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ErinIsBadNews 05-16-2007 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448872)
You think he would go through that much trouble?
Yea, I know they will. Rapist go through a lot of trouble to rape. If they just wanted sex (assuming they couldn't get it through normal means) they'd buy it.

GeekyPenguin 05-16-2007 09:28 PM
Here's the original GC thread on this - people seemed to like it more then. I wonder what's changed.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1448876)
You've never heard of women getting raped with curling irons? Knives? Horrendous things. Rapists, the kind who watch, choose a woman and attack her, WILL do that. It's all about power. And after he finds she had the audacity to wear it, he'll hurt her more.
Oh. Wow. I heard of them using weapons as a threat to get it, but never using weapons as sex/rape tools. That's new to me.

Dionysus 05-16-2007 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448888)
Oh. Wow. I heard of them using weapons as a threat to get it, but never using weapons as sex/rape tools. That's new to me.
Yes, rapists are obviously sick sick people. I thought I was sheltered. Are you 16?

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionysus (Post 1448890)
Yes, rapists are obviously sick sick people. I thought I was sheltered. Are you 16?
No.

It's just all new to me that's all.

ErinIsBadNews 05-16-2007 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448893)
No.

It's just all new to me that's all.
You don't watch any of the Law and Orders or CSIs??? I fall asleep to Court TV because it makes me feel safe. lol.

tld221 05-16-2007 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin (Post 1448886)
Here's the original GC thread on this - people seemed to like it more then. I wonder what's changed.
well i wouldnt say "people like them more then" since there were only 5 posts.

i dont know what's changed really. i think the realization of the fact that the product sux (the website's FAQ alone turns me off and the pics to go with it are icing on the "hell no" cake).

Drolefille 05-16-2007 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448888)
Oh. Wow. I heard of them using weapons as a threat to get it, but never using weapons as sex/rape tools. That's new to me.
Yeah, It's not about sex, it's about power and humiliation. So anything that hurts the woman makes the man feel better. Anything the woman does to provoke him only makes it worse.

I always learned, never get in a car with a person who's threatening you. If he's going to kill you, make him do it right there on the street, but don't let him take you to somewhere where he'll have more time and be able to hurt kill you without anyone knowing where to find you. Yell, scream, fight back. He's more likely to let you go than to shoot or stab you in public. Just don't go quietly.

And, for your news, a brave 11 year old fought off her 19 year old attacker. He was trying to take her up the staircase, possibly to the roof of her apartment building. She's 4'5'' he's 6'2'' and saved herself by crying and screaming.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_135073220.html

Drolefille 05-16-2007 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tld221 (Post 1448897)
well i wouldnt say "people like them more then" since there were only 5 posts.

i dont know what's changed really. i think the realization of the fact that the product sux (the website's FAQ alone turns me off and the pics to go with it are icing on the "hell no" cake).
And on the surface it seems like a good defense, a way to get back at the evil rapists. People just don't take the details into consideration.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinIsBadNews (Post 1448896)
You don't watch any of the Law and Orders or CSIs??? I fall asleep to Court TV because it makes me feel safe. lol.
No. I don't watch any of that.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1448902)
Yeah, It's not about sex, it's about power and humiliation. So anything that hurts the woman makes the man feel better. Anything the woman does to provoke him only makes it worse.

I always learned, never get in a car with a person who's threatening you. If he's going to kill you, make him do it right there on the street, but don't let him take you to somewhere where he'll have more time and be able to hurt kill you without anyone knowing where to find you. Yell, scream, fight back. He's more likely to let you go than to shoot or stab you in public. Just don't go quietly.

And, for your news, a brave 11 year old fought off her 19 year old attacker. He was trying to take her up the staircase, possibly to the roof of her apartment building. She's 4'5'' he's 6'2'' and saved herself by crying and screaming.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_135073220.html
I guess I was wrong. I thought it was mostly about the sex, because of the semen DNA they find inside women after being raped. It just seems like these perverts just want to get off. What about these date rapes and stuff like that? How is that mostly a power thing? Some of the creeps know these women very well, and force themselves on her.

Drolefille 05-16-2007 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448916)
I guess I was wrong. I thought it was mostly about the sex, because of the semen DNA they find inside women after being raped. It just seems like these perverts just want to get off. What about these date rapes and stuff like that? How is that mostly a power thing? Some of the creeps know these women very well, and force themselves on her.
They get off, but they're getting off on the pain and the violence and the power. It's like a fetish but it's not harmless like shoes. It's terrible.

Date rapes are difficult. Sometimes it's idiocy, sometimes it's taking advantage of their power over a girl in the moment even though they're not violent people, sometime's it's alcohol on both parties parts. A lot of times there's an idea that the woman deserves it because she's dirty, all women are sluts, that sort of thing.

My opinion is that date rapists will not usually become "regular" rapists as they don't really get off on the power stuff as much as it's just a crime of opportunity. They're still using the power to their advantage, but the whole thing's a continuum not black or white.

I'm actually taking a sexual dysfunction and family violence class this summer so I can share more as we get into the violence part.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1448921)
They get off, but they're getting off on the pain and the violence and the power. It's like a fetish but it's not harmless like shoes. It's terrible.

Date rapes are difficult. Sometimes it's idiocy, sometimes it's taking advantage of their power over a girl in the moment even though they're not violent people, sometime's it's alcohol on both parties parts. A lot of times there's an idea that the woman deserves it because she's dirty, all women are sluts, that sort of thing.

My opinion is that date rapists will not usually become "regular" rapists as they don't really get off on the power stuff as much as it's just a crime of opportunity. They're still using the power to their advantage, but the whole thing's a continuum not black or white.

I'm actually taking a sexual dysfunction and family violence class this summer so I can share more as we get into the violence part.
Guys are pigs. Well..some are.

Drolefille 05-16-2007 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448925)
Guys are pigs. Well..some are.
Well, there ARE women rapists out there too. Like with women, just because a guy's body gets aroused doesn't mean that he consents. This too is about power.

However it is predominantly a male thing. I think women make up for it, you know metaphorically, with the women who falsely accuse men of rape. You get men whose lives are ruined and true victims who aren't beleived because of it.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1448933)
Well, there ARE women rapists out there too. Like with women, just because a guy's body gets aroused doesn't mean that he consents. This too is about power.

However it is predominantly a male thing. I think women make up for it, you know metaphorically, with the women who falsely accuse men of rape. You get men whose lives are ruined and true victims who aren't beleived because of it.
Women rapist? No. How is that possible? I don't see how, guys are physically stronger than women.

tld221 05-16-2007 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1448921)
They get off, but they're getting off on the pain and the violence and the power. It's like a fetish but it's not harmless like shoes. It's terrible.

Date rapes are difficult. Sometimes it's idiocy, sometimes it's taking advantage of their power over a girl in the moment even though they're not violent people, sometime's it's alcohol on both parties parts. A lot of times there's an idea that the woman deserves it because she's dirty, all women are sluts, that sort of thing.

My opinion is that date rapists will not usually become "regular" rapists as they don't really get off on the power stuff as much as it's just a crime of opportunity. They're still using the power to their advantage, but the whole thing's a continuum not black or white.

I'm actually taking a sexual dysfunction and family violence class this summer so I can share more as we get into the violence part.
i read / was told that date rapers get off on the whole power shift and the added bonus of destroying the trust that was built in said relationship. so the woman (or man) is left not only feeling physically taken advantage of, but also mentall. its a blow to the self-esteem that they were "dumb enough" to let it happen, and by someone they knew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448936)
Women rapist? No. How is that possible? I don't see how, guys are physically stronger than women.
ok, i see this being a rehashed topic that may have been had on GC, but...

Y E S. women can be rapists. the issue of power and control still exists. i think in this case, the man may be of the "i cant believe a woman took advantage of me sexually... i shouldve enjoyed it, but i didnt... what's wrong with me" vs a woman thinking "i didn't want that... was it my fault... did i ask for this... maybe i shouldn't have gone with him, or been out late, or whatever"

as for a woman physically holding a man down and raping him... who knows. she could drug him like a dude. or she could beat him silly just like a dude could a woman. some male rapists arent as big and rough as you'd imagine them to be.

and man-on-man rape happens too if we're gonna go this route... but i cant imagine a dude (gay or straight) is gonna stick a Rapex up his butt and hope for a safe night.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tld221 (Post 1448952)
i read / was told that date rapers get off on the whole power shift and the added bonus of destroying the trust that was built in said relationship. so the woman (or man) is left not only feeling physically taken advantage of, but also mentall. its a blow to the self-esteem that they were "dumb enough" to let it happen, and by someone they knew.



ok, i see this being a rehashed topic that may have been had on GC, but...

Y E S. women can be rapists. the issue of power and control still exists. i think in this case, the man may be of the "i cant believe a woman took advantage of me sexually... i shouldve enjoyed it, but i didnt... what's wrong with me" vs a woman thinking "i didn't want that... was it my fault... did i ask for this... maybe i shouldn't have gone with him, or been out late, or whatever"

as for a woman physically holding a man down and raping him... who knows. she could drug him like a dude. or she could beat him silly just like a dude could a woman. some male rapists arent as big and rough as you'd imagine them to be.

and man-on-man rape happens too if we're gonna go this route... but i cant imagine a dude (gay or straight) is gonna stick a Rapex up his butt and hope for a safe night.
I could see if the guy wasn't physically attracted to the woman, but if he's physically attracted to her, and he gets an erection, knowing him, he's gonna enjoy it rather he wanted it or not. I heard that guys think about sex every 7 seconds or something like that.:rolleyes:

lol :p at the gay rapist.

Drolefille 05-16-2007 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448936)
Women rapist? No. How is that possible? I don't see how, guys are physically stronger than women.
Lets say the guy is drunk, the woman sober. He's passed out. She physically arouses him and has sex with him without his consent. Is this rape? Because if it's rape for a woman, it's rape for a man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448963)
I could see if the guy wasn't physically attracted to the woman, but if he's physically attracted to her, and he gets an erection, knowing him, he's gonna enjoy it rather he wanted it or not. I heard that guys think about sex every 7 seconds or something like that.:rolleyes:

lol :p at the gay rapist.
NO NO NO. Physical arousal =/= consent. Women have orgasmed during rape because their bodies were stimulated by it. But it does NOT mean they wanted it and it does NOT make it consensual. These women have to live with the guilt of their body's betrayal over the betrayal of whoever raped them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tld221 (Post 1448952)
i read / was told that date rapers get off on the whole power shift and the added bonus of destroying the trust that was built in said relationship. so the woman (or man) is left not only feeling physically taken advantage of, but also mentall. its a blow to the self-esteem that they were "dumb enough" to let it happen, and by someone they knew.
Makes sense to me, I haven't actually gotten to study them specifically. I tend to think it's an overall malformed perception of women and their purpose. I do think there's just really stupid guys out there too.




Quote:
ok, i see this being a rehashed topic that may have been had on GC, but...

Y E S. women can be rapists. the issue of power and control still exists. i think in this case, the man may be of the "i cant believe a woman took advantage of me sexually... i shouldve enjoyed it, but i didnt... what's wrong with me" vs a woman thinking "i didn't want that... was it my fault... did i ask for this... maybe i shouldn't have gone with him, or been out late, or whatever"

as for a woman physically holding a man down and raping him... who knows. she could drug him like a dude. or she could beat him silly just like a dude could a woman. some male rapists arent as big and rough as you'd imagine them to be.

and man-on-man rape happens too if we're gonna go this route... but i cant imagine a dude (gay or straight) is gonna stick a Rapex up his butt and hope for a safe night.
A lot of times a man is afraid to fight back. There are women who emotionally and physically abuse their partners as well. Domestic abuse is viewed as very one sided because hey "a guy should fight back right?" Just as certain personality characteristics can keep a woman with an abusive man, the opposite is true.

ETA: Like women don't have sexual thoughts all the time too. That's a fake statistic btw, there's no way to measure that accurately.

tld221 05-16-2007 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448963)
I could see if the guy wasn't physically attracted to the woman, but if he's physically attracted to her, and he gets an erection, knowing him, he's gonna enjoy it rather he wanted it or not. I heard that guys think about sex every 7 seconds or something like that.:rolleyes:

lol :p at the gay rapist.

umm. no. men and women think about sex equally. and how many times can it be said that rape is about the POWER not the ACT. if a man is being forced to f*ck a woman and she's successful with it, it will screw with his head a little. part of him will like it because its like "hey, sex i didnt have to work for!" but the other part of him will be like "WTF, she totally forced me into it and thats not cool."

considering the way we understand gender roles, it may seem like a woman raping a man is undoable and ridiculous. but it can happen. especially in the case of an older female vs a younger male (i think of sister-brother, mother/aunt-son/nephew and babysitter-charge).

and gay rapes are nothing to laugh about. well, rape in general isnt anything to laught at.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 10:56 PM
What?? How can a woman have an orgasm from getting raped? Where did you get this info from? There's no way a rapist perverted creep could give me an orgasm.

Then again my x boyfriend couldn't either.:rolleyes:

tld221 05-16-2007 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448987)
What?? How can a woman have an orgasm from getting raped? Where did you get this info from? There's no way a rapist perverted creep could give me an orgasm.

Then again my x boyfriend couldn't either.:rolleyes:
good freaking lord.

:smh: orgasm is an involuntary occurence. it will happen whether the arousal is on purpose or by accident, for pleasure or for someone else's, with your consent or without.

and there lies another portion of the emotional abuse that results from rape: a woman will wonder how she enjoyed something that was wrong and against her will, and therefore blaming herself or downplaying the severity of what actually happened by saying "well i liked it so... maybe it wasnt wrong? i guess i shouldnt report it then :shrugs:"

Drolefille 05-16-2007 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1448987)
What?? How can a woman have an orgasm from getting raped? Where did you get this info from? There's no way a rapist perverted creep could give me an orgasm.

Then again my x boyfriend couldn't either.:rolleyes:
Orgasmed when raped in an abusive relationship
Rape Myths
Wiki on Rape
Can a person orgasm during rape?

I'm getting my Master's in Counseling and I have a degree in Psychology, they teach us about this stuff. You should educate yourself. The Wiki article gives the most info on Rape in general.

Drolefille 05-16-2007 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tld221 (Post 1448995)
good freaking lord.

:smh: orgasm is an involuntary occurence. it will happen whether the arousal is on purpose or by accident, for pleasure or for someone else's, with your consent or without.

and there lies another portion of the emotional abuse that results from rape: a woman will wonder how she enjoyed something that was wrong and against her will, and therefore blaming herself or downplaying the severity of what actually happened by saying "well i liked it so... maybe it wasnt wrong? i guess i shouldnt report it then :shrugs:"

What do they teach in schools these days? Hell, my first day of college they had a rape seminar that everyone was encouraged to go to ( and bribed the freshmen with housing preference for the next year).

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1448999)
Orgasmed when raped in an abusive relationship
Rape Myths
Wiki on Rape
Can a person orgasm during rape?

I'm getting my Master's in Counseling and I have a degree in Psychology, they teach us about this stuff. You should educate yourself. The Wiki article gives the most info on Rape in general.
Thanks. I didn't know.

tld221 05-16-2007 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1449002)
What do they teach in schools these days? Hell, my first day of college they had a rape seminar that everyone was encouraged to go to ( and bribed the freshmen with housing preference for the next year).
for realz. ive sat in on so many rape/sexual assault, alcohol and other drug abuse, and LGBT seminars in college that i forget that some of this isn't common knowledge to people.

i think schools are teaching stuff, just that ppl like CG arent listening. theyre sitting in the back with their iPod on and not giving a crap.

PrettyBoy 05-16-2007 11:24 PM
This is crazy but I'll post it. I like this new device. I think it should take it completely off though. If a low down dog pervert rapist is that sick to misuse what he has to take advantage of a woman, then he shouldn't have one at all.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyBoy (Post 1449021)
This is crazy but I'll post it. I like this new device. I think it should take it completely off though. If a low down dog pervert rapist is that sick to misuse what he has to take advantage of a woman, then he shouldn't have one at all.
That's a little extreme.

Drolefille 05-16-2007 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyBoy (Post 1449021)
This is crazy but I'll post it. I like this new device. I think it should take it completely off though. If a low down dog pervert rapist is that sick to misuse what he has to take advantage of a woman, then he shouldn't have one at all.
While in theory I agree, in reality it doesn't work like that at all.

PrettyBoy 05-16-2007 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1449024)
While in theory I agree, in reality it doesn't work like that at all.
I know, and that's too bad. The justice system is designed to protect the criminal. Why? I wish I knew.

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyBoy (Post 1449033)
I know, and that's too bad. The justice system is designed to protect the criminal. Why? I wish I knew.
I don't think it is. I think the only way a rapist is getting off is if he's a rich celebrity and has enough money to hire a high powered attorney. Then maybe.

PrettyBoy 05-16-2007 11:50 PM
I disagree. Anytime a thief/rapist or whatever can break into someone's house, see a gun and then turn to run only to get shot in the back and then have the person who pulled the trigger sent to prison for shooting a stranger for breaking into his/her home. If that's not protecting the criminal then I don't know what is.

My parents live next door to a judge. I hear all kinds of crazy scenarios that don't make sense at all.

Dionysus 05-16-2007 11:51 PM
This thread is turning into a train wreck. :(

AlexMack 05-16-2007 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1449043)
I don't think it is. I think the only way a rapist is getting off is if he's a rich celebrity and has enough money to hire a high powered attorney. Then maybe.
Unfortunately rapists get off (pun unintended) a lot because so much of a rape case is circumstancial unless there is indisputable DNA evidence. Normally it'll be a his word vs. her word case. For this reason, a lot of rapes and sexual assaults do go unreported. I'm sure that a thread asking people on GC who's been raped and/or sexually assaulted and not reported it would garner quite a few responses.

PrettyBoy 05-16-2007 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centaur532 (Post 1449052)
Unfortunately rapists get off (pun unintended) a lot because so much of a rape case is circumstancial unless there is indisputable DNA evidence. Normally it'll be a his word vs. her word case. For this reason, a lot of rapes and sexual assaults do go unreported. I'm sure that a thread asking people on GC who's been raped and/or sexually assaulted and not reported it would garner quite a few responses.
My question is this? If there is enough evidence DNA and all to convict him, then why should it be his word against hers? It shouldn't. I don't even think he should get a trial at all. Just send him to prison.

tld221 05-16-2007 11:58 PM
what is the sentence for being convicted on rape charges? how many years does it get?

i know there are quite a few jobs/careers you wont be able to pursue with that on your record, but if said rapist is found guilty (which i take it to be not so much), are those his only consequences: jail time, being denied certain jobs, and being on a sex offender registry?

and what happens if a woman loses a trial, in that she lied about the rape (and that it never happened, cause we know cases like this do happen). is there a consequence for her, aside from looking like an ass? is she just charged with purgery (sp)?

cheerfulgreek 05-16-2007 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionysus (Post 1449051)
This thread is turning into a train wreck. :(
How is this thread turning into a trainwreck when everyone is on the same subject?:confused:

Drolefille 05-17-2007 12:01 AM
No, I'm torn because of my education. While criminals should be punished, they should also be treated. Some people can indeed be rehabilitated. So my emotional side says kill the bastards and my intellectual side acknowledges that it isn't so simple.

Drolefille 05-17-2007 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyBoy (Post 1449059)
My question is this? If there is enough evidence DNA and all to convict him, then why should it be his word against hers? It shouldn't. I don't even think he should get a trial at all. Just send him to prison.
Because he says she consented and she says she didn't. Semen is proof of intercourse, not proof of rape. And say they're both drunk off their asses, who was raped? The aggressor? Both of them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tld221 (Post 1449060)
what is the sentence for being convicted on rape charges? how many years does it get?

i know there are quite a few jobs/careers you wont be able to pursue with that on your record, but if said rapist is found guilty (which i take it to be not so much), are those his only consequences: jail time, being denied certain jobs, and being on a sex offender registry?

and what happens if a woman loses a trial, in that she lied about the rape (and that it never happened, cause we know cases like this do happen). is there a consequence for her, aside from looking like an ass? is she just charged with purgery (sp)?
Sentences vary a LOT depending on what state you're in and the type of offense and prior history. I'm pretty sure Probation is potentially an option in some areas, mandated therapy can be done in conjunction with jail time.

Most people are reluctant to charge an alleged rape victim with perjury because it IS possible it happened but couldn't be proved. But it's becoming more common if it's clear she lied.

PrettyBoy 05-17-2007 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1449062)
No, I'm torn because of my education. While criminals should be punished, they should also be treated. Some people can indeed be rehabilitated. So my emotional side says kill the bastards and my intellectual side acknowledges that it isn't so simple.
I think a thief that maybe might have stolen something that didn't belong to him/her should get another chance after serving about 15-20 years.

Someone that has physically hurt another individual should be locked up for life. Period. Especially if it's rape, or murder that serves no purpose.

PrettyBoy 05-17-2007 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1449064)
Because he says she consented and she says she didn't. Semen is proof of intercourse, not proof of rape. And say they're both drunk off their asses, who was raped? The aggressor? Both of them?



Sentences vary a LOT depending on what state you're in and the type of offense and prior history. I'm pretty sure Probation is potentially an option in some areas, mandated therapy can be done in conjunction with jail time.

Most people are reluctant to charge an alleged rape victim with perjury because it IS possible it happened but couldn't be proved. But it's becoming more common if it's clear she lied.
He shouldn't have been drunk. He should have been more responsible. Her too. Plus, they can tell if there was forced penetration. I just think things should be cut and dry, black and white. None of this grey area stuff. I would suck as an attorney.:rolleyes:


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