Preach it, JessSigKap, bruinaphi, and FSUZeta. It's an important message. PNMs need accurate information.

Oh, and JessSigKap: "it got dumbed down when a bunch of girls were complaining they didn't understand" ??? That reminds me of the big flap several years ago when a doll model -- Barbie, maybe; maybe something else, I don't remember the brand -- was for sale. It had a "talking" feature and one of the phrases was, reportedly, "math is hard." Caused a mild uproar.

I am not sure what you are asking, but here's the deal.

A PNM must maximize her options throughout recruitment, including at preference, in order to be eligible to be a quota addition.

If a woman ISPs or fails to maximize she is not eligible to be placed as a quota addition but she is eligible to be snap bid or COB'd.

You really cannot put down chapters which you did not visit for preference on your MRABA for two reasons: (1) the MRABA provides that you can only rank chapters at which you attend events; and (2) most of the recruitment management software is set to prevent this from happening.

Know the system
 

From my experience, gamma chis don't always give you all the information. I really feel like the system at some schools are more structured to fill houses than they are to find the perfect fit for PNMs. Here's my advice:
1. Ask anything you want to know about the houses. If you want to know if a particular house has a religious affiliation or is on social probation, you have to ask point blank. When you beat around the bush, you may not get an objective response.
2. Don't feel bad about asking questions. It is your prerogative. If you're going to pay thousands of dollars to an organization, you deserve to know anything you want about it.
3. Don't feel obligated to rank a house high on your card just because they were nice to you. Or just because you have a friend in the house. You're doing this for yourself, and you have to consider all the factors that are important to you when you rank houses. You need to look out for your own interests. Besides, you can still be friends with these girls even if you're not in their sorority.
4. But at the same time, don't rank a house low on your card just because it isn't top tier or a face house.
5. Go in knowing that rush isn't always fair. You may have been the pinnacle of popularity in high school, and you still only get asked back to houses you don't want. Chances are, most of your competition was probably just as popular. And sometimes, you just don't understand why you didn't get asked back to a house and another girl did. Don't let it make you bitter, and don't take it personally.
6. If you end up getting a bid for a house that you don't want, take it anyway. You might end up liking it.
7. Try to look beyond the rush parties. Do you like the house's philanthropy? Are members of the house active on campus or in the community? What are the personal expectations that the house has for its members. Make sure you choose organizations you'd be proud to be a part of.

Not everyone will agree with everything I say. These are just my opinions.

Here's my random recruitment comment: PNM's, it is not the end of the world if you don't join a sorority. The sky will not fall and life as you know it will not end.

Some people may say that is not much solace because it is coming from a woman who did join a sorority, but I went through an entire school year my freshman year and was not a part of Greek Life. I was involved in several campus activities and made tons of friends. In fact, a lot of them were Greek and still others were not. I had fun at football games, fraternity parties, road trips, girls nights, nights out on the town and more.

College is an amazing time in your life. Greek Life is fun and wonderful and I encourage you to explore the possibility of joining. But if you don't join a sorority, you're still going to have an incredible 4 years so long as you stay open to new things, work hard in your classes and explore all of the opportunities available to you as a student!

I agree.

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but if you're trying to reference my earlier post about dirty rushing and saying that if a sorority is trying to get you to do things to get you as a quota addtion, instead of putting you on their first bid list, you should tell them to go jump...

I wouldn't have minded taking COB from ASA if I wasn't on their bid list, because at least they played fairly, and would have let me go somewhere else if I was on that other org's first bid list.

My point is (provided I fit with both orgs) I'd rather go to a GLO that had me 1st on their bidlist than one that snuck me in through QA or dirty rushing or where I was last on their bidlist.

I agree with this. When I was a Rho Gamma this spring, one of my friends from high school went through and she ranked two chapters and got her second choice. She was crushed; even her Rho Gamma, who was in the chapter that she wanted, thought for sure that she would get her chapter. I explained to her that there's nothing she can do at this point, especially because she was a sophomore. There was no mistake. There is no getting a bid from #1 next semester. There is no getting a bid as a junior next spring. Your only choice is to give this group a try and you can walk away at any time, so why walk away before bid day?

ETA: She ended up being very happy in her #2 choice and accepted the fact that there was more than one good fit. :)

I agree w/ this as well, but I think it's easier to say to someone who is a freshman or perhaps a sophomore who transferred in than someone who has already spent 3+ semesters on campus and perhaps has gotten her heart set on a group (which we know a PNM shouldn't do, but sometimes it's tough not to)

Additionally PNM's who go thru rush and get & accept their 2nd (or 3rd) choice should smile & shut up about it immediately. The new member class that came into my chapter my sophmore year had a group of girls (like 4 or 5) who all pref'd another house together & put it first, but ended up in our house. Their attitudes were bad in the beginning- they thought they were better than some of their NM class because they had pref'd this house- we had to break it down to them- they didn't GET that house, that house didn't WANT them enough to put them on the 1st bid list or they would be there... at one point I told them they weren't "almost in that 'other house'" and that they needed to get over themselves and that they weren't helping anyone including themselves w/ their haughty attitude- if anything they looked like sore losers.
They ended up being a good group of sisters, and one of them even went on to be president but I remember wanting to smack them for a while!

I guess I was very lucky, I think I would've been happy in any of the three houses where I preffed way back in the day. I had been on campus long enough to know everybody's reputation and a lot of girls in each chapter, and although they were all different, I think I could've found a place in any of them. Maybe this is one of the advantages of a big system--I see a much different story on a campus with only half a dozen or so chapters. Sometimes if you don't get invited back to a place where you thought you'd fit, there isn't an alternative that seems right.

Thanks BruinAPhi...you actually did answer my question about elibility to receive a bid as a quota addition with your earlier post I just didn't read it carefully enough. Please forgive!

So if you really only want to accept a bid from one house that invited you to Preference, I guess you can ISP and take your chances. But it's a really bad bet.

Rush counselors used to encourage PNMs to list any house on the Pref card from whom they were willing to accept a bid...even if they had not attended their Pref party. I have a sister who was invited to three houses at Pref, regretted AB, went to XYZ and QQQ's Pref parties, decided she wanted XYZ most, didn't want a bid from QQQ, but put down AB as a second choice on her pref card. She of course got a bid from AB, was heartbroken for about 5 minutes, then went to pledge day and spent the rest of her life happily as an AB!

and you too can live happily ever after if you choose to!!

What if there was a chapter you repeatedly tried to drop throughout recruitment that kept asking you back, all the way through pref, and that you would rather have your head cut off than join? Are you saying that she has to put them down just to cover her butt?

That kind of goes against the whole "mutual selection process" concept. It can essentially force a PNM to put down a group she doesn't want if she wants another group who will probably make quota. Then she ends up screwed with a group she doesn't want and the sorority ends up screwed with a PNM who didn't want them.

If this is what "quota additions" are, I'm glad my school never had them.

Exactly. This is why sometimes maximizing options isn't always the best choice.

I don't completely agree with this. In some smaller schools, you may still have a decent chance to join a sorority. When I was in school, a girl pledged Phi Mu (very good chapter on our campus) with a 1.9 GPA! She was a sophomore who had classes with a lot of other members. When I was a Rho Chi, my entire group were upper classmen with very low GPAs. Some were cut, but most received bids. Of course, we only had 4 groups on campus with 25-35 NM quotas. My advice is to know the system you're rushing. Big competitive schools are probably not worth it, but smaller schools may still be an option for girls with borderline grades. I do totally agree with KSUViolet when she says that you are in school to get an education, so if you can't make good grades without having all of the extracurricular activities that a sorority entails, you may want to think twice about joining!

No, a PNM should never rank a chapter at Pref if she has no desire to join that group.

Quota additions are a very good way of insuring that women who play by the rules and maximize their options throughout recruitment do not go unmatched on bid day.

I was such a dummy going through rush as a first semester freshman. When I went to a party at a house that kept inviting me back that I had no intention of pledging, and they asked me (politely of course) what houses I was interested in...or how I felt about their house...or something to that effect...I told them. The truth. Politely!

problem solved.

But the woman in my example DID play by the rules, and although she won't go "unmatched" she and the sorority will be a bad match.

Say she goes into pref with 2 groups: ABC and XYZ. The max pref parties you can go to is 3.

ABC she loves, they love her, but they always make quota and are at total and to top it off, there are a ton of ABC legacies going through recruitment. She knows they might make quota before they even get to her, so she wants to have the hope of maybe being a quota addition. No hard feelings...that's just the way it is.

XYZ she can't stand, has tried to drop them, but they keep inviting her back and in order to be considered for quota additions, she cannot decline their invites as she must "maximize her options."

She goes to pref, puts down ABC #1 and XYZ #2. ABC has exhausted their quota additions before they even get to her...so she's stuck with XYZ.

Or, she doesn't even want to entertain the thought of XYZ, so she suicides ABC. ABC makes quota from their first bid list, so they won't be COBing or snapping, and cannot add her as a quota addition so she suicided.

It sounds like a crappy deal to me any way around, and a way for the bigger sororities to get bigger.

Isn't that where the logic/principle behind the new RFM is supposed to step in? A good Panhellenic Rush Coordinator is going to look at ABC's returns before Pref invites are issued, and see the number of legacies they are carrying and look at how many spots ABC might potentially fill with legacies. Looking at ABC's historical stats she's going to have a very good idea of exactly how many women ABC should invite to pref. When it works right, a rushee who has little or no hope of actually receiving a bid from ABC is never invited to Pref in the first place.

But it is an imperfect system, and you are right...some parts of sorority rush just suck.

On an aside, do you really think that the biggest houses get bigger because of quota additions...or because they consistently make quota and retain their members?

Say a girl has two pref parties and is only interested in one.

Couldn't a girl "get sick" during the party that she is not interested in? Thus, she would only be attending an event for one house and according to the rules ("you can only rank a chapter you visited an event for") she could only rank that house.

Right? Or not right?

I'm thinking "out loud" here, trying to think of a way a girl could cheat the system.

It wasn't part of my training as a Rho Chi. Granted, I was a Rho Chi in 1994. :o But we were essentially told to discourage suiciding as much as possible - actually, we weren't even permitted to bring up the notion at all, the PNM had to specifically inquire about it.

And DeltaDeltaBaby had a very good point - I had no clue how Bid Matching really worked, even though I was a Rho Chi. It wasn't until I was on Panhellenic Exec board that I started to understand everything behind the process.

While what you describe used to be the case, it is not under the RFM. If she ranks both ABC & XYZ and ABC fills to Quota before they reach her on their bid list she will match to XYZ if she is high enough on their list. If she is not then she will be placed as a quota addition. Where she matches as a quota addition depends on three things: (1) who she ranked first; (2) the relative recruiting strength of ABC & XYZ and (3) where she is on ABC & XYZ's bid lists. The goal of the RFM is to level the playing field, so you will not see the "big chapters" taking all of the quota additions. Actually, the situations where we see extreme quota additions are usually campuses where a chapter that has traditionally struggled in formal recruitment really excels under the RFM and exactly the opposite happens.

33Girl,

I guess you're right, but the thing about your example is that the PNM really doesn't have a shot at the one she wants anyway. If she's sure, she should suicide because she won't get them as an addition. And if the other group usually goes through almost their whole bid list to match to quota, she'll probably match to them anyway in regular big matching, never even getting to QA.

For a girl who is interested in joining a group and is willing to give all the groups a try, then quota additions and guaranteed matching are great things but they don't guarantee a bid at your top choice or the big certainly would get bigger.

It does seem that quota additions could really help some girls who used to "mismatch." Let's say a girl prefs three middle groups all of whom she'd happily take a bid from. In the olden days, her ranking the groups differently than where she was on their bid lists really could have affected her outcome IF all groups matched to quota before going all the way through their lists. Now with quota additions, this girl would still get matched to a group that she wanted and that wanted her. (Right? It's the historic example that I'm not sure of. I'm fascinated by bid matching, but I can never be sure I understand it.)

At so many competitive rushes, PNM have to decide at some point to go with the groups that want them or to drop. There's not much they can do to get picked up by their top choices.

I absolutely agree that someone getting a bid with a sub-2.0 GPA would be the exception, not the rule, and no PNM should ever count on that happening.

That said, while I was active, my chapter took a new member via COB, and she had a GPA lower than 2.0. (She was a second semester freshman when she pledged, so she only had 1 semester's GPA under her belt. Also, she did not initiate until that second semester's grades were in and brought her cumulative up substantially. But, she did pledge w/a sub 2.0 GPA.) However, she had 2 very close friends from HS in the house who really fought for her. She actually ended up being a good member, went on to graduate school, and has a fairly prestigious job these days. (I'll decline to say specifically what she does, for her privacy's sake.) She was very, very much the exception and not the rule though.

Yeah, I am not sure I understand the difference. If ASA told you to do this, and then ranked you low intentionally, you would not accept a bid, but if you did it of your own accord, and they ranked you low because they didn't think you were a good fit, you would accept a bid?

Sorry for the double-post, but a couple of comments:

1) A PNM should NOT list a chapter that they would not accept a bid from under any circumstances. Usually, if a PNM absolutely hate hate hates a chapter, it is because they are the small/weak chapter on campus. If you list them on your bid card, you will match there before you will be a QA to your favorite group. The only way to be a QA is if all the chapters you pref make quota.

2) Getting "cross-cut" is a bit of a myth. That is not exactly how bid matching works. You should put your first choice chapter first, rather than trying to guess where you are on some chapter's bid list.

3) Please remember that campus rules trump the Green Book, so do not take anything as the gospel because you saw it here. Go ask your Greek Life office.

I think I get what she's saying.

In the second scenario you listed, it may not be that they didn't think she was a good fit...they just don't know her well enough yet. If they invite her to a COB event to get to know her a little better, they might fall in love with her and realize that they almost missed out during formal recruitment.

In the first scenario, the group already feels like they know her (one would assume if you're going to go to the trouble of dirty rushing a PNM like that, you feel like you know her well enough)...even though they already feel like they know and like her, they just don't like her enough to rank her high on their list.

In one scenario, they don't realize what they're missing out on. In the other scenario, they're well aware that they could be taking the risk of losing her by not placing her on the 1st bid list, and they go ahead and take that risk anyhow.

Yeah - kinda that, and the fact that in the dirty rush scenario, that GLO would be sabotaging the rest of the PNMs rush, so she wouldn't even get a CHANCE to place with other houses. If they like a PNM enough that they would want her to ruin the rest of her rush experience, and her possible future as a Greek if they don't follow through and either QA or COB her, then she should be insulted that she wouldn't be high enough to make it on their first bid list. To me, it's all about intention. If you rush fairly, don't get a bid due to your favorite group hitting quota, but then are picked up in COB because they still have spots to fill to hit total, great. It's not so much that you get in NUMBER ONE on the bid list, but that you get in because you truly belong there and gave all the other houses a chance as well.

But, I'll freely admit that I don't come from a university where Greek life is the end-all-to-be-all and PNMs would sacrafice their first born to get in.

Even if the weak group DOES make quota before getting to her name, the PNM would probably get matched as a QA there, not to her top choice because preference is given to the chapter with the smallest size, not necessarily the PNM's preference.

Not all PNMs "hate, hate, hate" the small/weak chapter. I ranked one of the strongest chapters on campus last, because I did NOT like the girls. In fact, my second round ranking card was:

1. Large Chapter
2. Small Chapter
3. Large Chapter
4. Small Chapter
5. Large Chapter
6. Large Chapter
7. Medium Chapter

And my pref carf was:

1. Small Chapter
2. Large Chapter

Although, I guess we've already established that I'm not the norm when it comes to recruitment.;):p

I believe that someone already said local campus rules trump the Green Book. This is an area where that is the case. The two large universities in the state where I went to school do this differently. One goes by chapter size and one goes by PNM preference.

So in other words, ABC should be down to the bare bones at pref (i.e just the amount of girls to fill quota, or maybe a few over) and our example rushee should have been released way before pref?

Can you take someone you released before pref as a quota addition or do they have to have attended your pref?

And yes, hating a chapter has nothing to do with it being small or weak a lot of the time. It can have to do with things like the chapter having a rep for hazing.

Yes. The usual rule of thumb is for the chapters to invite quota times the number of pref parties (3x quota).

That is probably up to each chapter's internal membership selection procedures.

I actually went to a small state school with low standards for admission. (I followed my older sister there because they have the best nursing school in the state. My sister is a nurse, not me.) Anyway, grades were important in my chapter...but, the other three groups on campus regularly pledged lower grade candidates. I don't think PNMs should have the impression that it is easy, but I think telling people that they will not have a chance no matter where they rush is false. If you go to a school where the GPA of a chapter has to stand up to the non-greek average which is higher due to high admission standards, low GPAs are more of a big deal. Even with chapters accepting these low GPA girls, the all-sorority average was still significantly higher than the all-women average at my university. And, just because you haven't heard of something happening doesn't mean it doesn't! Your own personal experience may be limited because of the type of campus you were on. I know this is a big deal in many places, but exceptions are often made at campuses like mine.

And...as for this girl with the 1.9 GPA, I remember her specifically because she was hated by one of my pledge sisters. They apparently dated the same guy! Hard to forget someone you talked extensively about. Also, I know for sure what the grades were in my rho chi group. I did advise them during rush that they should not be surprised if they were cut (I knew my own chapter's rules) but imagine my surprise (and relief!) when most of them got bids!

The rule of thumb under the old quota total system was for chapters to have quota times the number of pref parties present for pref. Under the RFM it is much more complicated than that. Under the RFM specialists look at where the chapter has closed on their bid list over three years and their historical number of first choices at preference and then provide a buffer.

With respect to quota additions, the women do have to have attended preference at the chapter to be a quota addition to that chapter.

I agree completely that you should put down the groups in the order you are interested.

But I was wondering if getting cross cut was always a myth? I guess I'm kind of a rush/recruitment history student.

I can see how with computer programs, it's unlikely to occur today because the lists can all be run simultaneously. But in the old days of reps from all groups sitting around a table, didn't the order matter more?

(I have this impression that let's say you were on the third list of the group you put first, that your second and third choices, who might have had you on their first lists, were filling up while you were waiting to see how far down your first choice group was going to go. Was your spot on the other groups' lists secure until it was all over?

re: bid matching ...

if the procedure in the "green book" was followed correctly, once you moved on to a group's first bid list ... whether you got there by being there to begin with or moved there from the second bid list ... your place was supposed to be secure. The group could not make quota without you getting a bid.

I didn't think that is true. If a PNM lower on the list ranks the chapter higher than you do, doesn't she get the spot? It is hard without laying out lots of numerical examples, though, so I will try:

Quota is 20. Suzie is #21 on ABC's list, and she ranks them second, behind DEF, where she is #25. Jackie is #22 on ABC's list, and she ranks them first.

First thing that happens is #1 choices get matched to first bid lists. ABC matches 19 girls, as does DEF. Both chapters go to #21 on their bid list, but Suzie does not match to ABC because her first choice is still DEF. DEF's #21 ranks them low, so there are still two spots open.

Now, each chapter goes to #22 on their bid list. ABC picks up Jackie, because she ranked them as #1, and now has a full pledge class.

So, even though Jackie was ranked lower than Suzie, she gets the bid to ABC because it was her first choice.

If DEF had matched their first 20, then ABC would have become Suzie's "new" #1 choice, and she would have gotten the open spot in ABC.

And now that I typed that all out, it doesn't seem quite right, but I can't figure out where the example went wrong.

Where you're going wrong is both chapters don't move to their #22 together. Provided that ABC's 20th name has gotten a bid to XYZ the last stop is open and Suzie as #21 moves onto ABC's first bid list. If DEF's 20th got a bid to PRQ then their #21 (Betty Boop) moves onto their bid list but has DEF listed as her #3. So the matching is attempted again. Suzie still has DEF as #1 and doesn't match and Jackie still isn't on DEF's bid list and Betty still doesn't match either ABC or DEF. This has become grid lock, nobody is going to match, and there's a procedure for breaking this that would end up giving a bid to ABC to Suzie. Depending on what's happening with Betty's first choice she may or may not get the bid to DEF. If she does get a the bid to her first then Jackie moves onto DEF's bid list and gets a bid. If not, Betty may end up getting it, if her first and second choices fill to quota.

Does that make sense? The thing to remember is that once a name has moved onto a chapter's first bid list, it stays there until it is matched or removed when you match elsewhere. PNM names and 1st choices continue to be read until the first choice fills to quota or in the case you have to break grid lock.

Right, it does. This is not as fresh in my mind as it used to be. You are always matching top choices to top choices, even if they only became top choices by moving up from second choices when first choices are no longer available. That is why getting "cross-cut" is just a myth.

I think where I went wrong was with breaking the grid-lock. In the situation you described, I don't think I understand why Suzie gets the bid to ABC if it is her second choice and Jackie's first. I thought PNM preference trumped chapter preference.