booth/self-tanner;
Overly tweezed eyebrows (guys should really only fix uni-brows);
Shaves any part of his body other than his face;
Abercrombie & Fitch/Hollister;
Unbuttons his oxford to show off his chest (seriously, that's nasty);
Rocks gold chains.

You just don't know 80's cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXw4qqQqTrY

The only time you should be wearing sunglasses at night is if you are too dosed at a concert and the light show is scaring you.

Man, you guys are soooooooooo cool.