It seems a little formal for college aged conversation.... Plus, it sounds like a polite way to say "I'm not interested".

Something like "That would be so fun! But isn't it against the rules? I don't want to get you guys in trouble..." That way it looks like she's looking out for them.

Once the sorority members realize that she knows it's against the rules and questioned them about it, I bet they would back off (if they're smart they would).

True. The tone of the reply should "fit" the tone of the invitation.

The issue is how to be polite and interested, yet decline the invite. All the while avoiding opening up the conversation as to "why" she won't accept the bid. If she says, "That is totally cool. But isn't that against the rules?" might not get her a bid during formal rush. So perhaps something like "Thanks, that sounds like fun. Unfortunately, I can't make it." Or "Wow. That is so something I would love to do. But I can't make it Friday. Maybe sometime later." (Or what ever vernacular the kids are using these days.)

I agree. This is an excellent way to reply.

ok that is being wayyy too superficial and image concious... not to mention a bit psycho. If i rushed at a house where the girls all dressed exactly the same, and I'd guess LOOKED the same, I think i would have run out screaming.

LMAO.... Kermit... hah hah hah

Buttonz, volunteers don't grow on trees. You usually have to take what you can get.

Gee it's just for rush! And everybody wearing the same thing is WAY less stressful than choosing an outfit and going through dress check or "Charm Board" or whatever your chapter calls it and being told the outfit won't work, or the pink is the wrong shade, or the shoes are too worn out. WAY back in the day...this was like 1972...we decided to all wear different outfits for rush to show that we were individuals. Turns out everybody hated it. It was too hard to tell who the sorority member was and who the rushees were.

I hate dirty rushing. I heard MANY times girls drop out because XYZ promised them they'd be in their sorority and they got cut by them after Round 2. My favorite was hearing girls come back later and tell us, "I really liked your chapter and would've joined but ABC (the group they joined) told me you guys were getting kicked off campus." :mad:

This reminds me of my school. When I was at Arkansas State, our Kappa Delta and Zeta Tau Alpha chapters were both struggling with numbers. One chapter on campus kept telling pnms that both of the chapters were going to close. Unfortunately that has happened. But, guess who is the struggling chapter now? That's right: the chapter that kept spreading rumors about KD and ZTA.

I figured I'd bump this because my question is about dirty rushing.
So...
Is it considered un-Panhellenic to advertise sorority events that won't take place until the school year, now in July, when no other group/organization is even on campus? Is this considered dirty rushing or just...bending the rules a bit? I understand wanting to get out your sorority but, when no one but potential rushee's are on campus? :rolleyes:

Here's my question, when is is considered 'dirty'? What have y'all done with this kind of situation? I just don't know if it's really an offense.

I'd say just ask your campus Panhellenic, since they all have different rules regarding what is "dirty rushing" and what isn't.

That's kind of interesting. VioletPretty is right that your CPC will know for sure, but it sounds like it could either be a good PR move to get the word out about your group to PNMs (if for example, it was a philanthropic event you were advertising) or it could be in really bad taste if it made all GLO look like wild partiers or something.

If it's allowed, all the groups will just need to do it next year.

I can't see why it would be against the rules to advertise an event that won't be held for several months... but the question is, is your target audience even on campus right now and will your time and effort be wasted? Definitely check with the campus Panhellenic.

But common sense suggests that you aren't holding any events during the silence period, and you should be allowed to generally promote your organization to the campus-at-large 365 days a year.

Oh and as a follow up to my original post, our PNM happily pledged her first choice (ZTA) at Baylor and is loving her sorority and university! :)

I'm guessing that their target audience (freshmen) is on campus right now, for orientation.

It's actually a good idea, but it would be better to promote Panhel in general rather than one sorority doing it individually. But hey, if they thought of it first....

I guess it depends on what and how you are advertising.

The sororities at my school used to put up home-made banners during the summer orientation that would say things like, "ADPi welcomes you to UCF!" and "Tri-Delta <3's UCF" or even "Sorority Recruitment Forum: UCF Arena 8/24 @ 3 PM" outside of our houses or around campus. I don't see how that could be construed as dirty rushing.

ETA... I even think a direct mail piece shouldn't be considered dirty either, if its purpose was to invite you to a future event. But if the message's purpose is to acquaint a non-affiliated woman with your sorority during the silence period, I think that would be considered not only unusual, but also a bit suspect. So I think if it's a simple "You're invited to a tea at XYZ! DATE/TIME, etc.," then that should be fine. I wouldn't suggest an RSVP mechanism until after silence has ended. And I woudn't suggest any literature about XYZ sorority being distributed directly to a PNM by XYZ sorority-- the campus Panhellenic is doing this with their recruitment materials, anyway.

You can, however, sneak your web URL onto any advertisments-- your web site would include all kinds of info about the organization and recruitment, etc.

And I agree, if you thought of it first, and it's a general public announcement in the school paper, a banner, etc., go for it... as long as you're not breaking any personal contact rules for the purpose of acquainting non-affiliated with your sorority, there should be no problem. But as a show of good faith, it doesn't hurt to loop in your chapter adviser and the campus Greek adviser before you act.

Thanks!
That was my question, if it was considered dirty which we didn't know since all the pnm's are on campus right now. Being that the sign essentially says "XYZ (this is our event three months from now in tiny letters). Props to them for doing it first, but I think someone already told panhel and more signs have gone up.

Okay so the whole dirty rush thing I'm unsure about since I went through an informal rush. But I'm so confused... here's my situation...

My cousin & I are really close & he's coming to my University in the fall. He has a new girlfriend & I've been spending a lot of time with her. She introduced me to some of her friends who will also be coming to my school, all super cute girls. A few of them were at a family party with my cousin & I had some of my sisters visiting at the time. They asked about the school & sororities in general. Now they are really interesting in rushing in the fall.

One of my friends at a different school said that they would consider that dirty rushing since it would be suspected that we convinced these girls to go through rush.

Personally I think it's BS. Who's to say that they actually will go through with rush, or that they will choose to rush my sorority. There were no gifts given or antying & everything was just by a matter of chance. These girls are now friends, so am I supposed to cut myself off from them for giving them a biase. I don't think that's fair at all.

[whining]

I understand the need to take precautions against dirty rushing, but dang! It really sucks not being able to talk to your friends or hang-out during the last free month before school starts. I was totally looking forward to a few more girls nights before recruitment started to relax. Not that we'd talk about recruitment or anything related, but all girls know that being around a group of friends when you're a bundle of nerves is completely therapuetic ;)

Can't imagine what gamma chi's have to go through!

[/whining]

In my opinion, you have suceeded on the whole point of recruitment... Congratulations, you have made these women your friends!

New women on campus are supposed to have the opportunity to observe Greek Life and get to know women in the organizations. I really do feel like a lot of schools are taking silence a bit far when sorority women are not allowed to even talk to freshmen before recruitment starts (it shouldn't be about their sorority-- that's dirty recruitment-- but get to know them on a personal basis like you would a friend). It just gives sorority women the image of being stuck-up and clique-y when they aren't allowed to have contact. Unless its a school where enough women come in knowing a lot about Greek Life and see past the silence it's going to confuse the heck out of them when no sorority woman will be seen with them and probably turns off a lot of wonderful potential members.

It depends on your campus rules what you really can or can't do..... but if you really aren't allowed to even talk to freshman about non-sorority/Greek Life stuff before recruitment you should really try to get that changed with your Panhellenic! It defeats the whole purpose of recruitment!!!

In continuation of the whining....

I am SO TIRED of everything that I do or say being considered dirty rushing!! Ahhh it's so frustrating! Especially on these forums or on facebook- it's terrible when a PNM (who is also an acquaintance) writes on my wall and I can't write back. :( Worst of all- my school considers ANY WOMAN who is not affiliated with a GLO a PNM... so people that hate greeks, people that are seniors, people that have NO interest in rushing are considered PNMs. **screams**

The worst part about it for me is when I see 1) girls discussing what chapters they are going to rush... seeing as you HAVE to rush all 10... and 2) girls freaking out because they are a sophomore/junior or they want recruitment advice specific to my U and I can't reply.

I've already gotten in trouble once this summer when I encouraged some girls to not worry and come with an open mind to recruitment... dirty rushing?

I understand what dirty rushing is supposed to prevent, but it's getting to the point that another sorority on our campus may post something on GC like, "Hey guys!! I need advice about rush at our U! Can you help?" and if someone responds with advice, especially if they have their chapter name in their siggy-- *boom* dirty rushing, infractions, etc.

...end rant/whining

This is in no way dirty rushing. Dirty rushing is talking up your sorority as the only one that a PNM should consider, promising bids or gift-giving during silence. You did none of these things. You did the Panhellenic thing and talked up sorority life, and now there are more PNMs registered for recruitment. You have benefitted your Greek System.

Your friend has no idea what she is talking about.

It depends on the school and their silence rules, I'd imagine. At my school, silence was all summer long, but you were allowed to have "non-sorority" contact with PNMs and sorority women as long as no dirty-rush type incidents occurred. And trust me, people were watching to report sororities for infractions, so everyone would mind her p's and q's.

When the clock struck midnight for the start of strict silence, there was zero contact, period, outside of recruitment events. Of course, if you were someone's roommate, some things just can't be avoided.

Faith, UCF is uber strict. I was on campus in the days before wide-spread internet use, but trust me when I say that I encountered similiar issues as an ADPi sister, and later as a Rho Chi... (and I was called a Rho Chi and not a "Rho Gam"). I have some very funny stories about our Pan Exec and summer disaffiliation. Just remember that it's temporary and also remember that PROMOTING SORORITY RECRUITMENT AND THE BENEFITS OF MEMBERSHIP IN "A" SORORITY ARE NOT DIRTY RUSHING, IT IS PUBLIC RELATIONS!!! Solely promoting the benefits of your sorority outside of a recruitment event is dirty, and that is common sense. If anyone calls you an infraction, and you consider it unfair, you should contest it.

These schools are absolutely going overboard with the "dirty rushing" and "silence" crap. And what makes me mad is I think it's just the sororities trying to get each other in trouble. Damn, get a life. Do you really have nothing better to do than troll facebook/myspace/GC and look for infractions? Maybe you should concentrate on trying to improve your own chapter.

When I was in undergrad, I worked at a bookstore on campus where a lot of girls came for orientation. Pretty much every girl who worked there was Greek and supervisors were also Greek. They always reminded us that we could wear t-shirts with our letters on them, we could ask if girls/guys were rushing (and of course follow it up with "and you'll need these soffees for a relaxing night after round one!"), and we could encourage them to rush, but we could not go any further than that. It was almost like we had a mini-Panhellenic there, encouraging everyone to go Greek!

Of course, when one of our own (the one non-Greek girl) decided to rush, it suddenly became a lot harder because we HAD to see her and talk to her every day without going beyond the above. It was also tough for her to understand why we couldn't talk about certain things. But in the end, I think it helped her make the best choice for her... which was a completely different house from the rest of us!

I do think some campuses go a little overboard in trying to catch each other, but the "no dirty rush" rule works so well when, as in the case above, everyone sticks to it. I mean, I could have pushed and pushed her to go DG, but she wouldn't have found her true home there.

So this is my question--how can a chapter combat this kind of crap? Honestly, the dinners, signs, and everything else seem pretty "clean" compared to the smear campaign some chapters wage against others. So what do the other chapters do, then?

My senior semester they changed the rules to cut back our silence a LOT. It was wonderful and we loved it. AND there wasn't an increase in the dirty rushing because of it. (That still happened by a few specific chapters/members, but it didn't change)

Well... part of the dirty rushing rule is that we can't communicate with any PNMs with the exception of brief salutations. Here's an excerpt from one of the e-mails our VP Membership/Recruitment sent to us:


IMPORTANT !!
As a reminder, disaffilation (June 25-Bid Day) means that:

1. From the start of Summer B onward, communication between any member or alumna of a sorority and any PNM (any female student at UCF) must be limited to brief normal greetings. Please be careful of this, especially if you are friends with any PNMs! We get fined $100 for each time someone is caught associating with PNMs.

2. Girls who are rho gammas, recruitment exec, or pan exec and are disaffiliated from our chapter cannot be seen with members wearing letters or in cars with letters, or at any event where their affiliation could become known.

If you have any questions about Panhellenic rules or infractions, please contact me. :)

Yeah, but people do it anyway. Panhellenic isn't in your apartment with you 24/7, and you can't be completely anti-social if your non-sorority random roommate has friends over.
Just don't go out of your way to break the rules, but it's ok to be a nice person. UCF turns into the Rush Gestapo at this time of year, and I understand your feelings.

Also, Recruitment Counselors love receiving "We Miss You" cards and gifts during recruitment week. Don't forget about them!!!!!

I find it interesting they include alumnae, how can they possibly control and police people who are not their students.

They can't fine chapter for something an alum has done. That's an empty threat. But there are a good number of women who go alumna early (they find a loophole or end up taking longer than 4 years to graduate) or stay at UCF to do a master's program, so they're still up in everybody's business. It's a way for them to scare off those recent alums from causing trouble.

I think recent alums are the worst thing about sorority recruitment. They still think of it as "my chapter" and can't let go that they don't have any authority or say in what happens in the chapter anymore. And they involve themselves or create chapter drama because the sorority is still the most important thing in their lives.

I think the best thing you can do for a graduating senior is to invite her to an alumna event and sit her down for a firm yet gentle speech that communicates, "Your work has been appreciated, but your work here is done. Let's talk about your future as an alumna of XYZ..."

It seems like most of the "dirty rushing" incidents being discussed has to do with current collegiate members talking to PNMs *at their school*.

Is it "dirty rushing" to promote one's sorority (for lack of a better phrase) at a national level? For example, say Molly Member is an ABC at a Midwestern university . Molly's friend will be attending a Southern college where there is also an ABC chapter. Molly, along with her chapter sisters, have promoted ABC to Molly's friend - both directly and indirectly - over the year(s).

You cannot get a rush infraction for talking to a PNM from a different school.

I know nothing official, but my initial response would be that it depends on what year the PNM is. If the PNM is a sophomore or higher, doing deferred recruitment... i.e., already enrolled at a different school, then no I don't think promoting your chapter would be considered dirty rushing. However, if the PNM is a freshman and not technically enrolled in any school yet... then in might be considered dirty rushing.

Please don't let this into any sorority girl's head though- we already have enough trouble at my U with agents :( We don't need nearby schools/chapters teaming up and "not-dirty-rushing" each other's PNMs.

Really?

How would they punish you? They can't hold your chapter at that school liable. That would be ridiculous. And the PHC on your campus isn't going to care.

ETA: It's kind of futile anyway. Your chapter may be absolutely nothing like the chapter on the other campus, and being that you have no power over the other chapter's MS, it wouldn't make any difference. You could talk up XYZ because your chapter is struggling, and the chapter that PNM meets is the top chapter and she doesn't even have a chance.

Oh, I agree it could not be enforced, but you can get an "infraction" for just about anything! I'm sure it's happened somewhere, sometime!

It's just like a lawsuit can be filed for any ol thing, but WINNING a case is another thing.

What if everything Molly said to her friend would be a rush infraction if she was on that campus. Is she protected simply because she is an ABC at a different college?

And for sake of discussion, change the Midwest/Southern scenario to chapters within a very small radius (less than 50 miles). As such, students at each college have a good idea what it going on at the other college.

If there was a way to monitor recruitment infractions between two or more campuses, then we wouldn't be able to use GC before and during recruitment season.

Again, how would they punish the offender? It's not fair to take it out on the other chapter, and it has no direct affect on the person who's gabbing's rush.