haha, I know what you mean. Wouldn't we know if an organization has that policy though? It seems like that would be an aspect of MS that would be tough to keep a secret.

I completely agree with you- in fact while I was a collegian (way back in the days before Greek chat) we assumed that both of these organizations HAD to keep their legacies and that's why I thought that perhaps there were some organizations that kept their legacies on barring academic issues.

I do know that there are a few orgs that require a call to the legacy's relative with a reason before they can cut a PNM. Maybe those chapters would rather just suck it up and take the girl than have to call an alum and explain why they're not taking her precious angel.

I can't imagine many things worse during recruitment than calling a sister and telling her that her daughter is being released. Eek.

Boy, I know what would be worse. Either getting the call or not getting the call and finding out from your legacy. I know a mom and first daughter in one group and the second daughter was released last year and the chapter never called, the second daughter did--in hysterics. Mom went there immediately and the daughter pledged another group but Mom and first daughter haven't recovered yet. They wrote to their national office but only got the stock response--"we're sorry, each chapter makes its own membership selections".

Actually, few women around here do get the call when their daughters are released. There are just so many....

Yes, we would. At my alma mater, the sororities were required to disclose their legacy policies. Specifically, we were required to provide a definition of who is a legacy, and what we were required to do (invite her to the first invitational round, put her on the first bid list if she attends pref), but not how difficult it would be to, say, cut a legacy before pref.

I don't think any org makes it flat out impossible to release a legacy. What if the legacy has a bad reputation, or just plain isn't a good fit? A chapter could be pressured to keep a legacy, but if she's not a good fit, she's not a good fit, and she should be released.

We leave it up to the woman to notify her family.

okay we had to let the girls who were cut from their legacy let their loved ones know. It sucked. I wasnt told till I got my list of what houses I was going to be going to.

In case any of you are wondering i pledged






















Dolphin



Which is















Alpha
Gamma
Delta

Yay! Sorry we sidetracked your thread with that discussion though :)

Dolphin - ALPHA GAMMA DELTA
Squirrel - DELTA GAMMA
Horse - ALPHA CHI OMEGA
White Tiger - SIGMA KAPPA
Beavers - KAPPA ALPHA THETA
Panda - KAPPA DELTA
Bear - KAPPA KAPPA GAMMA
Cheetah - ALPHA PHI
Monkey CHI OMEGA
Kangaroo DELTA DELTA DELTA
Lion PI BETA PHI
Wild cat GAMMA PHI BETA

here are the chapters... I didnt mean to disrespect any one of them. I had friends in many chapters.

Interesting. Is this the national or local policy of your group? Did you decide on it for philosophical or purely pragmatic reasons?

I'm interested in how it evolved that way.

I can understand that it's primarily the PNM's business where she's invited back, but from the perspective of an alumna, if I had a legacy for whom I completed a legacy form, and she rushed at a campus with my group, especially if it were my own campus with my chapter, I would want to hear from the chapter that they had released her. It's somewhat about my legacy, but it's also about my relationship with the chapter.

Because, I'll be honest, at the point I had a legacy cut by a chapter, I think I'm done with that chapter in terms of interest and support. Your rejection of my flesh and blood, particularly if you aren't a group at a campus with hundreds of legacies where a chapter couldn't possible give bids to them all, is going to put a big dent in my feeling of connection to you.

At least, you could reach out to me with a phone call, or so it seems to me.

How did Gamma Phi Beta view the issue?

In the most recent edition of The Crescent, ( you can find it at www.gammaphibeta.org) there is a legacy introduction form. On it, it states that it is the policy of Gamma Phi Beta to allow the legacy to notify her mother/grandmother/person who makes her a legacy. So, International HQ's policy is to leave it up to the PNM.

I actually like that we do this. Let's say that Suzy PNM is going through recruitment and after Day 2 she decides that she just doesn't like the Gamma Phi chapter that she iis an in-house legacy to and she is happier at the other houses she's visited. This way rather than saying "Mom, I hate your house and have ranked it last every day waiting to get dropped" she can just tell her mom/sister that she isn't going back to Gamma Phi, or even tell a little white lie and say she didn't get invited back. Maybe she'd rather wait to the end of recruitment and then just tell her mom how happy she is in XYZ.

Do you know how or why it got to be the policy? Has it always been that way?

(I understand why from a purely pragmatic and bureaucratic standpoint why it might be the "best" policy, but it seems like it would cause a great deal of harm over time with alumnae who had legacies released. I don't know, maybe it turns out that the phone call doesn't help anyway: if you cut the PNM, maybe nothing the chapter does affects the mother's future behavior with the chapter.

I generally think honesty among family members is the best route when it comes to explaining why you made the decisions that you have. I doubt that much long lasting harm will come of a girl choosing a group other than her legacy group if it's her choice, but maybe my family dynamics are exceptionally healthy that way. My experience is that we want other members of our families first to be happy with the decisions that they make. It's a bonus if they think they will be happy in our groups, but it's really not a big deal if they choose to go a different route.

On the other hand, no matter how much we value our groups, most of us in life as alums don't care about them as much as we do our own sisters, daughters or granddaughters. I can easily see alums who are a whole lot less likely to support a chapter who cut their legacies.
It would seem that maintaining relationships with the alumna member has a real value, and I wonder how Gamma Phi Beta reached the decision that they did, not that it's really any of my business.

It's possible that making the calls was creating a ton of ill will and hometown gossip while recruitment was still going on. And I certainly know that Gamma Phi Beta knows what's best for their organization. I'm not second guessing that. I just wonder how and why it evolved the way it did, and I wonder if more groups will go to it.

It certainly seems easiest in terms of membership selection and notification for the chapter in the short term.

That's kind of petty. You and your (fictional) daughter aren't the same person. The CHAPTER itself is not the same. You'd rather they kept your (fictional) daughter, no matter how bad of a fit she is with the house? What if she rushed just because you put all kinds of pressure on her to rush, she acts like an ass at all of the parties and is rude to PNMs? Would you still expect your chapter to keep her?

On another note, it's interesting how the member hasn't had contact with the GLO, may or may not even receive the magazine, for decades but suddenly seems to "know" how it operates...even though procedures may have changed since she/he was a collegiate.

I like the Gamma Phi Beta policy because it takes the responsiblity off of the chapter - she (the person writing the legacy form) knows that she will not be receiving a call if her legacy is not invited back, and it is international policy, not the "fault" of the chapter.

AlphaFrog,

Actually, I wouldn't care if my legacies even went through recruitment, so there's not likely to be any pressure put on the girl from me.

But honestly at 150+ chapters like where I went to school, I don't buy in much to the idea of the chapter deciding a legacy is authentically "not a good fit for a the chapter" during rush because it's going to be based on a couple of very superficial meetings. There are all types of folks in each organization, really. What not being a good fit would likely mean on my old campus (but not so much at my chapter) in most cases would mean would be A. not cute enough/plump B. not popular enough in high school. C unknown by girls presently in the chapter. Are those the standards, particularly A and B, that you would want used in releasing legacies because that's what folks are probably using in most cases? (We also might add "not from the right type of family" when right type refers mainly to wealth and prominent social position, but that's only for a couple of chapters.)

I suspect that at my old campus legacies don't get much deference because many of the chapters have a couple of new members classes going through rush in any one year. If you know you can't give bids to them all, they you have to evaluate they just like non-legacies. But I don't think the standards actually used are particularly deep and meaningful assessments. Great girls get cut every year probably most often because they don't have connections in the chapter already.

And in the interest of honesty, your hypothetical that someone I raised or was raised with me would "act like an ass" at all of the parties and be rude is just insulting, don't you think? Sure some legacy might act like that but in that case, don't you think the girl is going to drop the group at the earliest opportunity?

I think less harm in done to alumnae relations when chapters communicate with alums about the decisions that they've made. Cutting someone's daughter is going to do harm to the relationship with that person, and not just to "petty" folks like me.

Do you think that they just look into it before the girl goes through recruitment?

Certainly this would be a case where you don't have much to lose in terms of alumna support if you cut her.

I can totally see why it's easiest for the chapters as they do recruitment, especially at big recruitments. At the chapters with hundreds of legacies going through, as a practical matter, the phone calls could take hours. I wonder if Gamma Phi Beta realized that the phone calls don't provide much comfort to the alums anyway.

Do you think that they just look into it before the girl goes through recruitment?

Yup, you'd think they'd start at least when the pnm is a junior, lol.

This expression is new to me. What is a "spa kind of girl"?

I think the GPA scenario is extremely likely in this case. This thread was so poorly written that it was almost incomprehensible. Sorry to be mean, but I can't believe this poster even was in college.

I cannot disagree with this statement.

I'm glad someone came out and said that!

Although the poor writing could indicate a poor GPA, I am not entirely convinced that it was her GPA because she did get a pretty decent number of invites for round 2, more than a typical PNM with a low GPA would get. My thinking is that she was downright rude at her legacy chapter that she deemed not good enough for her, and we won't know if it is Alpha Phi or Pi Beta Phi because she still can't get her story straight.

A sock puppet perhaps?

Ok, so you don't care if your "legacy" rushes, but if she does, she better not be cut from your chapter?? THAT makes sense.:rolleyes:

Yes, Rush can be superficial, but it's still not an excuse that they should keep your "legacy" if she's less of a fit than another girl. And, if the chapter's standards of "fit" includes looks or activities, that's their prerogative.

Oh, and children are products of their enviroment, but that's not always a deciding factor. The best parents in the world that do everything right can end up raising a worthless excuse for a human being. So it's not really insulting your hypothetical parenting skills to imply that someone you raise could turn out the wrong way. Nature, in many cases, has been proven to be stronger than nurture.

Yes I can I still have it written down in my rush book. Thanks for being so rude.

Perhaps editing your posts would make the story clearer.

My point is that you care much more deeply about the person related to you than you do the chapter already, which is why if I had a legacy I would want her to do what she wanted to do. It'd be fun if she joined my group, but not at the expense of her doing what she wanted to do.

On the other hand, my connection to a chapter is by its very nature weaker. And in the present is somewhat based on what the current members do. Rejecting my relative isn't going to strengthen those bonds.

If a person regards a chapter of her GLO on an even level with her regard for members of her own family, I think there maybe something wrong in that family to begin with. I would think a normal person would think of the relative ahead of the chapter, and it would be helpful in terms of alum relations for the chapter to keep in mind.

I know it's not possible for a chapter to keep every legacy. Even if it were, there are legitimate reasons why legacies could/should be cut.

I'm pointing out that a cutting legacies may weaken the lifelong relationships that members have with chapters and maybe even organizations. And I was wondering what Gamma Phi Beta knew about making the phone calls that caused them to not make them.

(It's hard for me to relate to the idea that you think a PNM is going to spontaneously but deliberately act like a jerk during recruitment rather than conduct herself in the manner she's been raised. It doesn't really matter if it's nature or nurture, but the time she goes off to college, she's probably going to have some foundation in knowing how to behave, good or bad. If you think that her choices are acting like a jerk vs. joining a group she doesn't want to join, I don't really think I look at membership the way you do.)

I guess having 2 kids, I'm going to pull the "love each one differently" card.

I love my daughter...and I hope that she chooses to rush, and if that college has ASA, it would be great if she went ASA. But, if my sisters there decided she wouldn't be a fit for that chapter, and cut her, it wouldn't change how I love ASA. Daughter and ASA are seperate loves...and if they someday become the same love, then great. But I know, it's not the chapter's obligation to keep me a happy and involved alum, that's my responsiblity.

I think the responsibility is mutual. The chapter doesn't have to completely defer to you any more than they'd defer to a single active member, and even then, I'd say alumna opinions should count less. But the chapter isn't free to expect to do something that hurts you and also expect you to just suck it up and keep working for them.

ouch.

Irishpipes and Lyrelyre,

Would you say something similar in public in real life? Wouldn't it just seem unnecessarily hurtful and insulting?

Even if we did rank the quality of recruitment threads, it wouldn't seem to me that we would directly insult the intelligence of the writer as you all did here.

Sorry my writing is not up to your expectations. I graduated high school with a 3.8 gpa and was diagnosed with a learning disability when I was in elementry school. I also graduated college with a decent gpa and went on to grad school. Thanks so much.

Ok, you're just looking for things to complain about, since you feel the need to complain about the same post twice in a row.

Go ahead, be offended and quit AGD because they cut your fictional legacy. I'm done.

This is a good suggestion. Especially with retro-recruitment threads, choosing how you are going to tell the story, like Low C Sharp, DGDramadawg, and Irishpipes seemed to, is really important to the overall quality because you can shape the story so much with great detail and your connection to each chapter. You've got the benefit of hindsight in terms of knowing why things may have gone down the way they did.

I salute all you retro recruitment thread writers!
It was fun to read them all!

I never suggested ranking threads. The recruitment stories are fun and interesting, even when there are errors here and there. This one truly was nearly impossible to follow, largely because of the unbelievably poor spelling and grammar. Sure, everybody makes errors and typos, but my 3rd grade son could have written sentences more accurately than those. I am not usually one of the snarky girls, but I truly wonder if this girl is in college.

And yes, to answer your question, if I met this poster in real life, I would kindly suggest that she refrain from writing publicly until her skills are more refined. May I add that the writer insulted her own intelligence by writing so poorly. She cannot complain that she was unfairly criticized, when she was 100% responsible for the quality of the product that she generated. If she wants a more favorable response, she should present herself in a more favorable light. If she is an educated person, she should write like one.