Wow! I'm sorry you feel this way. I know that women can be harsh, critical and selfish at times, but the vast majority that I have met over the past 32 years are caring, sweet, good-hearted people who would do for others before doing for themselves. They are our mothers, sisters and friends. I am proud to be a woman! :)

"Of course"???? I think you give guys too much credit. I was pretty surprised that the guys owned up in her story. I think that's a rarity.

The pissant frat boys who gang-raped my Kappa Delta sister suffered no consequences at all. They just went on their merry way and actually had the audacity to ask us to do Homecoming with them.

I couldn't agree more! Not to mention, is "I'm sorry" good enough?

No. It's being truthful without shoving sunshine up anyone's asses.

I'm not insulting myself, or my sisterhood. I've been evil at times, I admit. And men are the same way... they just aren't catty like women. Like someone said, men will have fights or whatever, but in the end they'll all laugh and have a beer. Girls get vicious.

I'm sorry PM_Mama, but I personally will never be convinced that the idea that some women have the capacity to be vicious means that all women are evil. That is a HUGE leap.

The capacity to be mean in certain circumstances (which is a human trait) does not equate to evilness.

I expect they probably figured out she was black before they pledged her.

As for the Catholics, I can only speak for the SEC schools I went to but there were loads of Greek Catholics on the campuses; Pi Phi had a whole bunch of them from Mobile. Nobody thought they were any different from the Protestants.

The Jews? Out of the hundreds of other students I met at my schools, I only knew one Jewish guy and his fraternity (AEPi) was tiny; Auburn, Arkansas, and Mississippi State weren't exactly loaded down with Jews. But y'know, this has nothing to do with our morality at the time. That statement was totally random and a very strange thing to see stated as fact from one who wasn't there.

While I think PM_Mama's statement was over the top, I do understand what she is saying. And in someways I agree based on personal experiences.

Wow. I'm not even sure what else to say to that. Well, that and pointing out the concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Its unfortunate that your experiences have brought you to that conclusion. :(

I have told this story on here before. She pledged Chi O. She was initiated into Chi O. A traveling consultant from Chi O then came and said "WHAT? We can't have black sisters!" and she quit rather than make her chapter kick her out. This was in the early 1970s at a liberal arts college in Wisconsin.

You must have attended college later than my mother and her friends, who were in school in the early 70s as well.

That statement wasn't random. You assert that sororities are exactly the same as they used to be except recruitment. I am showing you an example of how that isn't true.

And to get back off the "let's derail anything GeekyPenguin posts because I think she has a hidden agenda about me for some reason" train, I think what happened to this women is really unfortunate. Many women look to sororities to provide a strong, empowering female experience and that clearly isn't what she got.

I wonder if it had more to do with the consultant than Chi Omega's HQ? A single bigot can wreak havoc in any organization.

But we're derailing the article & main topic of this thread. Doesn't anyone else wonder if the New York Times would be in a hurry to print an article on "How I Pledged 21 Years Ago, and It Was One of the Best Moves I Ever Made"?

Exactly! Her statement may have a bit over the top but it does hold some truth. There is a reason for the statement "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".

I think there's a level of truthfulness that can be obtained without asserting that all women are evil, particularly since there is no way possible physically that you have met all the women in the world. Was Eleanor Roosevelt evil? Was Mother Theresa evil? Were all the other women, alive, and dead, that suffered for their country, cause, or creed, evil? I beg to differ. That's not "shoving sunshine up anyones asses," as you so flagrantly put it, that is looking at the world with an optimistic view, as opposed to a hopeless view.

Same here


Bottom line.


I agree

I didn't mean that your statement was random-- I meant that cuteASAbug's was, I don't want to derail your posts, and I attended college in the early seventies. (In the Deep South.) I also hate derailing threads. However, it's important to me and to the other older women who post here that the Greek system of that time be defended.

And many sororities pledged people back in the day who were non-white or partially non-white. *Like me.* The people who recommended us and the ones who pledged us knew it and certainly several national consultants who dropped by could tell.

As far as the women vs men in terms of interacting - and women being "evil", I don't think it's true at all.

For the most part, men will call you on your shit while women won't. Women will hang onto cliquiness and grudges longer than men will. But this is definitely NOT a female only behavior - trust me I know some "drama kings" - example, inviting all your exes and one or 2 girls you want to shtup to a party you're having. A man who does that is NOT trying to avoid drama.

Some women are horrible evil bitches, but not all of them. Saying that most women hate their best friend - well, maybe that's true in high school when you're thrown together according to your activities/looks/family name, but those aren't really "friendships." It's certainly not in college or later, unless a woman doesn't let her true self show. I know my best friend and I had times when we were younger when we were so up each others' butts we knew it was driving everyone else nuts and ready to drive us nuts, so we just hung out w/ other people for a while.

Evil vs. Not Nice
 

I think one problem here is the term "evil". That's a pretty loaded term. Luckily, very few people are what I would term "evil". Are people 100% moral and righteous all of the time? No - but most of us try, and our level of "badness" doesn't descend into the "evil" category.

And all the world's a rainbow.

I think we all have different definitions for the term "evil". And yes... all the women I've met have been evil in some way... whether it was towards another woman or to a man.

So true. Until she does let go and moves on, this event and these people will continue to have power over her on a daily basis. Twenty years is a lifetime to hold onto this poison and she needs to let go. She can't change what happened to her but for her own mental functionality, she needs to change how she looks at it. Obviously she doesn't have to like it but she needs to come to terms with it and stop allowing these people to have power over her life after all these years.

My co-worker was telling me about this article today at work. Before I got to read it we were chatting just in general about women and our relationships together. We commented on the fact that when you put women together in social settings, more times than not, we don't get along. There's too much competition, jealousy, etc etc. So I think your statement is true in many ways.

Yeah, I misread that the first time--I thought it said that it was stopped BEFORE any inappropriate contact, but I am not reading that now. Ugh. How sad. I hope, for her daughters, she does something about how she is feeling.

I'm sorry you have that attitude about all women. You are missing out on a lot of powerful and life-changing friendships with all of us who are not evil.

What's wrong with dentistry as a profession? Dentists make good money.....

the only thing I can think of is the girl asking what daddy did for a living had a fear of dentists?

they ripped this article apart on jezebel.com today.

Yeah, I couldn't find it. Want to link?

I have felt alienated from several of my sorority sisters. I have always been that oddball, that march to the tune of a different drummer--mine. It's liken to you either love me or you don't. What hurts about this woman's case is that she thought she was past her pain, and it came crashing into her with recognition. And at the time of "confession", the "you know that was college"--that was the time to bust homegirl's bubble. You have no reason to crush her reality, but how come superwoman felt the need to "recognize Kathy Dick!" As if she discovered a long lost treasure?

That is why one has be mindful of what he or she says to one another...

ETA: My mother use to work with a secretary. Oneday, her secretary's hifalutin' friend strolled in the door and wailed about how well she knew the secretary and how they grew up and was happy to see her, saying that she was the most popular woman in the world and how the hifalutin' friend was envious of her. After the hifalutin' friend left, my mom's secretary proceeded to tell her, that when she got home, her mother would lock into a closet and physically abuse her...

http://jezebel.com/gossip/mean-girls/-329425.php

I almost missed it the second time I looked at it...

btw how did I not know that this website existed? I like!

/end hijack ... too tired to respond intelligently to topic :o

They make GOOD money, but it seems like her house was full of girls whose daddies were presidents of oil companies or CFOs of Microsoft. There's a difference between being extremely comfortable and being able to afford ANYTHING you want on a whim.

That's what I surmised. The look was because he was ONLY a dentist.

Were dentists making that great of money back then? Seems like with all the dental cosmetic surgeries and alll the things you can do with teeth these days are newer and more expensive.

Yes, because insurance companies weren't as stingy and restrictive regarding treatment back then, as they are now.
Due to this, a lot of dentists no longer take "assignment" (i.e. the norm is fast becoming where the patient must pay the dentist and then get reimbursed [usually partially, not fully] from the insurance company).

That makes total sense.

Is anyone else on here from the Bay Area? The author lives in the same TINY town in the Bay Area as my parents, so I immediately asked my mom if she knew her (she does not).

Anyway, Piedmont has a very small-town vibe and I feel that this story may/will haunt this woman and her daughters in the town (and their schools) for many years to come. I was wondering if anyone else on here familiar with the Bay Area had thoughts on this.

Is it just me or is this thread a very interesting case study?

Was she actually initiated when she was forced out or a pledge? I got the impression the frat guy was a pledge.

good point, and God forbid her daughters grow up and want to rush. i'd hope she'd be open minded, but being that she is holding a grudge more than 20 years after the fact... i doubt she would be, IMO

It seems to me that she must have been a pledge. I don't know of too many sisterhoods that would just throw her out. However, I don't know of when pledges or new members as we call them now, would be living in the house... The whole story is a bit weird. I don't know what sisterhood it was, so I have no idea of what their rules are or were.

A lot of schools had bed rush back in the day--each sorority's quota was the number of beds available in the house for new members--and the pledges moved right into the house after rush.

Thank you Carnation! :)

How long were pledge periods? She mentions that it was two months before the "ledge" incident happened, and then a few weeks later when she was put on probation.

In the 80's pledge periods were almost a semester long. I pledged in September and initiated in February.