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-   -   GC's Grammar Class 101 (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=87259)

ladygreek 05-18-2007 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little32 (Post 1449800)
You might use a dash instead, to set off information inside of the parentheses. You're right, too many sets of parentheses looks cluttered. Also, sometimes with that parenthetical information, which is often meant to clarify or further specify about non-parenthetical information, you might not need to say as much as you think (you might feel like you do, but it may be that what you are writing goes without saying), or it really might work better as a footnote. If it is really important, then you wouldn't want to put it in parentheses anyway.
Excellent response.

CrimsonTide4 01-14-2008 10:19 AM
The apostrophe as it relates to NPHC Founders

All NPHC organizations have more than one founder. Correct?

Founder is singular.
Founder's is singular possessive

Ex: That founder's elephant collection is on display at National Headquarters.

Founders is plural. (more than one)
Founders' is plural possessive. (belonging to more than one)

Ex: The founders' degrees are on display at National Headquarters.

Founders Day, in the case of Delta Sigma Theta, does not need an apostrophe. At all. I cannot speak for the other 8 organizations on the apostrophe's presence, but I do know that it shouldn't ever be Founder's because there is more than one founder.

So next January I want to see more Happy Founders Day and zero Happy Founder's Day.

Por favor.

Still BLUTANG 01-14-2008 10:43 AM
This is a great thread. I give my students Strunk & White every time they come into the library and scream about needing help on a paper, but the writing lab is closed. Now I can brush up on my own skills!

EXTRA4SHORT 01-15-2008 12:52 PM
what about the/thee? Sometimes in church, the hymnal says "the", but people pronounce it "thee".

Also, I'm VERY annoyed by the word peoples....I know it's in the bible, but dang it sounds WRONG every time I hear it.:mad:

nikki1920 01-15-2008 12:58 PM
thee is old english, I believe (thee/thou/thus, etc.)
pronouncing "the" as "thee" i think is just an idosyncracy, it doesn't really change the meaning of whatever noun it is, just makes it sound more important.


CT4: I disagree. I think it should be Founders' Day because the day belongs to the founders. (plural possessive), IMO. I've seen it all kinds of ways though, so I refer back to my grammar school English lessons re: the plural possessive.

*the above is in regards to NPHC orgs in general and not specific to ZPB or DST, specifically.*

DSTCHAOS 01-15-2008 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide4 (Post 1580433)

Founders Day, in the case of Delta Sigma Theta, does not need an apostrophe

It takes everything in me not to correct every time the apostrophe is used.

DSTCHAOS 01-15-2008 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki1920 (Post 1581374)
CT4: I disagree. I think it should be Founders' Day because the day belongs to the founders. (plural possessive), IMO. I've seen it all kinds of ways though, so I refer back to my grammar school English lessons re: the plural possessive.

*the above is in regards to NPHC orgs in general and not specific to ZPB or DST, specifically.*
Regardless of opinion, there is no apostrophe in Founders Day as it pertains to Delta Sigma Theta. The memo was sent out years ago and it still stands.

You don't have to adhere to that but Sorors should. Period.

CrimsonTide4 01-15-2008 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTRA4SHORT (Post 1581370)
what about the/thee? Sometimes in church, the hymnal says "the", but people pronounce it "thee".

Also, I'm VERY annoyed by the word peoples....I know it's in the bible, but dang it sounds WRONG every time I hear it.:mad:
I have no idea what you are talking about in terms of the vs. thee. Thee is old English for you so there really shouldn't be misuse of thee in place of the. What you're probably hearing are church people trying to sound "good" and say THE wrong, lol.


Thou, Thee, Thine and Thy
Wikipedia's take

P.S. Stop trying to change the Bible, lol.

CrimsonTide4 01-15-2008 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki1920 (Post 1581374)
CT4: I disagree. I think it should be Founders' Day because the day belongs to the founders. (plural possessive), IMO. I've seen it all kinds of ways though, so I refer back to my grammar school English lessons re: the plural possessive.

*the above is in regards to NPHC orgs in general and not specific to ZPB or DST, specifically.*
Maybe for Zeta but not for Delta which is why I said:

Founders Day, in the case of Delta Sigma Theta, does not need an apostrophe

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1581376)
It takes everything in me not to correct every time the apostrophe is used.
Me too. I literally cringe to see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1581377)
Regardless of opinion, there is no apostrophe in Founders Day as it pertains to Delta Sigma Theta. The memo was sent out years ago and it still stands.

You don't have to adhere to that but Sorors should. Period.
Ditto and ditto.
Forever and ever Amen.

DSTCHAOS 01-15-2008 01:08 PM
The and thee mean two different things. LOL.

Thou and thine are supposed to mean "you" and "your(s)" right? LOL. Or is that just "you" as it refers to "God."


<-----Speaks in Bible language everyday. It's fun.

Ms. Intellect 01-15-2008 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1581376)
It takes everything in me not to correct every time the apostrophe is used.
I've been guilty of this - the apostrophe in Founders Day.

CrimsonTide4 01-15-2008 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1581386)
The and thee mean two different things. LOL.

Thou and thine are supposed to mean "you" and "your(s)" right? LOL. Or is that just "you" as it refers to "God."


<-----Speaks in Bible language everyday. It's fun.
Verily, I say unto thee, thy post is true. The is an article and thee/thine/thou/thy are pronouns.

DSTCHAOS 01-15-2008 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide4 (Post 1581389)
Verily, I say unto thee, thy post is true. The is an article and thee/thine/thou/thy are pronouns.
Woman, thou art loose from grammatical errors.

OOhsoflyDELTA#9 01-15-2008 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide4 (Post 1581384)
Maybe for Zeta but not for Delta which is why I said:

Founders Day, in the case of Delta Sigma Theta, [B]does not need an apostrophe
Dang, I just went back to check my post in the Founders Day thread...I'm still licking my wounds from C in the Convention vs Nationals discussion...:o..:p

CrimsonTide4 01-15-2008 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1581393)
Woman, thou art loose from grammatical errors.
http://www.pledgepark.com/images/smilies/laughing.gif
I cannot fool with thee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OOhsoflyDELTA#9 (Post 1581396)
Dang, I just went back to check my post in the Founders Day thread...I'm still licking my wounds from C in the Convention vs Nationals discussion...:o..:p
Whoo whooo whoooo Each one teach one:cool:

DSTCHAOS 01-15-2008 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OOhsoflyDELTA#9 (Post 1581396)
Dang, I just went back to check my post in the Founders Day thread...I'm still licking my wounds from C in the Convention vs Nationals discussion...:o..:p

Well she just typed what a lot of folks were thinking and she was right.

And you all took it without telling her to sit down somewhere. :D Tell her to sit down somewhere next time. :o

nikki1920 01-15-2008 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1581377)
Regardless of opinion, there is no apostrophe in Founders Day as it pertains to Delta Sigma Theta. The memo was sent out years ago and it still stands.

You don't have to adhere to that but Sorors should. Period.

I understand what you are saying, CT4 and Chaos, but I was saying GRAMMATICALLY,it should be s apostrophe. If that is how your organization chooses to display it, then so be it.

I am a very junior grammar nazi and apostrophes make me itch...

lol

anywhoot, back to grammar pet peeves..

not thou art loose from grammatical errors.. lol.

DSTCHAOS 01-15-2008 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki1920 (Post 1581426)
If that is how your organization chooses to display it, then so be it.
Exactly.

OOhsoflyDELTA#9 01-15-2008 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1581411)
Well she just typed what a lot of folks were thinking and she was right.

And you all took it without telling her to sit down somewhere. :D Tell her to sit down somewhere next time. :o
hey I'm still a baby in Delta so I'm still learning...I can show deference as needed, I was "raised" well....plus she a'ight so I don't think she'd tell me anything wrong....lol....

Ms. Intellect 01-15-2008 02:41 PM
[QUOTE=EXTRA4SHORT;1581370]what about the/thee? Sometimes in church, the hymnal says "the", but people pronounce it "thee".

I'm not certain this is what you were referring to. If not, ignore.

Whenever "the" appears before a word that begins with a vowel, it is pronounced using the long "e" sound (i.e. thee elephant). When "the" appears before a word that begins with a consonant, it is pronounced using the shwa sound. Hope this helps.

DSTCHAOS 01-15-2008 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OOhsoflyDELTA#9 (Post 1581459)
hey I'm still a baby in Delta so I'm still learning...I can show deference as needed, I was "raised" well....plus she a'ight so I don't think she'd tell anything wrong....lol....
I know. :)

DSTCHAOS 01-15-2008 03:33 PM
So I am going to thee (for pronunciation) arena to buy tickets. I will bring back thuh (for pronunciation) receipt.

?????

I guess I abide by that "rule" but I don't do so consciously.

EXTRA4SHORT 01-15-2008 04:52 PM
Quote:
P.S. Stop trying to change the Bible, lol.
ok.....:rolleyes:--but it still annoys me (in a very small whiney voice....):p

EXTRA4SHORT 01-15-2008 04:58 PM
*hijack* I just tried to respond to someone's post, but it didn't put it in the little box, can someone help?"...thanks.

*end hijack* (please go easy on me...if I hijacked wrong) :o)

Ms. Intellect 01-15-2008 06:23 PM
[QUOTE=DSTCHAOS;1581543]So I am going to thee (for pronunciation) arena to buy tickets. I will bring back thuh (for pronunciation) receipt.

?????

Precisely.

btb87 01-15-2008 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki1920 (Post 1581426)
I am a very junior grammar nazi and apostrophes make me itch...
This is funny!

DSTRen13 01-16-2008 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki1920 (Post 1581426)
I understand what you are saying, CT4 and Chaos, but I was saying GRAMMATICALLY,it should be s apostrophe. If that is how your organization chooses to display it, then so be it.

I am a very junior grammar nazi and apostrophes make me itch...

lol

anywhoot, back to grammar pet peeves..

not thou art loose from grammatical errors.. lol.
Grammatically, it should only have an apostrophe if we mean it that way. If we don't necessarily mean it as a possessive, then grammatically it isn't wrong.

Founder's Day = the day belonging to a single Founder
Founders' Day = the day belonging to multiple Founders
Founders Day = the day celebrating multiple Founders

DSTRen13 01-16-2008 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1449091)
The rule for using which v. that is overshadowed by the fact that if you use which, put a comma in front of it.
You know, as often this rule is explained to me, I still don't understand when to use which v. that. My only consolation is that I don't think most people will notice when I'm wrong ...

CrimsonTide4 01-16-2008 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTRen13 (Post 1582023)
Grammatically, it should only have an apostrophe if we mean it that way. If we don't necessarily mean it as a possessive, then grammatically it isn't wrong.

Founder's Day = the day belonging to a single Founder
Founders' Day = the day belonging to multiple Founders
Founders Day = the day celebrating multiple Founders
Thank you!:D I was going to post something similar to this today.

DSTCHAOS 01-16-2008 09:35 AM
So now we can feel justified in our course of action. :) The Deltas can breathe a collective sigh of relief. We are "doing right" by our Founders, afterall. ;)

Velocity_14 01-16-2008 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTRen13 (Post 1582023)
Grammatically, it should only have an apostrophe if we mean it that way. If we don't necessarily mean it as a possessive, then grammatically it isn't wrong.

Founder's Day = the day belonging to a single Founder
Founders' Day = the day belonging to multiple Founders
Founders Day = the day celebrating multiple Founders
That was a very good explaination!!!!

CrimsonTide4 01-13-2009 05:04 PM
When talking about more than one Delta, it should be Deltas.
All of the Deltas are wearing red today.

When talking about one Delta and something that belongs to her, it should be Delta's.
That Delta's umbrella is cute.

When talking about more than one Delta and their possessions, it should be Deltas'.
Those Deltas' cars are blocking the entrance to the community service site.


Live it.
Love it.
Embrace it.:)

ladygreek 01-13-2009 08:20 PM
Soror should not be capitalized unless it is used as a prefix.

I hope Soror Smith is having a good Founders day.

I hope all sorors are having good Founders days.

Per the former long-time communications specialist at HQ. She is also the one who gave the explanation for no apostrophe in Founders that DSTRen so eloquently stated a year ago. It is descriptive of the day.

MysticCat 01-14-2009 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1765093)
She is also the one who gave the explanation for no apostrophe in Founders that DSTRen so eloquently stated a year ago. It is descriptive of the day.
I think we discussed this a few years back, but this is one of those things that varies from group to group. For some groups it's Founders Day, while others use Founders' Day. For us, per our Constitution, it's actually Founder's Day. I try to keep up with the preferences of each group when I'm wishing folks a "Happy Founder__ Day," but I fear I fail more than I succeed. :o

(And yes, DSTRen's explanation is good.)


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