Okay, I understand where you are coming from. And it is quite disappointing to go to a NPHC step show and have only 3 teams show up with the same old steps.

As long as some other GC members (IFC) can make comments about us, then I can make comments about your glos.

Greek unity? White and black greeks are still largely segregated, which was started by IFC and NPC glos. It's 2007 and you still practice this. Why?

No they didn't, especially having the black dude as part of the act to make them look more hip. That didn't help, that just made them look even more pathetic to me.

Then, whoever the joker was who put this on youtube had the nerve to say "This is how stepping is done." Probably a member who was trying to say something, but didn't.

Who is the YOU and what is the THIS. Neither I nor my chapter discriminated among members or PNMs based on their race. My organization makes it a policy not to discriminate based on race. I don't deny there are racist members of my organization, but I haven't met one, and I wouldn't let it slide if I did. Events that bring all organizations together are designed specifically to prevent/mitigate/resolve the separation of the NPC and IFC and the NPHC. Honestly, the most common complaint I hear is that XYZ invited the D9 groups to participate but got no response. So, to do what you did: Why are YOU still doing THIS? :rolleyes: It's not that simple is it?


[QUOTE=PrettyBoy;1526164]No they didn't, especially having the black dude as part of the act to make them look more hip. That didn't help, that just made them look even more pathetic to me.

/QUOTE] Odds are he was one of their coaches.

PB, I don't think you get the context of saying they were cute.

I have to admit I actively disliked seeing the KKGs expressing themselves with this 'stepping' or 'strolling'. It was really poorly done ... I may have felt differently if they had rocked it ....? not sure. Maybe I'm old-school (okay, I am old-school!), but I prefer to see stepping maintained as a BGLO expression. There is sooooo much borrowing, and then coopting, of African-American expressions without acknowledgement or appreciation of the origins .. well, it can be hard to take. I'm sure the girls meant no harm, tho'.

That being said, I have a special place in my heart for KKG, because my room-mate was a KKG sister and she supported me MAJORLY when I 'pledged' .... Go Holly! :D

[quote=Drolefille;1526179]Who is the YOU and what is the THIS. Neither I nor my chapter discriminated among members or PNMs based on their race. My organization makes it a policy not to discriminate based on race. I don't deny there are racist members of my organization, but I haven't met one, and I wouldn't let it slide if I did. Events that bring all organizations together are designed specifically to prevent/mitigate/resolve the separation of the NPC and IFC and the NPHC. Honestly, the most common complaint I hear is that XYZ invited the D9 groups to participate but got no response. So, to do what you did: Why are YOU still doing THIS? :rolleyes: It's not that simple is it?[quote]


When I said you, I didn't mean "you" Drolefille. I meant groups under your umbrella group. Sorry I didn't clarify that better.

I already know your founders judged women based on color. My question to you is how long was it before your organization allowed the 1st non-white to become a member? A long time wasn't it?

Oh yeah, I've heard of that too. I heard D9 members being invited to IFC/NPC events and didn't show. That's nothing new to me.

I don't know who the joker was in the video, and you don't either. Rather he was a trainer or not, doesn't make a difference. The way I saw it was they seemed to have used this joker to make them look more hip. He looked like a damn fool to me.

I already know your founders judged women based on color. My question to you is how long was it before you're organization allowed the 1st non-white to become a member? A long time wasn't it?
An article on what happened.
See, I don't deny that racism not only existed within my organization, but within the members who ran it. However, you can't only look at that while ignoring the fact that it was members who changed it. I'm not going to live in guilt over what my predecessors did, I'm going to work to make my sorority better. But that doesn't matter to you, because all you care about is that a handful of women in the late 1800s were (likely) racist. DUH. Living in the past is a waste of time. I don't choose not to associate with people who's ancestors were racist, I choose not to associate with people who are racist. There's a huge difference and that's the one I'm calling you out on in these threads.
Oh yeah, I've heard of that too. I heard D9 members being invited to IFC/NPC events and didn't show. That's nothing new to me.

I don't know who the joker was in the video, and you don't either. Rather he was a trainer or not, doesn't make a difference. The way I saw it was they seemed to have used this joker to make them look more hip. He looked like a damn fool. [/QUOTE]
Who made him participate? It's his own choice. He's just as likely to have enjoyed coaching/helping them out.

(Again, I'm not saying that KKG is oh so cool, just that you're comparing little leaguers to the Major Leagues and you're acting all up your ass about it. )

At 1st I didn't. I do now. LOL. Thanks for that.:)
If that's what it means then I'll say they were VERY cute. LMAO!:D

C'mon, Pretty Boy - give us some credit!
 

I have had personal experience with the D9 being "too good" to do anything with the NPC/NIC. My alumnae panhellenic has tried to include BGLOs - but to no avail. It is this sort of attitude that is keeping Greeks from uniting.
You will look in vain for any discriminatory language in my sorority's constitution or bylaws - from the time of our founding onwards. I see plenty of minority Gamma Phis - so I can't buy your argument about discrimination. In fact, it is my understanding that we were the first NPC to pledge a black at the University of Alabama. Does it still exist in places? I'm sure it does - but it is not sanctioned by the International Org., and I think hearts and minds are becoming more loving and open as time goes by.
I also know that my sisters and NPC cousins have done incredible things in the area of philanthropy - so Pretty Boy, you really have no reason to say that once we are your equals in social programs you will talk to us. I give all kinds of credit to the D9 for what they have acomplished - why can't you do the same for NPC/NIC?
It is possible for our GLOS to be different, yet unite in presenting ourselves as forward thinking, progressive organizations dedicated to personal and societal improvement. But it's not going to happen with the kind of criticism you have chosen to indulge in. No, KKG is not going to be able to step as well as an organization that does it on a regular basis, and that has a tradition it has preserved over the years. But does that mean you should insult them when they try to participate in something that means a great deal to BGLOs? Having learned how difficult it is, don't you think that the KKG members will have respect for the skills demonstrated by the BGLOs?
It is a given they will not be on the level of the D9 - I like Drolefille's minor/major league analogy. But can't you give them a break, Pretty Boy? I honestly believe that the only way Greeks can continue is to present a united front - that all of us are worthwhile, whatever our individual differences. I think any activity that encourages participation from the BGLO and traditionally WGLO is a good thing. Heck, if you want to laugh at NPC ineptitude at stepping, go ahead. Just don't be mean and hateful about it.
eta - I'm with y'all about the slang and "attitude". That's not good . . .but my main point still stands.

Who made him participate? It's his own choice. He's just as likely to have enjoyed coaching/helping them out.

(Again, I'm not saying that KKG is oh so cool, just that you're comparing little leaguers to the Major Leagues and you're acting all up your ass about it. )[/quote]
Drolefille thanks for that, and I see your point. I also respect you and appreciate you, but this is an example I copied from another poster that I can't just let go. History is history, but it's still happening. Why is color (especially black) such a big issue with your people?

Ole Miss Suspends Frat for One Year
By REGINA L. BURNS
Associated Press Writer

JACKSON, Miss. — A University of Mississippi fraternity has been suspended for a year after a black student said he was the victim of a racial slur and a physical assault at a party, school officials said Friday.
Freshman Jeremiah Taylor, 18, said he was pushed down the stairs while attending a Delta Kappa Epsilon party Aug. 22 on the Oxford campus, according to school officials. The student newspaper, The Daily Mississippian, reported Friday on its Web site that Taylor said he was called the N-word at the party.

Taylor, of Southaven, filed a complaint on Aug. 24 with the Dean of Students' office, said Jeffrey Alford, Associate Vice Chancellor for university relations at Ole Miss.

Alford said the party got out of hand and people were asked to leave. Taylor told Mississippi Public Broadcasting in a Sept. 10 radio report that he was on his way downstairs, when "a guy in an orange shirt threw a beer can at me and hit me in my left shoulder." Then others shoved him down the stairs, he said.

Ole Miss officials said Friday the school's judicial council had found the historically white fraternity guilty of violations of harassment, assault, disorderly conduct, possession of alcohol and hosting an unauthorized party.
Alford said the fraternity was also fined $1,000, which will be used to fund an alcohol and drug education program; its members were required to perform 20 hours of community service and attend a racial sensitivity program. Members can continue to live at the residence, but they cannot recruit or socialize, he said.

The newspaper reported this is the first strike against the fraternity in the school's two-strike alcohol policy.

When asked by The Associated Press if this was the first time Ole Miss had suspended a fraternity for racial slurs and harassment, Alford said, "I don't know. It certainly is the first time in recent memory."

He said that all Ole Miss freshmen take a creed that says "I believe in respect for the dignity of each person."

He didn't say that. What I said was: "When NIC and NPC Greeks start having a social action program that rivals NPHC orgs, then maybe we'll have something to talk about."

Philanthropy and community service is not what I mean by social action. Also, if you look at that out of context, sure, it does look like I'm saying what you think I'm saying, but I'm not. Not really, at least.

Sorry for getting the posters confused.
And I am afraid that everyone has their mind made up, and is going to insist on being insulted whether or not that was the intent, so I'm bowing gracefully out, simply saying that I have and always have had the greatest respect for the D9, but have quite frankly become tired of being belittled and insulted for the "crime" of belonging to a NPC org.
Y'all just feel free to go on and on about the heinous crime committed by those KKGs. HOW DARE THEY. Indeed.
Don't bother responding - I won't be checking back here or anything. I apologize for intruding. :(

And I'm tired of being belittled, and insulted for the crime of being black.

People don't do whatever they don't do for a number of reasons. It's easy to draw conclusions. It's more difficult to talk to people and find out why they aren't participating.

What attitude? You didn't say anything.

A black what?

They looked cute to me. Not particularly on point in every move, but cute because they seemed to be having fun and were representing THEIR sorority.

I agree with you about the black dude but that could easily be interpreted as a shout out to whoever helped them. :)

Who?

This is apparently about so much more than stepping for PrettyBoy.

But this topic is only about stepping for many people and especially for many members of the NPC. How do I know? Because this and similar topics have been topics for yeaaaaars in mixed settings.

So since PrettyBoy is talking about racism and what not, let us be reminded that those types of discussions don't do well on GreekChat. Plus that topic seems a bit misplaced, anyway.

Don't. Thanks.

Please don't go there! The Nupes have a Loving Cup song, right? Did they not somehow "steal" the concept from Beta Theta Pi? And didn't white fraternities contribute to the ritualistic foundations of your fraternity?

Getting bent out of shape about this and protesting about white groups imitating our customs and traditions is like a man (or woman) pruning a tree and mistakenly sawing off the limb they are sitting on.

:confused:

I love my Soror...she makes me laugh out loud at 11pm when there is nothing to watch on tv...that is all.

Drolefille thanks for that, and I see your point. I also respect you and appreciate you, but this is an example I copied from another poster that I can't just let go. History is history, but it's still happening. Why is color (especially black) such a big issue with your people?

Ole Miss Suspends Frat for One Year
By REGINA L. BURNS
Associated Press Writer

JACKSON, Miss. — A University of Mississippi fraternity has been suspended for a year after a black student said he was the victim of a racial slur and a physical assault at a party, school officials said Friday.
Freshman Jeremiah Taylor, 18, said he was pushed down the stairs while attending a Delta Kappa Epsilon party Aug. 22 on the Oxford campus, according to school officials. The student newspaper, The Daily Mississippian, reported Friday on its Web site that Taylor said he was called the N-word at the party.

Taylor, of Southaven, filed a complaint on Aug. 24 with the Dean of Students' office, said Jeffrey Alford, Associate Vice Chancellor for university relations at Ole Miss.

Alford said the party got out of hand and people were asked to leave. Taylor told Mississippi Public Broadcasting in a Sept. 10 radio report that he was on his way downstairs, when "a guy in an orange shirt threw a beer can at me and hit me in my left shoulder." Then others shoved him down the stairs, he said.

Ole Miss officials said Friday the school's judicial council had found the historically white fraternity guilty of violations of harassment, assault, disorderly conduct, possession of alcohol and hosting an unauthorized party.
Alford said the fraternity was also fined $1,000, which will be used to fund an alcohol and drug education program; its members were required to perform 20 hours of community service and attend a racial sensitivity program. Members can continue to live at the residence, but they cannot recruit or socialize, he said.

The newspaper reported this is the first strike against the fraternity in the school's two-strike alcohol policy.

When asked by The Associated Press if this was the first time Ole Miss had suspended a fraternity for racial slurs and harassment, Alford said, "I don't know. It certainly is the first time in recent memory."

He said that all Ole Miss freshmen take a creed that says "I believe in respect for the dignity of each person."[/QUOTE]
So the fact that there are still racist members of fraternities means that there is no inherent value to them? You didn't actually address anything, just pushed it off onto "look, these guys were racist and in a fraternity." That does not mean that our organizations are racist.
But what do you expect people to do about it? Apologize to you daily for people who used to do? For what other people do today?

None of "my" people have any difficulty accepting "your" people. If you want an explanation and history of racism in this country as well as around the world you're going to need to look elsewhere. The NPC accepts all races/creeds/etc. Your experiences on specific campuses or at specific chapters are not representative of "my" people. Do not represent "us" by the worst of "our" people. Yes they are part of the whole, but what is hidden cannot be removed.

I think it would be smart to be a lot more specific about whom you're addressing here. Some racist frat boy in Mississippi is not my people. And I'm sure said racist frat boy would say the same about me if someone suggested that "his people" includes pinko Ivy League Jews like myself.
________
The Legend Condo Pattaya

Quite honestly, this was all I read of your post because it struck a chord with me. This has been a major issue for me since I pledged waaaaaaaay back in '02 (:D). I understand that NPC/NIC has more of a social function than service but whenever we were invited to do anything, it was to step or teach people to step. No one ever wanted to co-sponsor a book club or a speaker series or service event--just stepping. Because we're more than entertainment, we would decline the offers to participate in events with people who would never speak to us except to invite us to such events. We were never invited to their parties, or anything else--just to stpe.

That sucks. I do know that since the D9 chapters weren't campus organizations, we weren't allowed to invite them for things like Greek week and such. (City wide chapters) However, I think another big misunderstanding is the size of D9 chapters can be very very small. How are they going to compete in a Greek week on even terms? My sister had no idea even though they've been trying to have Greek-wide events on her small campus for a long time. But I think in many cases, both sides aren't communicating.

Marc Broussard...

I know, I am just adding fuel to this fire... ;)

And he has a Myspace Page.

Wow. Tell me he was lip-synching. :rolleyes:

City-wide chapters ARE campus orgs, they just have more than one campus included in their charter.

I think you are demonstrating exactly what MeezDiscreet is talking about. Why does it have to be YOUR Greek Week on YOUR terms?! Why not a totally new activity that was created by and uses the cultural traditions of BOTH sets of orgs without bias from one or the other?

No, he isn't.


This is actually a very typical (socially unconcious) white person response. Congrats.

My chapter struggled through that. If a chapter has 5 members, the whole chapter is basically the Greek Week team. That doesn't allow any flexibility or anything.

My chapter had some close relations with a couple of other orgs on campus. Only because we made an effort to establish friendships with people who just so happened to be Tri Delts or Sigma Chis, etc. Then we were able to see if service and scholastic collaborations were possible or if we could hang out at social events.

If not for that, our experiences were just like you recalled.

No stepping involved
 

. . .I'd just like to get some involvement from D9 sororities with the NPC cervical cancer awareness program. But no luck. :(