^^^oh nah, i'm not sayin one should skate in. i'm not even a fan of this MIP shit, but hey its here and it doesnt look like its goin anywhere anytime soon, even tho MIP was a knee-jerk reaction by our respective orgs HQs. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! i cant fucks wit that skating shit either, but like i said, there's a way to pledge hard with out OD'n on pplz.


oh yeah, let me say this...if you're paper, and thats the only way that chapter does it...so be it, you have no control over the way you come in.

Really? :)

--->to the corner mulattogyrl:p

I sawwy :D

There it is.

But there is one problem. The active chapter at my school are known as "paper made". I've been informed that paper made means they have not been "MADE"(I'm hoping we all know what this means), they have only went through the RUSH and/or paper process.


Okay, I dont know what that means, I'm not sure if we call it somthing else or i'm having a blonde moment or i'm just not up to par but can you explain that to me in lamens terms pleaze, Sorry to be slow!

As an NPC member, I've never used/heard it used within the NPC. "Pledging" and "paper" are often associated with NPHC organizations (although I know some other council orgs use it as well) and are used to describe two very different membership intake processes.

Some members are very sensitive about the subject, so my suggestion is to do a search and read up on the terms to get more information.

One Love,

I have a great idea! Since you're concerned about joining the chapter at your college because they are "paper" why not write a letter to the National President of your desired organization and let them know of your discontent. Be sure to include your real name and permanent address!

:D That is a great idea!

In a nutshell:
"Paper made" = strictly adhering to the membership intake programs of the NPHC orgs, which, in the late '80s, did away with pledging and hazing.

"Made right" = being a part of a sub rosa ("underground") pledge program which incorporate activities that constitute hazing.

Yeah, good idea :D :rolleyes:

Well said soror...

I don't attest to know ANYTHING about your organization but...your Founders pledged each other?

Sweetie are you a Neo? Or an undergrad? I know people who were on line for two semesters and couldn't tell you who their sands are (and before we get to the big/little line thing it was only three of them) I work with a woman who says she pledged so hard in undergrad she doesn't see the point of being active now. It was just something fun to do in college. Time, sweat and blood don't mean $h!t. Now one could argue she didn't have the right mentality when she applied but she was "made".....REALLY "MADE"

LMAO






you r so wrong 4 that

I know I am about to get burned at the stake here, but is it so wrong to want to have a process?

I haven't researched it but I am sure there are many threads on here about how active (beyond graduation) made vs. MIP members are, and I'm also sure you have the same thing on both sides - active and inactive members. Really I think it just depends on how down you were from the beginning, irregardless of whether you pledged (or were hazed) or not, but that's off topic...

Is it really so wrong for this girl to want a real process?? To want to feel that sense of accomplishment for doing what at times seems impossible?

To the poster who started this, I'd say - if this particular sorority is what is really in your heart and you can't see yourself doing anything else, then it shouldn't matter how you are brought in. But if the "paper" issue is really an issue for you (this is a personal decision), then find other options.

Have a great night everyone!

*running for the nearest extinguisher*

There is a process, it's called Membership Intake Process. It's just that new process is different from the OLD process.

Things change and the Sorority isn't really interested in potential members that don't understand or accept the NEW process. And as quiet as it's kept, at least for this member who participated in the OLD process, I have no respect for folks who don't follow the NEW process. My eternal love is for the Sorority, not the process of coming into the Sorority. So for all those folks who turn their nose up at the NEW process, let it go, or go somewhere else.

In other words, if someone were to brag about how they had an OLD process in this environment, I'd direct them to just pack up their stuff and send it to the Corporate office as their suspension letter would be appearing shortly.

As a sidenote, in the VERY beginning about 95 years ago, there was NO process. There was no application or letter submission. Membership in UG was similiar to grad, the SORORS invited you.

Well put!
Touche'

Oh really? The founders of Alpha Delta Pi and Phi Mu hazed? The founders of Sigma Chi and Beta Theta Phi hazed?

Interesting how you know this. :rolleyes:

I have to strongly agree with this as well. Back in the day, ~ early 1960's when my mom came through that is exactly how she came in, she was invited in. Yeah, they did silly stuff when she was on line, but no where near the physical and mental abuse that used to occur before MIP.

You can pledge without physical and mental hazing.

I'm staying out of this conversation but this is something that people fail to realize.


***exits thread****

^^^^^ Don't leave!!!! :p

Seriously though, I never thought it did anyone any good to first of all stay on line for more than 8 weeks. I mean, come on, what the h@ll does it take more than 8 weeks to learn about your org? Some one said they, or someone they knew, was on line for two semesters? Was that person getting a minor in pledge education? :rolleyes:

Secondly, I think the physical and mental abuse during pledging is no more different from what one would find in a dysfunctional family - daddy beats me black and blue and calls me stupid because he loves me. That is bull isht.

What a perfect analogy! It could also be like a dysfunctional relationship too where he beats you because he loves you. That's the type of relationship I don't need.

I often wonder if pledging(in the traditional sense) cultivated and promoted lifelong membership. If not, then what's the point?

I agree.

This thread if off the hook. That's all.

I think pledging is just the begining, staying active helps to maintain the lifelong membership.

Hey guys, everyone has their own opinion. I agree with some of you. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have the same benefits as everyone else because you didn't get in through the traditional way of pledging. I also think it's what you do once you're in the fraternity/sorority, not what you did to get in. Someone had mentioned founders being hazed. I can't speak for Phi Mu and the other NPC sorority that was mentioned earlier, because those organizations don't really interest me enough to speak on them, but I can speak for the Founders of Kappa Alpha Psi who were all African American men. I think if I attended a college that was predominantly white that excluded me from just about everything other students could do because of the color of my skin, I would consider that a form of hazing. Being called the "N" word often while going to class isn't nice either. Name calling is a form of hazing. Isn't it? Infact they were called the "N" word so much the name of our fraternity was changed to Kappa Alpha Psi. You can find this information at any bookstore. No, they didn't haze each other, and I know they wouldn't agree with some of the things that are going on now, but what they had to go through back in 1911 because of the their skin being their sin, to me is a form of hazing. In fact if you read some of the history of Kappa Alpha Psi, you will clearly see what they went through. It was no merry go round ride. It was a hard ride.

As far as my pledge period goes, I won't comment on it, or what I had to do to become a member, but what I will say is I'm not a Neo. I'm a graduate and now working on an Industrial Design degree. I'm also very active in my fraternity and "financial". I'm a lifetime member. For those of you who don't agree with me, it's no big deal. We're all entitled to our own opinions. I just don't think anything great should come without hard work. That's all.

Having contradicted yourself a couple of times within this thread, I'll leave it with this.

PLEDGING and HAZING are two different things. In the realm of the NPHC, as far as our National Headquarters is concerned, both are illegal. Point blank. Period. Anything said on a message board about a pledge process and/or being hazed constitutes an admission of guilt (even if it is anonymous) as well as a COMPLETE lack of D-I-S-C-R-E-T-I-O-N.

The problem with the original post was not so much that anyone decried her willingness to work as being a bad thing, more so her haughty, arrogant, downright condescending attitude towards young ladies who were in a chapter of an organization that she is aspiring to be in. If your love is TRULY for the organization and its principles, then you should follow its mandates and work hard for it...whether you're paper or not.

This backwards ass, crabs in a barrel, paper vs. pledge mentality is gonna get everybody disbanded sooner or later.


FYI-I am a graduate too, working on a masters, AND a life member...

I agree with everything in your post. But, I would like to point out that there is a timeline at play here. The NPHC MIP was put into place ~1990 / 1991. There are many of us on this board who came through our respective orgs long before that. I was initiated in 1988 when pledging and hazing were very much the accepted norm in NPHC orgs. I said this to say that if someone asks me about my process, or about the NPHC process in general before 1990, then I will tell them how it was - pledging and hazing and all. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see that as an admission of guilt - I may not like it and agree with it, but if that is how things happened, then I am going to talk about it.

Now, if someone comes on here talking about how they were pledged / hazed *after* NPHC MIP was put into place then I think your above statement is very much correct.

But hazing was illegal before 1990, too. If people before 1990 are bragging about getting hit, eating frat/sorority food, etc, I think there's still a problem. But if someone before 1990 is talking about line names, public greetings, line numbers, etc, that's different.

I do understand both sides though, but as ladygreek would say, even "aboveground" had an "underground."

OneLovve:

I found the most illustrious Sorority for you!!!

This chapter PLEDGES with some hazing...

But I'm sorry, they wear these cute orange jumpsuits and little jelly plastic sandals. Your line sister--brother for the day will be Bubba and you will get a daily beatdown from the opposing group, The Aryan Brotherhood/Sisterhood. They have an isolation chamber--I mean, meditation room. And at your chapter house, you have to share with several other criminals, errr, inmate, I mean chapter members.

I can dial for your central booking--a-hem, full of paper made intake process and you will be a full member for within ~24 hours+...

It's at the University of Hard Knocks. They have ~50 chapters in every state! And you get to interact with legal council in a jar...

Good luck with your application. You don't need a GPA or units!!!

This is so exciting to me!!! :rolleyes:

"I will say is I'm not a Neo"

1911, not being a neo isn't relative (IMHO). One could be a member for YEARS and still be a neophyte.

(double negatives, YIKES). I helped an undergraduate chapter charter. Those ladies WORKED HARD but they didn't have a traditional pledge period, I would challenge anyone who told them they didn't EARN those letters.

I guess I'm just a little confused (it could be that I've not interpreted your posts correctly) by your posts. After 1990, no NPHC organization had a "pledge" period, and those that "cheated" certainly wouldn't get in an open forum and proudly proclaim that they violated their organizations bylaws.

True. I said that one may not have agreed with what went on during the 'pre-MIP' NPHC era, but if it happened, it happened. We can not go back and change the past.

I have an uncle who is an Omega who crossed in the late 60's and he is *very* proud of the fact that when he was given 'wood' the board broke on his butt. He still brags about it to this day. There was a time that he had the board displayed on the matle of his fireplace and when guests would come over he would proudly tell them the story. Was that type of hazing illegal then? I'm sure it was. But the point is that it was still openly accepted and those who experienced that form of pledging are going to discuss it.


Depends on who you talk to. Some people also consider this a form of hazing.

I hear that BLUENYC2... this is some bull! What it boils down too is this: Are you joining XYZ organization because you believe in perpetuating the ideals for which it was founded???
If you're (OneLovve) joining to wear 'Nalia, throw up signs, and stroll at parties, and/or for social status then save your self (or your parents) a couple "bills" and don't waste your own or the organizations time. Greek life my not be for you. This is a LIFETIME membership, period.

Good luck whatever you decide.

MIP
 

Excuse me for coming in as a non-Greek and putting my two cents in. I felt as if I wanted to comment because the topic interested me a whole lot. For those who have read my previous post before when I was outted about my mishap back in 2001 due to someone posting a PM I sent them, you can see why I commented here. I am very aware of the MIP process. Especially pertaining to one particular organization and how it works. There is a big controversy with certain members of organizations who feel that being 'paper' is not the right way to go which leads to you not being respected by those individuals and lacking pertinent information pertaining to your organization. Trust, I know this first hand. A lot of my friends are Greek and know my situation. I know their stories as well. Anyway, MIP is what it is. However, we all know that hazing/pledging still does exist. I have a friend that just went through her MIP process, received her letters, and was asked if she wanted to be pledged to continue her knowledge process. She called me and asked me what to do. I told her no. I educated her that she is already a recognized member. Anything that she doesn't know, she can obtain the information via her sorors or another source. To make a long story short, she ended up not learning a whole lot of information about her organization within that short period of time. She knew nothing of the unofficial symbols and what they stood for. She didn't know how to hold her hand sign and barely knew the handshake. She didn't know important points of the history of her organization. Hell, she didn't even get her history book for over 3 months after she was pinned. With all this being said, she felt that she did not want to attend any sorority functions. What if she was to be challenged by a soror and was not able to answer a question? That is a very uncomfortable feeling. However, she is learning all things she has lacked via MIP. She is becoming more comfortable and more educated daily. However, you have to find open-minded people within an organization that will teach you things you have missed out on that they may feel you should have learned during your process. She has ran into some of her sorors that felt she should have learned this information in MIP, and they wouldn't educate her. Yep, that's sisterhood all right. All in all, I feel there is nothing wrong with being paper. You'll earn respect as you go along and continue learning for the rest of your life. After all, you are joining the organization because you are fond of its foundation/principles. You shouldn't join it because you don't want to be paper. That's just a term people made up. You will still be part of the organization. Don't let the stereotypes of the organization make you. Let your morals and good deeds help make the organization.

Good luck OneLovve in any and everything that you are trying to achieve. If your heart is really in the organization, it shouldn't matter how you make it in nor what chapter you go through. If that really matters to you, then you should rethink trying to join. If not, you shouldn't let anything/anyone discourage you.

I have two cousins that while in undergrad, pledged a particular sorority. They went through the "Pledge" process. The sad fact is neither of them is active to this day. The reason being and we have had this conversation on many occassions is that in hindsight they felt like the being "made" process they went through was excessive and unncessary.

They are so turned off by their sorority that the mere mention of being active turns them off. In the long run how did that process help them or the organization. It didn't! Now you have two individuals as well as many others who don't even want to have anything to do with their organization.

The whole purpose for me to join a sorority was one to help through volunteering and other aspects of community service. Secondly it was to enjoy a sisterhood, with like minded women who all bring something unique to the table and to our organization.

Like one poster stated its not as easy as people think to go through MIP. There is no skating in as some may think.

As for the young lady that posted this thread initially. Consider what are your real motives for wanting to become a member of that particular sisterhood. make sure they are correct, if not you might want to re-evaluate even attempting to membership of that Sorority. Thats just my .22 cents !

Line# 1223574 :D

Cell Block "Death Row Inmates".

There's a difference between an inmate and a convict...