Tom, this question has already been answered:

"If someone runs into unforeseen financial troubles (i.e. her dad loses his job with no warning or something similar) most sororities will attempt to help her with a payment plan, and some groups will allow her to be on a special status where she has to pay less, or become an alumna earlier. If she becomes an alumna, she can no longer participate in day to day collegiate chapter activities, but she is still a sister. These type of policies are all varied from sorority to sorority."

Are you asking which sororities do this? I think this is a policy issue that is really only relevant to members of each organization and I am sure individual members can find the answer as it applies to them through their organization.

Because fraternities and sororities, unlike a landlord, a college, a member of the marching band, etc. offer lifetime membership.

As people have mentioned, this lifetime membership is contingent on the keeping of promises made at initiation and if a girl specifically betrays the sorority by going against the sorority's ideals and the promises she made in initiation, then stripping her of her membership is totally understandable. I've never been through a ritual, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine that a solemn and serious ceremony requires the initiate to promise that she will pay $400 or whatever a semester for the rest of her time in college. Implicitly, maybe, but I doubt founders had it in mind that girls would be stripped of their letters if they were unable to pay dues.

33girl provided me with an excellent answer. I can understand the difference between a girl who CAN'T pay and a girl who doesn't want to work hard enough to pay. And the differences with how you handle those situations. But given the differences between all of your examples and the nature of GLO's, I don't think it was a very good analogy. My major confusion was with how limited the idea of "lifetime membership" actually is when you get down to brass tacks.

Most organizations have requirements that a member be in good standing, which usually includes following that organization's policies, which usually include paying dues. Those requirements may or may not be spelled out explicitly in the ritual but they are almost always fully explained to the member prior to initiation.

During recruitment at my school, we handed out financial information to each PNM just so it was clear to them that sororities do cost money. It is great that chapters offer payment plans, scholarships, or whatever else to help women pay, but no matter the help, some women will not be able to afford it. It is unfortunate, and a topic no one likes to address during rush, but I wish everyone would be more honest about it because it is very hard for women to have to depledge/turn alumna/give up membership for that reason. I saw it happen a lot on my campus.

It costs money to operate a house and feed everyone, send dues to HQ, host socials and formals, and whatever else the chapter wants to do throughout the year. The only way those things get paid is from member dues. When dues don't get paid, the entire chapter suffers.

i believe that most if not all panhellenics either share the financial information of sorority membership during the recruitment info. session, or each chapter shares the financial requirements at some point during the recruitment process. women joining npc sororities have a very good idea of the costs before they sign their bid card.

Indeed. Our chapters aren't eligible for any awards if even one member's dues are unpaid.

On the plus side, we have several contingency plans for emergency dues situations - loans and grants on both local and international levels. I totally agree with kddani about those who claim poverty yet have the latest Louis Vuitton!

When I was a collegiate advisor, we had a senior who was brought up at EC every month for having outstanding dues. She was already on a payment system for quite some time and gave the same excuse -- "money was tight". Funny how money WASN'T tight everytime I saw her at the bar on the weekends.

It's a shame because she couldn't get alum status when she applied for it in her 5th year.

Yes, I think panhellenics are supposed to supply that info., but I also think on some campuses the information gets taken too lightly. As a Rho Chi, I was told to tell the girls that sororities have scholarships and will work something out with you if you can't afford it, which was actually a little misleading (yeah, there are scholarships, but not for everyone; and there are payment plans, but the money still needs to get paid eventually).

That's what i meant jocelyn. i can't imagine a campus where financial requirments would not be shared during recruitment.

I believe it IS required during NPC Recruitment for each chapter to share their finacial responsibility with PNMs. Some might just kind of graze over it, but I do believe that it's actually required.

How can U take away something that was purchased by the member themselves. I can see if U paid for it. But if it came out of their pockets how can U do that

Dora Depledge...give me your ASA stuff back.

Easy.

Why would you want stuff from a group you're not a part of?

U get it??:rolleyes:

The official items of the organization always belong to the national headquarters because they represent the entity. The person chose to pay to become a member but revokes all rights, responsibilities and ownership when he or she chooses to disaffiliate. This is why we ask for people to return all of those official items (i.e. ritual, pins, membership booklets) to the national headquarters. Many people fail to do so which only makes them look simpleminded.

Paraphernalia purchased by the individual, such as tshirts and license plate covers, are more difficult to recover from the person but many chapters collect them from the person. Some chapters have had to "steal" them back from the person. So what a person paid $20 for a shirt? The letters and symbols always belong to the organization and not the person, which is why members are expected to adhere to certain protocol in displaying every item they purchase.

For some reason, many people want to denounce an organization but still want to be able to own a piece of the organization and claim the organization when they feel like it--usually to fit in with a certain crowd or say something negative. They have no real love or respect for the entity and sometimes want to do stupid stuff to disrespect the entity (i.e. sell certain items on ebay or give a nonmember symbols to wear).

I understand returning ritual or membersip booklets, membership ID cards but it just seemed crazy to take away tee-shirts, jackets hats etc.

Would you still wear the items if you deactivated?

If yes: Then WTH did you deactivate? If you still want to be a member (and it was your decision to deactivate), be a member or loose the privilidges. If you were forced to deactivate, then your National has expressed that they belive you are not worthy to wear the letters.

If no: Then WTH keep the stuff if you're not going to wear it? (And no, selling it on eBay is not a good answer either).

Not if you really read my entire post.

Do you sign something where it is explicity written and in terms upholdable to contract law, that you must return your pin? I have always wondered the actual legality of this. No Fraternity is going to send legal action against you in the real world. A lot of this is playing on fear and inexperience.

As for other personal items purchased by or for a member who has resigned, these are property of the owner, not the Fraternity. The excuse of "what does she need them for" does not hold any water. You cannot go around demanding things from people, regardless of your intentions. It is tantamount to harassment. And what if they don't comply? Do you continue to ask, demand, maybe escalate this? Give me back that pencil! Selling them or giving them away, no matter how much you don't like it, is up to the owner.

We've bought big items back from the owner (like jackets) but for the most part, they are more than happy to get sweatshirts and other letter items out of their sight and give them back. Someone who's self-terming (like for $$ issues) would probably just give them to their little. It's as much of a drama as they wish to make it.

Sorry, but if you bought 8000 letter sweatshirts and didn't have the respect for your sisters to the point that you indulged you in actions that got you terminated, it's your own fault. Nobody would be asking you for things back if you would have upheld your end of the bargain.

Not only that, when people depledge, often their letter sweatshirts, tote bags, etc were NOT purchased by the pledge - they were purchased by the pledge's big or by the chapter on bid day. No one is going to go after someone for using a lettered pencil - to imply they would is ridiculous.

And before you say "I would never do that", you need to have the experience of someone who has been terminated for truly heinous acts walking around your campus sporting your letters and still representing herself as an XYZ. Until that happens to you, you have no idea.

I think you can *ask* for the items back but you probably don't have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to things like sweatshirts and whatnot-

Many organizations DO have it in their bylaws or articles of incorporation (check yours to find out) that the badge belongs to HQ or can only be worn by members. On those grounds, the national organization may request such items be returned.

Sometimes the reasons behind resigning membership are not so cut and dried. A friend's daughter pledged a GLO as a soph. (she had rushed at another college and didn't pledge and then transferred to the 2nd college and pledged). She is a 5th-year senior and wanted to take alum status. They wouldn't let her because she hadn't been a member for 4 years and was still in school. She was basically forced into the resignation, not because she was "unworthy" but because of financial reasons. Her mom had bought her badge off eBay, so her mom said the badge belongs to her (the mom). She will probably resell it.

Some organizations document that formally disaffiliated members are to return all official items. When people initially "sign-up" for membership they are agreeing to various terms of membership, whether they choose to read and be informed of those terms or not.

Yes, the items that were purchased by the person are the person's property. But the symbols on those items are not, so different organizations have different policies on how to handle that.

This is the Rose McGill Fund, founded by the Kappa Kappa Gamma Foundation, which helps any member (active or alumna) in times of financial need. I love reading the Rose Recipient letters in the Key or hearing them, they always make me tear up!!

Please for the love of all things holy, can we not get on the whole who owns the badge argument? kthx.

So you are free to ask. But they can say no way. I'm selling that leather jacket on Ebay. Sure, the pencil example is silly, but where do you draw the line? The keychain? The license tag frame? The hoodies? The tote bags?

They may not want something someone gave them, but if they spent money on it, they might not be so willing to hand it over just because you ask. Then what?

Then I would rather buy it off them than have it be on ebay, or on their non-sister person. Although I really question how much a used keychain or license plate frame would bring on Ebay.

And like DSTChaos said...if it's in your agreement...you are SOL and possessing material that is no longer yours and have to hand it over. Period. It's like getting your car repossessed.

I don't know for sure HOW you would do it
 

If you had someone that you had forced out of your group because of something standards based, it would break your heart to see them around publicly wearing your letters. I don't know how you would get all the clothing back, but if you could, it would be worth it.

Most sane people wouldn't want to wear the letters of a group that kicked them out, but if they had good judgement, they wouldn't have gotten kicked out.

I think it is important to note yet again that some (many?) groups have hardship alum status.

How interesting! This is the first I've heard of hardship alum status.

How would both of you feel about a former sister keeping a lettered shirt for personal memorabilia reasons? Not to wear, but to have as a keepsake of her time in the sorority. Even though for whatever reason she left or was forced to leave and even if her attitude has changed, at one time the sorority was probably very important and dear to her. Is there harm in allowing her to keep one shirt as a memento, a reminder of that time?

That is precisely why I let my sister-daughter keep her stuff even after she de-pledged.

i wouldn't mind if she kept a shirt, as long as she did not wear it while still in college.

Keeping anything XZY-related is dumb if you are going to disaffiliate.

Totaly agree!

What would it mean to them anyway other than to stir up drama?

I do not know how may GLOs do have Hardship status for going Alum.

I am sure it has to be reviewed by each GLO and it does happen.

But while some are not happy with this, remember, there may be a time when each of us can run into a situation like this.

If they are deemed to be under Alum status, then they can wear Letters, Badges and not be able to participate in any functions.

Question?

If a member happens to get pregnant?

Is she forced to drop out of Active Chapter but continues in school and what is her status?

Why would she be forced to drop out of Active Chapter?

Some NPC sororities (not mine) require that women who either get pregnant or married as undergrads take alumna status. This topic has been talked about alot on GC actually.

If a member marries or becomes pregnant while still a collegian, she has the option of taking alumna status. We've never required a member to go alum, which usually becomes the case, though.

Which NPCs have that requirement, do you know?

I think many did, about 20-30 years ago. I know of one ADPi alumna who has told me about a closed door session involving a pinned junior and the advisors with lots of tears. The junior moved out in the middle of the night, and there was the rumor that she was pregnant.

My own pledge book didn't allow married PNMs or secret marriages, but it's okay now (the married PNMs, I don't know about the secret marriages).

How about single mothers?
 

removed by Alphagamuga because it served no good purpose

What's a secret marriage?