For one sorority, yes. And this is coming from an IO's mouth.

While I don't know the reasons of the other sororities, the info just shouldn't be here because it's not official HQ content. A lot of people think that the PNAM should go through the proper channels at HQ rather than risk getting incorrect and unofficial information here.

In light of what AI's turned into in recent years, out of curiosity, does ANY HQ website still have public information regarding AI on their website?

I don't know
 

I don't know enough about different group policies about AI to say. I assume that members of those groups would know, and they would act accordingly.

Just as it seems rare in the rush forums for people to talk about how their groups do membership selection, I would think it would be rare for members to talk about the particulars of AI membership selection on Greek Chat.

It doesn't seem to me that Greek Chat is about information that is only available on Greek Chat. Nor does it seem to me that it's about trying to get super secret insider information. It seems to me that people look for advice and support from people who know more about the process than they do.

The only reason why I wouldn't expect to see AI forums on Greek Chat is that it seems relatively rare. But if people want to ask, and others want to answer, and their national policies don't prohibit answers, what's the problem?

Would you really want that to be the Greek Chat standard?
 

It's surprising to me that folks seem to be making the case that if it's not on the National website it shouldn't be on Greek Chat. Is that the policy you want to see generally in place here?

(I don't think we ought to be advising people to do stuff in CONFLICT with national policy, but the standard of only discuss what's on the website is going to be really boring.)

I think it's safe to say that if you only find it on the "Members Only" portion of the web site, that it shouldn't be shared with non-members.

Some (well, mine, anyway) groups announce new AIs in their quarterly newsletters/magazines. The newsletter/magazine isn't part of ritual and many groups have it available online for just about anyone to read. This means that anyone can potentially find out about AI. And if a PNAM is interested, she might just contact the group herself. Different people find their groups differently. While I don't agree with helping people via the Internet if we aren't ever going to meet them, I don't think people should be criticized because they CONTACTED a group on their own rather than have been APPROACHED.

I know that it has already been stated, but I just want to again emphasize that this is why the D9 mods close / delete any post concerning the membership process, whether it is on the undergrad or grad (alumni) level.

This is one of many reasons why I love the D9 mods.

Again, I am a NPC outsider, but here is how I've been reading this issue.

I think someone stated in this thread, or another one of the current AI threads that AI info should only be discussed, if at all, in that specific GLO's forum. I think part of the confusion here is that with so many groups who have different AI processes, it is hard to lump answers / issues into one general forum. While it may be perfectly acceptable for your group, for example, to have a PNAM contact the org on her own, that same act might be considered a big no-no for another group. I think what some are saying is that you can not give out general information since at the AI level it is very org specific on how to go about joining.

I think a lot of NPC ladies on here want to discourage a situation like this: 'Oh yeah, just give ABC a call and if they don't get back to you, then just keep calling down the NPC list. You'll get in somewhere.' I think this is the 'smoke blowing' people are referring to.

And, of the groups who wouldn't mind having the information on GC, who here is qualified to speak for them?

When it comes to what our groups do and don't do HELL YES policy should NOT be on Greekchat. It is no one else's business but the women in THAT group.

If it's not something that my IH supports, I certainly don't want it showing up on an internet chat board (and I'm SURE they don't) saying the contrary.

Why would you EVER think that something not on your IH's website should be advertised on a chat board?

For real. My organization doesn't have anything about AI on the public website. It is beyond me why there should be anything about it on GC -- and there is. Why?

Do You have any AI members on GC? That may be why?

well,
 

THINK for a minute about EVERYTHING that's not on your National webpage that you're probably discussed here, and then get back to me.

I'm not advocating posting secret information; I'm pointing out that there are many things that people want to discuss that aren't on the IHQ website. Rush dates, quota at different chapters, living arrangements at different campuses, etc.

To assume that because something isn't on the website, it's secret or ritual is a faulty assumption.

Again, I'm not asking people to go against their national policies: I'm just saying A) that because your group doesn't like it doesn't mean that everyone is obligated to ignore the issue and B) that holding out "only what's on the IHQ website" as the standard of what can be discussed on GreekChat is going to be pretty problematic.

While that may be true, but what is the ture interpretation as it were?:confused:

It amazes Me how may profess that they do not AI, but there are people on GC who have had AIed with many Sororitys.

Some who have are now renouncing said AI! :o

But, it is a fact of life isn't it?

No one is demeaning the value of AI membership. But we don't want to ADVERTISE it. If someone is going to be an AI, the majority of our sororities prefer that we approach the prospective member, rather than the other way around.

The existence of an AI Forum gives the impression that AI is active alumnae recruitment and similiar to collegiate recruitment. It is not and we don't want it advertised. It's a very simple concept: We don't want an AI Forum on GC and we don't want to discuss pre-AI processes on GC. We welcome AI sisters as our members in full and celebrate their membership.

That's it. AI is not recruitment and we don't want to discuss AI journeys on GC. The existence of an AI Forum gives the impression AI is common practice and it is creating awareness of it to the extent that prospects are contacting sorority HQ's and alumnae. Most of our organizations don't want this kind of contact at this time. If in the future it is determined that we are opening up the alumnae component of membership to a new type of programming, this perception could certainly change.

For now, we ask that our collective wishes be respected, that this forum be disbanded and that anyone interested in AI conduct her search and chronicle her progress discreetly.

Ai is not a fact of life.

How is that relevant?

I have yet to see any AIs of my organization advocating in favor of providing any AI information about us here on GC.

How is any of THAT policy? Had you read what I wrote you would know I was referring only to policy.

You go ahead and discuss Alpha Gam policy then and we'll see how long you last before someone a whole lot higher than you comments about it.

Sure
 

You may have noted that you didn't want policy revealed, but if you go back and read what I actually wrote, which you quoted in your first response, I didn't refer to group policy being posted. Instead, my use of "policy" refers what some people wanted to guide the practices of GreekChat. You may be the one who misunderstood how policy was being used.


To tell you the truth, I'm not up on Alpha Gam AI. The limited info. that I can find is in an old issue of The Quarterly that any member of the public who goes to the Alpha Gam website can see. If anyone asked for info, there's little danger that I'd give away any secrets. There's very little chance I'd say anything at all.

I do think it's interesting and worthy of comment that some of the folks complaining about threads and posts getting deleted are advocating the deletion of an entire forum. I feel confident that Greek Chat moderators would deleted any posts that contained information that any IHQ folks felt was secret.

Another perspective on this debate
 

Although my GLO explicitly welcomes alumnae members of local sororities who affiliate with us, we don’t have an AI process in the way many of the PHC sororities do. (In fact, I had never even heard the term before I stumbled across the AI subforum on GC.) When we occasionally come across a very special person who has contributed a great deal to the sorority, the best we can do is make them an honorary member. But that doesn’t give them full membership privileges like voting rights, etc.

After reading through some of the early AI threads I started thinking about whether an AI process might be needed in OPhiA. I have been so impressed by some of the successful AIs on GC! And when I see other PHC members refer glowingly to some AI sisters that they know personally in their alumnae chapters, it makes me think about those honorary members we have recognized in the past with a ‘what if?...’ kind of wistfulness. They would have made wonderful sisters!

IMO, a thoughtful, carefully implemented AI program can be a great asset to any sorority. It’s one that my GLO may decide to adopt. It saddens me to think that sharing basic information about the process has caused a problem for the PHC sororities that welcome AI members.
:(

AGREED.

Put it this way, AI info isn't even on the Sisters Only side. It's not on the web, period. It can, however, be found in the Membership Handbook.

You're right, which is about the only handbook not available on the Sisters Only side of the web site, for good reason. That, along with Ritual information, are too sensitive for even the Sisters Only side of the web site.

Well,
 

Except for The Quartly article which explains that AI exists and outlines who is eligible which on the general site and is available to everyone, you're right.

The fact that even that general information is not on the website -- you have to dig through the Quarterly archives for it -- convinces me enough that it's something that JUST SHOULDN'T BE DISCUSSED ONLINE.

That Quarterly article was written for the sisters, not for AI hopefuls. Can you imagine a PNAM coming up to a member, article in hand, saying, "according to this, I'm eligible for AI...sponsor me!" ?

Whoops
 

Well, you'd have to dig through, except for the link on the GreekChat Alpha Gamma Delta forum titled Alumnae Initiation with the reference to the issue. But it's on the public IHQ website, so I guess it's cool. (It's also the first thing returned in a Google search for Alpha Gamma Delta and Alumnae initiation. Yes, as a matter of fact, I am a complete nerd.)

It's because I find people approaching with article in hand so hard to imagine that I don't think it's likely to happen.

But I haven't been around here to see what you've seen.

(Really, if I were approached about joining a group, I probably would do my own online research into the group because I'm a nerd like that. It seems like an AI subforum could be used for good reasons too.)

It's already been said 89654324 times, but I agree w/ adpiucf & kdonline :)

That's how SK is. Info is nowhere on the website nor is it on the Sisters Only section. It's in the membership handbook. Membership handbooks are NOT something that every sister has either. Only the VPM has it during her time as VPM.

You answered your own question.

If an 18 year old asks you about rushing, whether it's a specific chapter or not, you can tell her to go through formal rush or COB. Because you pretty much know that every single collegiate chapter of every single NPC group recruits and bids collegians in some manner.

If a 35 year old asks you how to AI- you don't have a CLUE what any sorority other than AGD does as far as AI is concerned.

I am an AI member, so I have mixed feelings about the issue of posting info on GC. When I started out, the info here was rather brief and there weren't too many of us PNAMs. What info was there was informative without being too revealing. PMs to individual members of GLOs were encouraged, rather than putting all the stuff out in the open.

It was helpful the way it was. Somewhere along the line, it got out of hand. Now it's gotten to be a hot mess. I am sorry about that, because the facts I got from individual members were honest and helpful.

I'm with you, tinydancer. When I first inquired about the possibility of AI, the issue was fairly quiet. There were a handful of success stories on GC. There was some general information posted, but most of what I learned was from Private Messages from two alumnae, one from the organization that I was looking into and one woman who was just generally supportive and wanted to point me in the right direction. Now, when I've finally found my home, this place feels like a disaster zone:( I'm sorry that it has come to this. The average one-time-only lurker would look at this board and think that all AIs were a bunch of pathetic dreamers who can't grow up. I'm not even sure how that came to be, but as someone who has benefited greatly from this sub-forum, even I can see that this board might be more trouble than it is worth.

Just to speak for myself, I'm quite grown-up, thank you. In fact, my years of schooling and life in general (although I'm still young) have taught me enough to make me feel that I can make a difference in the lives of college women...that I can teach them to be proud and gracious and determined. And that is exactly why I am a soon-to-be-AI.

Is this alum. initiate thing very big at big Southern schools? I have to think most of the sorority girls I know would think it was really odd for an older, graduated, working woman to want to get initiated/join a sorority.

Macallan, they would not be joining the collegiate chapter (I think we all agree: that would be weird.) And the way it usually actually works, despite what GC may tell you, is that there is a wonderful woman who has a daughter or a mother or a sister who is a member, and who has given a lot to her community as a professional or volunteer, and who the sorority's alums think, "wow, she would make a great XYZ" and they approach her. It's not usually something for women who missed their chance to join in college and have been dreaming of nothing else ever since- it's for women who have fulfilling lives and something to offer.

You are correct that a lot of people think it is weird.

When I was a NM, I knew about AI because it said that we did AI in my Frat Ed manual. I also knew about it because my chapter AI-ed women from my community when the chapter was installed.

However, after reading up on different chapters/orgs here, I know that not all people are aware that their GLO even did AI (if they even do). I don't know if the other NPCs has even addressed the issue to their members, but the Quarterly article Alphagamuga mentioned earlier pretty much explained to the Fraternity that a) yes, we have AI; and b) many AIs have gone on to do marvelous things for the Fraternity, even hold the office of International President.

AOII did a very nice article a few years ago too. I also agree that many of our AIs have gone on to do good work for the Fraternity. Like AGD, AOII has had an AI become International President.

I think that an AI can bring great value to an alumnae chapter. If a women has a close tie to the chapter and is around pretty much anyway for open events, why not invite her to join if she meets or exceeds the qualifications? AIs that have joined my AC were not looking to relive college days. That's not what our AC is about. We concentrate on our roles as active alumnae and being about AOII's business and developing freindships.

Currently, we have AIs of Alabama, Southeastern La., and one soon-to-be of Ole Miss.

Quoting because it's so TRUE! :)

Expanding on this, I think it's interesting the lack of knowledge that us fraternity guys have on the subject. I had only heard of it in Kappa Sig for VERY specific circumstances: for example, a close relative (grandson I believe) of one of the fraternity's most important members was initiated as an alum. He had given a lot of time and money to the fraternity to that point. I can think of a couple other examples of people who gave an immense amount of their time to the fraternity in other capacities who were initiated.

I still can't completely wrap my head around the reasons for doing it, on either side of the coin, but I'll defer to think it should be left off the board (because of membership discussions, etc.).

Did I give the impression otherwise?
 

Right, I've mentioned before that I don't think I would respond to questions about AI. (I could, however, let her know that it exists for my group.) I'm not advocating random people speculate about AI for other groups, nor have I said anything in this thread that would indicate that I thought that was a good idea.

I just don't think having a sub-forum about the topic is harmful, and I think it's a little hypocritical for some folks who speak pretty freely on a variety of topics to want to shut down other people's conversations.

If you can point out cases where confidential policies were revealed, the moderators would take them down, I believe. If you think a crazy person is trying to get info about AIing your group, you can contact your IHQ and alert them. But taking away a sub-forum because you don't like the threads is lame.