lmao my bad!

get the generic corn flakes (which sometimes taste better), forget the juice and get 10 packs of red (not cherry, RED!) kool-aid and 2 5-pound bags of sugar lol...hell we may even have enough for a can or two of tuna!

point is, you are gonna be one hungry, irritable person at the end of the day.

and another point, i think that is also why some of these kids get labeled as ADHD when their a**es are HUNGRY! you'd be staring into space and acting out too!

I am amazed how many people think they can live on $21.00 a week for food.

I am single and pinch pennies when buying food.

Try owning a smal business and not making much out of it.

If you own a business, you cannot get on food stamps/now vision cards and amazing how many people ahve them and try to buy not approved food items!

Or "Mothers Day" when welfare checks come out and they drive up to one of the infamous liquor stores in their Cadillacs to buy booze and cash them!

Kevin, YOU are a disgrace to man kind for coming from a Mid USA State going to a State School and working to get through and graduating and then going to Law School! How can you be so crass?;)

Oh, Vision cards will not work in ATMs as I have had some try and get made at me!:mad:

And some of those people that own thier businesses have a helluva time paying for insurance....if they have insurance ;)

oh dear lord. i won't even get started on the terms you choose to use.

however, tom, i come from a mid usa state and went to a state school, in addition to working the midnight shift all four years while double majoring. oh yah. i've since gone on to get a masters and start work on my phd. i have funded everything on my own through loans and work. but that is NOTHING SPECIAL. i'm still a lucky bastard for the opportunities i've been afforded in my life. not everybody is that lucky. but situation and circumstance don't excuse you from caring or being firmly grounded in reality.

i'm sincere when i say that pinching pennies while food shopping sucks and i fully empathize with you. but then you could always take kevin's earlier advice and get a different job... but i don't think that fixes a SOCIETAL issue.

- m

on a side note, i just wanna throw it out there that i usually don't post a whole lot on GC in general, let alone a single thread. but i'm REALLY passionate about the topics of eating patterns and obesity and particularly how environment and situation effect them. i'm not trying to rant or pick on anybody. really. its just hard to spend my time studying and researching these phenomenon and have uninformed people saying *what i personally perceive to be* cruel and ignorant things.

i apologize if anybody is offended but that's just how it is.

- m

@ squirrely...

there is an article on CNN's blogspot about how childhood obesity is being blamed on WOMEN, and the fact that we are working now and not staying home with the kids...very interesting...

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/blogs/pagi...ity-among.html

Taking drugs is a choice -- an illegal, unhealthy one at that. If they choose drugs over food, so be it. I could care less when they kick off.

Each "abused adult"? You mean the ones who can go to the numerous battered womens' shelters, possibly obtain victims protection orders (or whatever the local equivalent thereof is), etc. It's their choice to continue to be abused. If they want out of that position badly enough, there is an out, although, admittedly, they may not agree. It's still a choice.

Besides, in that case, I don't think an extra ten bucks in food stamps is going to be the answer to their problem.

They qualify for social security and disability and a myriad of other benefits. Therefore, no job needed. My arguments only really reach able bodied/able minded "working people" (as the Democrats would call them).

I actually have. A guy hit me up for cash a few months back, gave me his Katrina spiel. I directed him to the standby manual labor company a few blocks from here.

Again, Democrats argue that there are immigrants here to do jobs "Americans won't do." If they won't work, why should I owe them a living?

I think the answer is obvious. Of course there are other expenses.. but thank God there are other government programs! If 97% of poor households can own color TV's, I guess they aren't starving.

Right. They should have jobs and therefore, much more money to spend.

And you think we owe people luxury foods just because they exist? Screw that.

For kids, there are sports.. those are free if played in most schools.

Otherwise, get a job.

True. Parents shouldn't have kids they can't afford to feed. That is why we have abortions and adoptions and contraceptives.

Yeah, I guess expecting other people to value themselves enough to be responsible for feeding themselves is expecting a little much...

you know...u should stop...that plumber's crack is turning into a full moon.

And when you moon like that you really start to show how ignorant you are of other people's misfortune.

Amen, Kevin. I have a pre-schooler who can already chant the family's mantra "You are responsible for your own actions". Yes, sometimes people are handed a crap deal, but you can't take it lying down. Get up, get moving and get over it. Often times, people make their own 'bad luck' which is just a symptom of 'bad choices'. I know it isn't always the case, so no flames.

This thread is a hell of a lot like this one: http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...light=homeless

No one is starving in America.

21 dollars a week means that they choose to not to supplement their government aid.

A person soliciting donations on a street corner IMO would earn a minimum of a dollar an hour. If they solicit for eight hours a day they would earn an extra eight dollars per day.

So let’s see here. $21.00 + $56.00 = $77.00 for food per week.

Misfortune and bad luck as that preivous poster said are just methods to displace ones own poor choices on some mystical force.

Not being a bleeding heart liberal does not make me an ass. It means I have a difference of opinion. Please tolerate my differences.

Can't we just all get along? :(

I DO think there are children who are starving in America, b/c of the bad choices their parents/caregivers have made. Children should be assisted by being removed from the homes of negligent parents who abuse drugs, alcohol and their own children. My sister and her husband ,today in fact, officially adopted TWO children, siblings , 9 and 4 who were in a home just like that. :) Big day for our whole family!

However, these parents do not deserve one thin dime of the money my family works hard to earn. The parents of THESE children are both in jail for running a meth lab. :(

I agree with both of you and especially kevin.

What is wrong with some of you people? Daemonseid.........why in God's name should I have sympathy for some crack head junkie living off of the street? I would gladly "look them in the eye and tell them to get a job". Sure I would, with pleasure. People like that disgust me.

As far as Katrina victims.........I have told them to get a damn job.....many times. Houston and Austin had a major influx of them......totally ridiculous..........as if Austin needed more homeless people.

....at what point did we stop holding people accountable for their actions? Jesus Christ.......there is absolutely no reason for me or my family to spend our time and hard earned money trying to be a savior to people that are so completely worthless that they don't even have the gumption to go look for work.

I'm not jumping into the food stamps "good" vs. food stamps "bad" argument, but I will say this...most people in this country overpay for groceries and, if they had the proper tools/education about how the grocery stores run their specials, they could spend a lot less.

I spend $250-300 a month at the grocery store for 4 people + a 65 pound dog for everything. That includes cleaning supplies, paper products, diapers/Pull Ups, dog food, dog treats, feminine products, shampoo, soap, razor blades/shaving cream...everything I buy. I could probably spend less, but I insist on having fresh produce in the house at all times and I shop at a specialty meat market for most of our meat products.

(I'm not kidding when I say that I indulge in fresh produce - in my house, right at this immediate moment...when I haven't even done my normal shopping yet this week...I have the following fresh fruits and veggies: broccoli, carrots, cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, celery, zuchini, strawberries, pineapple, grapes, oranges, apples, and bananas.)

You have to learn to beat the grocery stores at their own game.

LOL. I am the queen of cheap. We have a store called Aldi here and they have very nice produce for MUCH less than the bigger chains. I pay 2.99 for a three pack of red, yellow and green bell peppers when just ONE would be more than that at the other groceries. Broccoli crowns are .99! My husband makes fun of me, but when we can pay for our beach house in full b/c of my frugality, we will see who is laughing! I don't buy processed foods full of crap, only 'real' food and my kids eat and drink food that is actually good for them. AND I do it on a self-imposed TIGHT budget. I would rather spend some time to save money and be able to have the things that matter more to my family!

Again, GOOD CHOICES!

Kevin--

Wait, the Census Bureau does not have any medical authority and is not National Institutes of Health or Centers of Disease Control.

Starvation as defined is emaciation, dehydration, dysentery and entended bowel.

Essentially, one can starve by consuming mass quantities of fast food because it is not healthy.

Yes, at a basic level, children can learn some functional literacy, but critical thinking skills without nutrition and physical activity to lift oneself beyond poverty or working poverty, to sustainability is not happening in the US but for only a select few.

Criminality suggests that there is US starvation. Not a causation to effect, but definitely a symptom.

Illiteracy in one's home conversations, and this occurs in recent immigrants, moreover, outreach to those in authority does not occur. As such, working poor immigrants doing the jobs that Americans will not do, does not constitute they are healthy.

And after the all day meeting I have just attended: Health disparities causes educational achievement gap--simply means if children cannot learn if they are sick, and if they are sick, they will not learn...

Given the US inability to care about the poor similar to that observed in European nations, then we, the US, will go back into a 2nd class citizenship ideology.

Well, if that is dandy for you, but I don't think plenty of our elders want to go back to those days...

mac...it's people with attitudes like yours that disgust me.

that crackhead CAN EASILY be you...whether you like it or not...u have no idea what lead that person to be where they are...


Who are you to judge without first taking that long look in a mirror?

Katrina victims...well hmmm...suddenly displaced?

Kinda hard getting a job when your address IS A FLOODED OUT HOLE IN THE GROUND hmmm?

Hell..the Superdome that was for a month a 3rd world country has been fixed up in less than a years time and the lower wards in New Orleans are STILL after 2 years ghost towns...you want those homeless people out of your area in Texas....here is challenge for you...whatever purpose you serve in your area...get up and take a trip over there with those homeless and help rebuild their communities.

Too much for you?


Oh yeah ...too much like right...


When did we stop holding people acountable....?

Go back to 1939 when the welfare system in this country officially kicked off...since that is what we are discussing in this thread before we digressed to homelessness.

But you know what...we are gonna call it a day on this thread....we have offically agreed to disagree, but just in case you happen to wind up in a living condition much less than what you are used to and forced to get food stamps but you don't wanna be a burden on our government?

...do yourself a favor.

GO GET A JOB !! ;)

i am completely okay with the idea that not everybody thinks like me. i'd much rather have the debate than to completely ignore the issues. i sincerely think its great that there is participation in this thread. from ALL sides of the issue.

- m

Just to clarify - when I made my comment above about people not knowing how to maximize their grocery shopping, I think it goes across all income levels. I'm not trying to say that "people on food stamps just need to learn how to shop better" by any means. Most people could learn to shop better...I used to spend $700 a month to get essentially the same stuff I now get for $300. We weren't in dire need of getting our grocery spending down, but honestly...why give that extra $400 to the grocery store when it could stay in our pockets instead? :)

(An added perk is that by learning how to manage my grocery spending, I'm able to pick up extra on some of the great deals and donate it. There are many organizations always in need of personal hygiene products, etc. By maximizing the money I spend, I'm also able to maximize the volume of stuff I can donate. :cool: )

I definitely understand that not everyone is able to just "get another job." (Yes, I think there are people who abuse the system and that irks me. But I don't think its the majority of people.) For those of you who think otherwise, I'd highly recommend reading the book "Nickled and Dimed" if you haven't already. Even if you don't completely agree with the author's premise, it will get you thinking about issues in a whole new light.

I'm not mac.. but no, that crackhead couldn't be me. Crack is whack. I've never touched an illegal drug in my life. Never will. Chances of me ending up a crackhead = 0%.

Again, not Mac, but if I look in the mirror and see someone who is working his ass off to be successful, I guess that gives me the right to judge those who refuse to put forth the same sort of effort.

Not really. Construction crews are hiring all the time. They're so desperate taht they'll hire illegal immigrants to do work at the risk of criminal penalty.

Of course, most Katrina "victims" were pretty screwed up before the storm hit due to their own stupid choices prior to the storm.

So what you're saying is that they're too lazy to do for themselves, so we ought to get off our collective asses and provide for them? No.. sorry.. busy providing for myself. Thanks.

Your point?

Many of use, due to the fact that we've saved a lot of money, were able to pursue a decent education, etc. aren't going to end up in that sort of situation. If you make good choices in life, that sort of situation simply does not happen.

You need to start a "Susan's spend less at the grocery store tip of the week" thread.;)

Pull your pants up man......your entire ass is now showing....thanks for enlightening us on your 'fascinating' opinions on how everyone, as far as you have 'judged', everyone....will be able to avoid getting food stamps.

Elitist selfish and classist statements if I ever heard any.

I can see both sides of the issue; as someone who grew up in a household where money was tight, and who worked full-time to pay for undergrad (and is doing so through law school), part of me just wants to say "get a job, pick yourself up and make yourself into something." My parents weren't able to help, so even with a bunch of academic scholarships paying for most of my undergrad, I had to do 40+ hour workweeks in undergrad (and around 40 now) to pay my way through.

Then there's the part of me that realizes I grew up in a morally-supportive household. There's the part of me that has volunteered and seen people who didn't even have that level of support, kids who are now in the poverty cycle and who have their own kids.

I tend to go more towards the side Kevin is arguing in all of this, only because I don't know of an easy answer. Would people be ok if taxes skyrocketed for more programs, like the maternity leave program in Australia? Would people be ok if other programs were cut in favor of increased funding for the homeless? Do people want all their paychecks to go to taxes? Do you put your energies on the older people who are now homeless, or do you focus more on the children and teens who have an opportunity to turn around their lives?

I don't know, I just don't see it as an easy issue. I agree with Monet that education is a huge (probably the biggest) part in this whole thing. I also agree with squirrely girl that these types of conversations are/can be solid and productive. I just don't think some people should be getting so defensive about other's differences in opinions.

^ not a salient point in your entire post.

Congratulations on your accomplishment. If you can't address my reasoning/values, attack me.

Are you saying that if welfare recipients had jobs or their own businesses that many would not need federal benefits? No.. you could not possibly be saying that because if many of these folks had jobs, they would not qualify.

Oh.. but I'm a bad person. Got it. Nice work with that, btw.

I thought you were done with this subject?

ITA. If we all posted the same philosophies on every subject this would get boring in a hurry.

We ought not spend our hard earned money on folks who did not earn money in their lifetimes. Those people are wastes of oxygen in my opinion. I'll bet if we quit giving them $21/week in food stamps, they'd get jobs... or they'd die.

With all the suffering in the world, someone kicking off because they were too lazy to do the sort of work Americans won't do doesn't bother me so much.

I agree. This is one reason I'm a HUGE supporter of NCLB. Our schools are basically our first lines of defense against poverty. I'd like to see the KIP (Knowledge Is Power) program used in more places. We have one here in probably the poorest part of town in OKC. The school is 96% minority. Those kids go to that school from 7:30AM to 5PM. They have at least 3 hours of homework every night. Despite the fact that they're basically all poor, 85% of these kids go to college.

I have no problems investing my money in education. I do have a problem investing my money with people who merely want my money so that they may continue to not miss their daytime TV.

:eek::eek::eek::eek: Wow. Just wow.

Kevin, there have been a few points that I haven't completely disagreed with you on, but this is just shocking to me.

Most senior citizens did work hard in their lifetimes. In fact, many of them worked harder than any of us ever will. The world has changed greatly, in ways that people may never have been able to anticipate back then.

Yes, we in modern times know not to trust/rely on a company sponsored pension and social security...because we've seen so many seniors get the rug pulled right out from under them. But 50 years ago, that was not the common mindset. People back then assumed that if they provided a lifetime of loyalty and hard work to an employer, then they would be taken care of in retirement. Unfortunately, now they've seen benefits and pensions get slashed at the same time cost of living has skyrocketed.

I agree that if a person has been lazy their whole life and never contributed to society, then maybe we shouldn't have to worry about holding him/her up now. But I don't think those people are anywhere close to the majority of senior citizens on food stamps. That generation knew how to work...hard. And we've all benefited from the fruits of their labor. The idea that you think these people should just hurry up and die absolutely horrifies me.

With a slightly different situation to the original discussion, I would simply point out that some people (like our middle child -- a daughter now 27 years old) do make some very bad decisions, some (as they grow up) realize that and honestly try to realign their lives.

It isn't easy. Bad habits (drugs in her case) died hard, and trying to right problems like her credit is a long and difficult process. Bouncing back from a bad marriage, especially when a child is involved is painful -- especially when the father lends little or no support.

Do we punish those people for the rest of their lives for mistakes made when they were young and stupid?

I should say that our daughter has never taken a cent of entitlement money (we've had to help her -- a lot) but, seeing the situation, I would not have disapproved if she had.

She has been "sober" now for six or seven years, but is still struggling financially -- even though she has always had a job and works hard in her profession, although that was not always the case.

So, again, do we throw these people and their children away because of mistakes in the past?

I agree that many people (myself included) made bad choices in their youths. HOWEVER, I had to grow up, correct my mistakes (in my case, post-college credit card debt) and work double-time to make things right. My parents refused, and rightfully so, to help me out of the mess I made of my finances. I did not ask for, nor did I receive assistance in paying off my debt. I worked 2, sometimes 3 jobs, lived frugally and managed to pay it off in 3 years.

It wasn't easy and sometimes I was angry with my parents for not helping me, or jealous of my friends who didn't have to spend 1/2 their salaries fixing stupid mistakes. :mad: But I learned a lesson.....THEY WERE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING MY LIFE. That's my job. Period.

No, you shouldn't pay for youthful mistakes your whole life. You should make it right and get in gear. I am sorry for your daughter's woes, but only she can put her life back together and move on. I thank my parents for teaching me that lesson the hard way. :)

Civilized society should provide the necessities for those who cannot provide for themselves. As for those who simply don't want to provide for themselves, I think society owes them nothing.

Now, the elderly, in most cases cannot work. Therefore, I have no problem with providing help. My argument really doesn't reach them.

That is unfortuante. As I said though, I'm happy to have a little bit of my income redistributed to those who for whatever reason have no ability to provide for themselves -- especially when their situation is no fault of their own.

I think you're mistaken as to my meaning. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Hope this helps.

That makes a little more sense. (Not that I completely agree with all the points you've been trying to make in this thread, but you've at least clarified the post I had referenced.)

Well, the first tip I will offer is that grocery stores tend to run their sales in cycles...approximately 12 week cycles, give or take.

The critical mistake that many people make is replacing something as they run out of it, and quite often getting stuck paying full price because they run out when there's no sale on that particular item. With proper planning, you can arrange your grocery shopping so that you never pay full price for an item.

(Except, of course milk and fresh produce which need to be replenished each week. But if you're saving money on all the items which you can stock up on, it doesn't hurt the pocketbook quite as much to splurge on those fresh items.)

There is actually a website that tracks grocery store sales and puts out a weekly list for each store. Highlighted on the list are items which are at their rock bottom price, so you know which sale items that week are worth stocking up on. It is a subscription based service which costs $5 a month to get your local store's list. Now, a person could certainly track this information on their own, but it would take a lot of time and effort to put that information together. I subscribe to the list because the $5 a month is worth it to me in exchange for not having to spend hours each week reviewing sale ads and tracking the information myself.

It does take me about an extra hour per week to prepare for my shopping trip, but given that I'm saving $400 a month over what I was spending before for essentially the same stuff that extra hour is worth it!

I'll give the link, but I want to make 2 things clear first:

1) I don't get anything for promoting this site. (Yes, if you had my personal e-mail address to enter w/me being your "referral source," I'd get a month free. But, since none of you have my personal e-mail address I get zilch for recommending it.)

2) There is a message board associated with the site that has some very overzealous ladies on it (not all of them are that way, but many are). Some of them do go a little overboard with their stockpiling, etc. I don't tend to frequent that board, but occasionally you can look at it and get some interesting money saving tips. However, I can assure you that you can still save money with the grocery lists without being fanatical about it. :)

Here's the site - you can get a 4 week trial for $1. http://www.thegrocerygame.com/ I was a little skeptical at first, but figured "what have I got to lose for $1?" As I said, you could piece together this information by faithfully tracking sale ads yourself without the assistance of this site...I chose not to do that, b/c I have neither the time nor the patience. I'd rather let someone else do the dirty work for me. :o ;)


ETA: Somewhat related to the topic at hand...if you browse the message board, you can see the stories of some single mothers on food stamps who have used that particular system to make a huge difference in their lives. Because, of course, while food stamps help you cover some of your food expenses, they don't cover a lot of the other stuff...cleaning supplies, personal hygeine stuff, etc.

1.)That crackhead can "easily be me"? No, I really don't think so. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you have to first start using crack to become a crackhead. I don't see that happening too soon.

2.)Who am I to judge? Sport, I have looked in the mirror. I see someone who has busted their ass in school......worked when I haven't had too, and made connections that will hopefully secure my well being later on down the road.

3.)Hurricane Katrina struck two years ago this August 23rd. I think in two years you can find a job doing something. Furthermore, can they not rebuild their own homes? Did I miss something here? Why are you trying to make us feel like we OWE it to them to drop everything we are doing and help them fix their own lives. Again, they should take some damn initiative and stop feeling sorry for themselves. Yeah, Katrina was horrible....but its over. Do you know how easily these people could get hired doing construction, road work, oil field roughnecks? Ridiculously fast.

4.) I have a job. Thanks. And if I was ever dealt a bad hand and forced to live a life for a while that I was unaccustomed to........I would damn sure not settle for being a leech on a street corner with a change jar. In all honesty, I don't see anything like that happening to me though, ever. I have made good choices, at a young age, with my money which will benefit me down the road. IRA's, mutual funds, trusts...........those are all there so that those "down on your luck" situations won't happen.

Some people do not want to work! They just get better Govt. Dole by not working.

It is not that there isn't work. It may not pay what in their mind they are worth!

As an elderly customer said yesterday, I rmember making .30 cents an hour and it took a days work to fill my car. Today one can make 30.00 and hour, and it still takes a days work to fill your car up.

I love well, why don't you change jobs. I own the business at at my age and health, I cannot go anywhere else, very simple!:rolleyes:

I have many stores looking for people to work and cannot find anyone. So, what is wrong with that picture?

As Kevin said, dopers ahve to pass drug tests or they are not hired. I get people everyday looking for Pee Cleaning drugs and I refuse to sell them!

If they do that to get a job, what will they do if they get a job, steal? If they steal, then the price that we have to pay goes up! Well, there goes the $21.00 charges!

I always kind of look of looked at civil servants as welfare recipients also . . but thats just me.

When you don't have the means to get an education, you have to do your best. Many people out there have to drop out of high school to work and provide for their families and they often don't have the time to get a GED or finish high school.

I was just talking with a coworker yesterday about poverty. She started out on welfare and was raising three children on her own. She didn't have enough money or time to get educated and had to make do with a low paying job and little funding from the government. She and those like her who have little education often make poor life decisions because they don't know what is available to them. It becomes oppressive and breeds hopelessness. So many people in poverty are either depressed or angry. The angry ones sometimes resort to criminal activity to take what they need. The depressed ones fall further and further away from any chance of a better life as they settle into what they believe is all the only life they can achieve.

The coworker I was talking with is one of the few from the circle of people she grew up with who now has a decent job and good benefits for her family. She told me that she came to a realization that everything is a choice and she was making bad ones. How did she know this? Because she enrolled in the Welfare-to-Work program when it was still going strong. Through that program she began to realize how she could mold herself into the person she wanted to be, despite the hand that life had dealt her.

Today, there is a federal program that attempts to create possibilities for people who are traditionally in need of government assistance. It's called the Work Opportunity Tax Credit and it provides significant tax savings for employers who hire targeted job seekers from the following populations:

Qualified TANF Recepients
Qualified Food Stamp Recipients
Qualified Empowerment Zone Residents
Qualified High Risk and Summer Youth
Qualified Veterans
Qualified Ex-Felons
Qualified SSI Recipients

[see: http://www.uses.doleta.gov/wotcdata.cfm - The site needs to be updated however]

But, programs like this are successful only if people know about them. Many large companies have entire departments responsible for maximizing tax incentives. But, smaller companies often don't know.

If we're going to blame people on government assistance, we need to make sure we've done our part to educate them on their options as well as tend to their emotional needs.

ITA that there should be programs set up especially for women whose husbands leave them. However, I think if you chose to have your children out of wedlock, then you've made your bed, both literally and figuratively, if your man leaves you to do it on your own.

Women need to make wise choices and understand that they may one day HAVE to do it alone. Make sure you are old enough and secure enough to have a child before getting pregnant. That's what condoms are for, or better yet, abstinence before marriage. :rolleyes: (Not that I did that, so I am not preaching-it's just an option)

My husband and I waited 6 years before starting our family b/c we knew it would be expensive, and we wanted to work hard and save so that we would be in a good financial place when our kids came along.

As for not being able to afford an education. That is crap. :rolleyes:Public schools are free. And anyone who wants to go to University can these days, with grants and loans and scholarships. Work hard, make good grades and there is NO excuse for not getting an education. My parents paid for virtually NONE of my education although they certainly could have. I got scholarships and grants for most of my tuition. I worked an on-campus job for spending money. My on-campus housing was paid for with my scholarships.

I think there should be programs in place for woman who are abandoned with children. But they should be limited to job training, temporary housing and food. After 6 months, they should have sufficient skills to get a job. There are plenty of jobs out there with minimal training requirements.

When I was struggling to pay of my debt as a single girl, I worked some God-awful jobs. And they weren't what I wanted to do with my life and I wasn't proud to tell people I worked at a skeezy restaurant that serves wings (you know the one), and also delivered flowers in the afternoons! This is in addition to my 'real'job.

I know it is harder with kids, I worry all of the time what if something happened to my husband? What kind of job would I find after being at home for so long? Who would be there for my kids? It isn't that i don't have empathy for people in difficult circumstance, it's just that I am a realist and know that most people create their own misfortune.

Again, even my preschooler knows that "You are responsible for your own actions". ;)

JWithers, preach it.

Babies don't make themselves.