Well, the blow mixed with alcohol didn't help matters for sure.

Amen.

It seems to me the Macallan25 believes he knows a great deal about many things, but it is more likely that he knows nothing about everything.

Your flippant attitude about the circumstances surrounding the Stiles death are completely disgusting. What type of real life knowledge do you have anyway? More than likely you aren't working and everything you have gotten in your life is because of the golden spoon that your parents gave to you.

The members of the SAE Fraternity at SMU should feel awful, because their culture contributed to this young man's death. Did they force him to do drugs? No, but don't tell me that they didn't make access to these things easier for the young man?

Macallan-it must be so easy for you to sit there and pop off time after time about everything. Take a look at yourself in the mirror. This whole incident goes in stark contrast to the brotherhood that a fraternity is supposed to represent.

Macallan is flippant at times, but now certainly isn't one of them. I suggest you reread the thread and pay attention to the context.

We don't know this -- at least I don't.

My guess is that the college culture in general is as much or more of a factor as SAE's.

IF it is a chapter culture, though, I'll say that it should be closed.

Remeber, no matter what GLO it concerns, it concerns all of us as Greek Members.

There is no flip comments as it saddens every member of the Greek Social World.

If someone does do what was supposedly done when it came to drugs then it should be an important part of the Chapter to try to correct it. I do not care what Campus it is on or how strong the GLO is, a young man died and that is what is the most important thing.

I was accused by an SAE for being hard hearted and that must have been why I railed at a local TV station about running and over long item at the top of the 10:00 news about SAE and a hazing situation and being removed from Campus.

If a member of any GLO dies, we must ask why. Then ask why nothing was done to aid the member before this happened.

Tom, to you this man may just be a statistic or a Risk Management example, but to others he was a friend and brother. It is a tragedy that he died and I think that you should let the SAE's mourn in peace and deal with it in their own way and not drag Risk Management issues into it. You would not want people to treat an LXA death in this manner.

If you're having trouble with this fellow, perhaps I can be of some assistance? Maybe, make him disappear?

Drink bleach.

Fraternity culture? That makes about as much sense as you claiming heterosexuality. Say a guy from Compton or other drug-ridden place somehow by god's saving grace makes it into a fraternity in the South. He was already doing plenty of drugs before hand, and then he gets into the fraternity, does more drugs, and dies. Considering the fraternity may be moderate for their campus in terms of drug use, is it fraternity culture or previous experience which led to the man's death? The drug incident has nothing to do with "brotherhood". My own personal drug use never stemmed from the fraternity, it stemmed from me growing up in a wealthy neighborhood where my friends and I had money to spend on expensive drugs.

I agree with you Elephant Walk. Fraternity culture?? Try culture. Try society. Try living and life experience/up-bringing.
Was there alcohol and drug use in my chapter? Yes. Did I drink? Yes and learned from that experience. Did I do drugs? I "tasted" one night and learned from that experience that I had no use for them. Also the fact that all of the people I was close to, both a school and at home, did not do any kind of drug outside of alcohol also helped.

Others, I know took a different path for what ever reason or reasons. And that could happen within any living, social group or context.

A few more links:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...-sportstop-hed

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/n...LES_S1.article
Which includes this statement:

Jim Caswell, SMU's vice president for student affairs, said Wednesday "the prayers and concerns" of school officials, staff members and students "go toward the Stiles family at this difficult time."
"It's a tragic situation that we're dealing with," Caswell said. "This student was a very popular fellow."
Campus police have been investigating Stiles' death, along with the university's fraternity system, Caswell said. Caswell stressed the Sigma Alpha Epsilon house "was not known as a drug house in any way." The school's fraternities are "certainly not known for problems of this type," he said.

That would be amazing.

I don't know about that quote.

The amount of cocaine done at Southern Methodist, especially among greek life, is damn near legendary.

You spout words, but there was no belittlement intended.

If you have read any of my posts about the death of a Greek Member, I do not care what GLO they are from as it saddens all of us especially me. While not from My GLO, He was a member of a society that we profess and back.

But, them when someone mentions drug usage at certain schools, I wonder who is keeping an eye on their fellow Brothers and Sisters. If this is to become a bigger problem, yes there is a R M problem. If it was a member of LXA, I would mourn and wonder why did it happen?:(

I have no idea what the greek culture is like at SMU in regards to drug use, but what I find saddest about this situation is that this young man obviously had a serious addiction (three narcotics in his system, plus alcohol?!) yet I'm wondering whether his brothers knew about and/or tried to help him? If this was a unique case in the fraternity, I would think the brothers would have noticed something was up and tried to help. If it is not an isolated case, well, that's just scary and I hope the chapter and national steps in to make sure the whole chapter gets help.

Hardly an addiction. Three drugs in a night is usually just the start.

In moderation, of course.

I hope you're being sarcastic. The nature of the drugs, plus that he took them in the same night, suggest compulsive behavior...there was no need for him to take all those drugs to get high. If it was his first time taking them, he probably would've tried them one at a time so he could experience the high each of them gave him. But to take a drug they give cancer patients for pain, plus cocaine, plus another narcotic, then drink...I'm guessing this was not the first time he mixed. When you consider that all of those drugs are HIGHLY addictive, it's not very hard to conclude he had a problem. He was probably so numb he felt nothing most of the time, which is why he probably didn't think anything of combining them.

Money is no excuse for abusing drugs. I grew up with kids from loaded families, and went to college with rich kids, and narcotics were not used as casually as some threads on GC make it seem. Alcohol and pot, then x, were popular, but never cocaine or other hard narcotics. And if it's that popular in the greek system at SMU, well, I'm glad I didn't go to SMU then. I would not want to be surrounded by a bunch of cokeheads and can't believe people consider it no big deal.

While this shouldn't be further discussed...the fentanyl was most likely to make him go to sleep after all the blow he had been doing, it would have made semi-sense. He was tired, wanted to go to bed, so he took that. He wasn't addicted, he just needed sleep, much like i do with a far more safer substance Melatonin (found naturally in the brain, not melanin which tans your skin). So he was really doing two drugs together. Alcohol is consumed like water, so I hardly consider it a drug even though it obviously is. Cocaine was the only question mark on addiction and knowing the drug use at SMU, it was probably just a night out on the town like any other night. Actually knowing the patters of drug usage and so on would probably help you in understanding anything, much less other peoples addictions.

I have to agree with Peppy'-I too hope you are being at least a bit:rolleyes:

FYI/BTB:
While different GLO and School, same drug:

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061222/NEWS/612220337/1007
Article published Dec 22, 2006
Student charged in peer’s death

By Lydia Seabol Avant
Staff Writer
TUSCALOOSA | A University of Alabama student has been charged with the murder of his Theta Chi fraternity brother.

Christopher Skelton, 20, was charged Tuesday with the homicide of James Echols, 19, who died Sept. 5 after taking a high dose of fentanyl, which he allegedly received from Skelton.

Skelton worked at the Rite Aid pharmacy on Skyland Boulevard, and according to an indictment released Thursday, stole numerous medications from the pharmacy and distributed them to fraternity brothers. The Duragesic-brand patch that Echols used reportedly came from Skelton and contained 100 micrograms of fentanyl, a strong pain medication that is usually given to cancer patients, said Tuscaloosa District Attorney Tommy Smith.

“This is an extreme pain killer that is 80 to 100 times more potent than morphine or oxycotin," Smith said. “This was the largest dose available."

Echols reportedly had been partying the night of Sept. 3 and came home to sleep at his residence in the 500 block of 13th Street. A friend found him unresponsive about 1 p.m. on Sept. 4. He was taken by ambulance to DCH Regional Medical Center, where he died at about 9:30 a.m. the next day.

Skelton has also been charged with manslaughter, six counts of unlawful distribution of a controlled substance, six counts of possession and receiving controlled substances, six counts of dispensing prescriptions to an unauthorized person, and second-degree theft of property.

According to the indictment, Skelton illegally distributed Adderall, Lortab and Xanax to at least five other people, although none of them received Fentanyl, however. It was later discovered that the drugs were taken from the Rite Aid pharmacy through an investigation led by the Alabama State Board of Pharmacy and the West Alabama Narcotics Task Force.

Skelton was arrested Wednesday. He was released on $100,000 bail. He will be arraigned in March, Smith said.

Skelton’s case will be the first time a person has been charged with murder for illegally distributing prescription drugs in Tuscaloosa County. But similar cases have been successfully prosecuted elsewhere in Alabama and in other states, Smith said.

Skelton could also face repercussions at school. His case has been referred to judicial affairs for students charged with non-academic violations, said Deborah Lane, executive director of public relations at UA. Lane confirmed that Skelton was a student in the fall of 2006, but could not say whether he will be a student at UA for the spring semester.

No one could be reached for comment at the Theta Chi fraternity house Thursday.

Reach Lydia Seabol Avant at Lydia.seabol@tuscaloosanews or 205-722-0222.


IMHO-this stuff is not water and does not really seem to be the stuff anyone should take just to get the edge off or just to get to sleep.
Unless one really has a death wish. Which given the following...:
"Drop dead and suicide packets are street terms for fentanyl products."


And this GLO Brother and Brother Stiles seemed to have much to live for.They both died way too young.

Since we now seem to have two threads that both involve deaths of GLO members using the same drug, perhaps it is time for some information about the drug in question:
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/fentanyl.html

http://www.streetdrugs.org/fentanyl.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl

http://www.samhsa.gov/drugalerts/fentanyl_july06.aspx

http://www.wqow.com/News/index.php?ID=6670

Flippant attitude? Shut your fucking mouth because you have no clue what you are talking about. I called more than a dozen members of that chapter..talked to them, offered my heartfelt sorrows.........I even drove up there and attended the vigil. So you can quit with whatever it is you are trying to do. I knew more info on this situation than anyone on this board did 10 minutes after they discovered the body. Perhaps you should re-read the thread and enlighten yourself, because right now you sound like an ignorant jackass.

Explain to me what my "real life" knowledge has anything to do with this guy dying, or knowing how he died, and under what circumstances. Yes, I come from a very priveleged family.......that doesn't mean that I don't know about the way things work or that I am stuck in some bubble, shut off from the outside world.

Who the fuck are you to accuse the members of SMU SAE of helping the guy gain quick access to blow and fentanyl? Do you know all of them? Have you seen it personally? No, thats right. You're full of shit. Admit it.

I'm sorry that me "popping off" at a couple of members of this site for blatantly disregarding this kids death and turning it into some bash SAE Risk Management lecture thread gets your panties in a wad.

I'm done. Also, you're an idiot.

Yeah, I was going to say something about how I knew you had talked to plenty of people surrounding the young man already, but I figured it was your place.

I too Brother-I somehow think that the OP(Reality Check1) either crossed threads or crossed posters. Or at least I hope that is what happened.

So I'm not A big GreekChat.com user but stumbled on this thread because I'm bored out of my mind.

I happen to be a LXA at SMU and our house is situated literally 20 paces away from the SAE chapter house.

I just want to weigh in because it seems like everyone who has posted has heard this news from a second or third party source.

I will not comment on the Chapter, I will not comment on Mr. Stiles (apart from the fact that he was a good human being and an all around great guy), and I will not comment on the social scene at SMU.

I am just asking for everyone to stop speculating and pay their respects. This truly has had a tremendous impact on the SMU campus and within Greek Life. I had a huge sinking feeling for quite some time. What pains me even more is that this thread continues and reminds everyone of the tragic event. Also, stop bitching at one another about what happened. It's not worth it.

I have several friends who are SAE's and we, as a chapter, did the best we could to make them feel comfortable. As a house we offered our condolences.

Tom Earp, I don't know who you are or what your chapter is like. All I know is that you are a LXA (LCA if you prefer) and you know better than to lecture. Now is not a time to be (or even seem) imposing.

Please, stop speculating, have some dignity, and just offer your condolences.

thank you.

Thank You.

Macallan, pay a mortgage and buy a car with your own money, and maybe I'll pay attention to you.
You know darn well that some bad stuff went down at your frat. I know they feel remorse, but they are also pretty darn nervous about the long term implications. SMU has a reputation for being a Coke Haven and you know what it isn't funny anymore, period.

A young man has died and somebody should pay for this.

While I think everyone without exception is saddened at the loss of any life so young and promising as this one, part of any such tragedy should involve measures to prevent a repeat tragedy.

That's really what the RM forum is for.

I'd like to see this topic remain respectful towards SAE at SMU. If you're not personally involved, you probably aren't in a position to do much more than speculate as to what happened.

That said, there is a serious nationwide issue of drug abuse occuring within our respective chapters. It's a fine line we have to walk between expecting brothers to fend for themselves, be adults, etc. versus realizing that we're dealing with young men who are prone to make very serious mistakes with their lives. In some respects, we have to be our brothers' keepers.

Somebody did pay. He did. With his life.

Show some fucking respect. If you were my pledge you would be doing RESPECT pushups until you could hardly use your arms.

Wow!
 

It never ceases to amaze me at how, during such a tenuous moment, some of us can seem to forget about what makes the moment so tenuous and fragile to begin with. This moment is not about one guy cussing out another guy. This moment is not about the party life at a southern university, because the issue of drug abuse is pandemic throughout most of America's universities and colleges. It's not about the issue of Risk Management alone, but to some degree, this moment will make every organization and its Headquarters take a strong viable look at its policies and protocols. What we do have is, a family that is due our deepest and most sincere condolences, which must be coupled with our own senses of constraint, remembering to respect the situation enough not to pile on the un-necessary speculations, our self-imposed investigations and our unfounded derivations. We have a fraternal chapter that needs the full scope of our knowledge, in some instances sadly enough, our experiences with similar incidents, and definitely our support, and none of this needs to be weakened by an attitude of empathy, but more importantly, the foundations of what is birthed out of this situation, must strengthened by an attitude of continued education about what led to this incident. We have the responsibility of not putting assunder, by casting dispersions in all directions, the legacy birthed from the life of a young man, that was taken much too soon. We must remember to stand with an air of dignity and honor, as we say goodbye to a fallen brother. Not just a brother in the, "my fraternity brother" sense and usage of the word, but rather, a brother in this journey called life.

Peace,
the 7th Son of Osiris

Thank you Kevin for both your kind words and thoughts.
As you pointed out, very few if anyone here knows just the who, what, when, where and whys of both the death of Brother Stiles or of Theta Chi's James Echels. In truth, the only ones who do are dead.

Here, all we can do ( IMHO/OPOV ) is think of them, their running mates, their krewe, their Brothers, and their Families and wish them all well.

The only link I will make is really a follow-up to Kevin's comment.
To prefix it, back in the day, my chapter had a drug problem that just about tore the house in two. While the drugs at the time were not of this level, IMHO just a bad. But we as a house got it worked out. There was only one incident that I feel we could and should have have done better with.

That said, any living group, social group, activity group is just a sub-section of society. And we know that there is a National problem with drugs. So the odds are that there will be drugs in GLO's. However we are Brothers and Sisters to each other. We should be watching out for each other because we all have problems and we all can stumble.
Giving a person a hand and getting help as needed is not a bad thing. It is just a shame that all to many times doing that is made out to be the bad thing.

And as posted all to many times here, once something does happen, it gives the chapter, the Greek System, Nationals et al all a black eye.

However one can only wish to some good to came out of this. All to often people see injury and death, in the news, as something foreign. Something that could not happen to anyone that they know or even themselves.
However, once something comes home ( in my case a few car accidents and plane crashes ) one can see it in a far difference light.

One can only hope that in these cases, something good does come out of it.

Off of my soap box.

Well said.

Does this language show any respect?

Does this show respect?

Respect is earned, not forced.

Reality Check1:
As posted above, the people who knew what happened at the SAE and Theta Chi are both dead.
As for SMU, I know nothing about it or Greek System there. I know what I have read on GC about just how "all GLO's" seem to have a drug issue or problem. Is that true? GLO's are just a sub-section or sub-division of society as a whole. And I think we all know too well about societies drug issues.

Long term? Not in our hands at all. Only good thoughts and wishes to those still with us.

And it is FRATERNITY. Or rather, in this case, Chapter.

Welcome to Greek Chat. You picked a rather interesting thread and section to start posting in.
You may wish to take some time reading up and getting the hang of GC.

BTB-just what is your affiliation?

You certainly have a point. But given that "RealityCheck1" has only two posts -- both in this thread and both directed at mac and appearing to draw on or react to more than just what mac has had to say in this thread -- and given the screen name chosen, I'm guessing that RealityCheck1 is a sock puppet who can't even muster enough internet courage to post under his or her regular screen name. Sock puppets aren't due any respect, in my opinion.

Respect push ups have nothing to do with attempting to force respect. They are attempting to remind one of the place they are in and punish for clear disrespect. The pledges learn respect for the members in a much different way.

Too Bad
 

I am not really concerned about any of the comments directed at me. I am not in college, was not involved in Greek Life, and am just disgusted by the whole set of circumstances surrounding this occurrence. Respect is something I give and receive every day from my wife, kids, and family.

I apologize for offending anyone...I just want some answers. If you or anyone in your frat knows the piece of garbage who supplied the drugs to this young man, I think we have an obligation to identify them and burn them at the stake. I am not saying it was anyone at the SAE House, but if it was they should burn in hell. I am not saying the victim isn't blameless. We all make mistakes, you just hope that that one mistake doesn't cost you your life.

I know the players involved in this tragedy and I have never, ever seen grief like this in my life. We all have an obligation to sit back and look at what has occurred here. Greek Life or not. I have scoured these message boards looking for answers. I have seen many references to the SAE House at SMU, doing lots of Coke. Well God Dammit Guys, knock it off. The perception that is out there is that the "spoiled frat guys" are spending Mommy and Daddy's money and are out there doing blow. Change this perception actively...Please

I was crude, ornery, etc. I just don't want this to happen again, period. God Bless You Guys. This is an awful situation. None of us want to bury our children.

Everyone is due respect.

It goes a step beyond, though. That kind of language is not respectful of the others reading this thread -- or society as a whole.

It certainly isn't what I want anyone to think of when they think of a fraternity man who is allegedly a gentleman.

If nothing else, that language is a CLEAR violation of the TOS.

If someone was saying the things to me about one of my sisters that RealityCheck said about one of macallan's brothers, trust me, the things that would come out of my mouth/keyboard would be about 100x worse.

And no, I don't think some asshole who comes on here and posts 2 times and says things like "if you buy a car with your own money I'll listen to you" deserves any respect at all. Then again, your ideas of who deserves respect and/or protection have certainly been proven to differ from mine. :rolleyes: