So you don't like people from the Channel Islands? Why not? They have charming British accents. :p

I am also from your area. I decided to go to the University of Florida because it has one of the best broadcast journalism programs in the country. And.. you can't beat the weather! ;)

When I went through rush, I found most of the sororities were completely open to women from anywhere. There were only two out of all of them at the time which looked for southerners.. one was comprised of very "deep south" women (ala "The Southern Belle Primer") and another sorority that seemed to take in only women from in-state. I checked that chapter's website out of curiosity not too long ago for the members and their hometowns, and sure enough.. they're still all from Florida.

It wasn't until I moved to Florida that I realized for the first time that some people haven't gotten word yet that the civil war is over. :D

Hey, now! I still have seven years left to brainwash, er, I mean discuss the matter with, her :D

Have you really been out of college for three years???? It doesn't seem that long ago that you were colonizing your chapter!

Yes, this is so true. At the high school I taught @ in Miami, probably 90% of the students in the IB program went to UF, rather than going out of state, because of the free tuition from the Bright Futures scholarships, etc...

I was shocked when one of my students turned down Harvard to go to UF for free. Personally, I'd WANT my kid to choose Harvard over UF - and I'm a die-hard Gator - I will gladly take out loans (if I have to) to pay for an Ivy League education.

Here is a link to an article regarding the issue of whether some state universities are admitting too many out of state students, while excluding students from the home state.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...es-cover_x.htm

Kdonline, I definitely agree with your opinion. An education from a top LAC or research university is well worth the cost.

While I understand your point about the top notch Ivy League schools, I have to disagree. Ok, maybe not completely disagree but I'd certainly have to think long and hard about it.

Free education at a highly respected in state school vs. $42,500+ per year for out of state at Harvard (tuition, room & board, books and supplies cost listed at http://www.collegetoolkit.com/Colleg...d/166027.aspx). Of course that's without any financial assistance that may be available and accumulated savings which would have to be factored in to the decision.

I don't know what my Hubby, my son and I would decide if we were in this situation. I don't want to see my son saddled with massive loan payments for the rest of his life. Nor do I want to jeopardize my Hubby's and my future by taking on massive debt as we near retirement age. We're not planning on retiring in luxury. We simply don't want to end up in the poorhouse and have to rely on our son to take care of us financially either.

We have many students from Northern Virginia heading South for college. Many spend a semester or two away, build up their GPA. then transfer into schools like the University of Virginia or William & Mary. Coming from high schools in Northern Virginia, we actually have a set a quota for students from Fairfax, Loudon, Prince William and Fauqier counties in relation to the remainder of the Commonwealth.

My daughter had decent SAT scores, grades, extracurriculars, etc., but chose to apply only at the University of Alabama after being on campus four hours! No University of Virginia, Virginia Tech, Williams & Mary, or George Mason University for her - with all due respect to those fine schools. She felt a university from the Deep South with its lure of a traditional Greek system, great football history and tradition, architecture, Southern people, among other reasons, was for her.

Fairfax High School sent nine students to Bama last year, although I believe three went this year. We personally know several students the past few years who went to Auburn And I discovered that several more are heading further south to my alma mater of the University of South Florida, which is growing by leaps and bounds.

Lots of reasons to head to Dixie....

Northern VA is so much different than the rest of VA. As a broad generalization, it is is much more multicultural, politically liberal, highly educated, densely populated than areas outside the counties mentioned above. This is not necessarily a good thing, but it is what it is.

This is reflected in the students that come from the area. They are driven, hard-charging kids just like their parents.

State schools want the student bodies to represent the entire state not just one area. I wouldn't resent a student from the Norfolk area taking "my kid's spot" assuming they had the same raw score assessed to their application package but I certainly would be angry if it was an OOS applicant.

In terms of where kids go OOS from VA especially to a different state's public school, I think much has to do with the guidance and career offices at the schools. Fairfax HS clearly has a relationship now with UA. The Alabama admissions office is seeing the performance of these former Virginians in relation to the student body.

For some reason my neighborhood's local FCPS high school routinely sends between 4-6 kids every year to the University of Montana. I know one student is going there for the film school (apparently Robert Redford and Sundance have given a lot of $ to the department) but no idea on the rest.

[QUOTE=Zillini]
Free education at a highly respected in state school vs. $42,500+ per year for out of state at Harvard (tuition, room & board, books and supplies cost listed at http://www.collegetoolkit.com/Colleg...d/166027.aspx). Of course that's without any financial assistance that may be available and accumulated savings which would have to be factored in to the decision.
QUOTE]

The endowment at an IL is large enough, that students do not pay the full tuition. Often, (ex. Harvard), if your parents make under a set income school is free; if you go into a public service type position your loans are paid in full, etc. I would wager, that a senior from a state school vs. senior from an IL would owe the same upon graduation. (I am not including state schools where free tuition is given to all students with a certain GPA).

That is only the beginning... Many large firms do not even recruit anywhere but IL or the equivilent. Prior to returning to school for Nursing, I worked as the Admin Manager for a mid-sized Cap. Mkts group. Starting salary w/ bonus for new assoc. was close to 100k. (that was five years ago). Unless you had an in.. we did not look at resumes from State schools and/or many Private schools. I would argue w/ the type of network that ILs offer, the earning potential is far greater on base.

Public-College Graduates Accrue Almost as Much Student-Loan Debt as Private-College Peers, Report Says

By STEPHEN BURD
http://chronicle.com/daily/2006/08/2006083003n.htm

Students who attend public universities and state colleges graduate with nearly as much student-loan debt as those at private colleges on average, according to a report released on Tuesday.

The report, "Student Debt and the Class of 2005," is the work of the Project on Student Debt, an effort being led by Robert M. Shireman, a former senior education-policy adviser in the Clinton administration. The project, which is being financed by the Pew Charitable Trusts, is working to develop public-policy proposals to reduce the burden of student debt on those least able to afford it.

The report's authors analyzed data on the average debt levels of college students who graduated in 2005, as reported by more than 1,400 four-year colleges around the country to Peterson's, a publisher of college guidebooks.

The authors found that the average debt for seniors graduating from public colleges ranged from $23,198 in Iowa to $11,067 in Utah; the average debt of those from private colleges ranged from $32,504 in Arizona to $13,309 in Utah.

While in most states the average debt of graduates from public colleges is lower than that of private-college graduates, the reverse is true in seven states: Arkansas, Delaware, Iowa, Kentucky, North Dakota, South Carolina, and Tennessee.

The report also found that just because a state college is relatively inexpensive does not mean that its students are not taking on large debt loads. And conversely, just because a private college is costly does not mean its students are assuming unmanageable levels of debt.

In many cases, students from low-income families who attend low-cost institutions have no other option but to take out loans to pay for books, food, rent, and other living expenses. As a result, "a number of campuses with low in-state tuition," of less than $3,500, and high proportions of low-income students report having "average student debt levels of more than $20,000," the report says. Those colleges include Florida A&M University, Grambling State University, North Carolina A&T State University, and Texas Southern University.

At the same time, some of the costliest private colleges provide such generous amounts of institutional need-based aid that financially needy students do not need to borrow as much as they otherwise would if they attended lower-priced institutions.

According to the report, more than 30 private colleges "charge more than $20,000 in tuition yet report that the average debt of their graduates is $15,000 or less." Those include Amherst College, Bard College, Colgate University, the Johns Hopkins University, Macalester College, Sarah Lawrence College, Swarthmore College, Tufts University, and Williams College.

Along with the report, the project has posted on its Web site an interactive map that provides statewide averages and campus-by-campus data.

My sister went to an Ivy League university and, things may be different now but back then if you were granted admission, the school made sure you were given enough in grants and scholarships to get through. I understand that it also helped that our family was spectacularly poor.

So she got through college with very little debt but her debt from medical school? YIKES :eek:

My son was interested in Princeton. A representative came down for a presentation, and we found out that Princeton doesn't give any merit-based scholarships. He decided not to apply. He did apply to Dartmouth though and was accepted. Over half of what they offered in scholarships was what he brought to the table. A friend told me how well-endowed the Ivies were, too. That was just not our experience.

He was also accepted at Duke. They offered more than Dartmouth, but not enough for us to consider it. My son wants to be a doctor, so we just couldn't justify that kind of expense for his undergrad when we'd have med school to look forward to.

My son is a freshman in the Honors College at Clemson. He got all the in-state scholarships for his good grades plus other scholarships and a Clemson scholarship. We got a refund that basically will pay for his PC. He has been a Clemson fan for as long as we can remember, and I think he is very happy. He'll be even happier when he isn't ten zillion dollars in debt!

My son is smart enough and driven enough to make the most of his education, wherever that may be. I'm just glad he is not that far from home!!! :D

This just blows my mind.

Back to the topic...
 

One of the girls I went to high school with got a bid at USC, from her first choice & I understand that it's a top house... without a rec. :)

The top LACs and national universities don't supply merit-based scholarships because they don't need to attract candidates. They are already getting 10 applications for every spot. Duke is a notable exception with the generous Robertson Scholarship.

What these top schools do however, is to make sure much of the financial aid package for need-based candidates is in the form of a grant. So if a kid has an EFC of $30,000 and he's going to HYP that has a COA of $48K, the majority if not all of his financial aid package will be grant. A school with a smaller endowment may be able only able to provide 5K in grant and give out guaranteed loans and w/s to cover the rest. Some schools don't promise to entirely cover need and there may be a gap between their FA package of grant/GSL/ws and the net amount of COA minus the EFC.

The problem arises when a family's Estimated Family Contribution as calculated by FAFSA and the CSS Profile may be different than what the family thinks it can afford or is willing to pay: especially if there is future education planned immediately after the BS/BA degree.

Every year my friends and I laugh together (and probably cry in secret) about the official EFC number. My friend with 5 kids who is a SAHM and her H works for the gov't has an EFC of $40K. A military officer down the street whose W is a substitute teacher has an EFC of $50K. These are ordinary, middle-class people. We were stunned in disbelief at our FAFSA figure.

If you want merit-aid, you have to look at schools where 1. your class rank, GPA and SAT/ACT scores are MUCH higher than the 75% ranking, 2. they actually have merit-aid listed on their FA or admissions webpage.

And yes, when you have an outside scholarship from a local source, it is subtracted from your FA package. Again, unfair in my eyes, but that's the way it is.

----

Every family has to decide what's important to them. Quite frankly, going to the big flagship school in many states is a better way to have professional connections than going to an Ivy.

Tell me about it...granted if they would have applied for Summer B or Early Admissions and not just the General Fall semester they would have gotten in. They even filled out appeal packages. I am not sure if anything came of it because at graduation they were still waiting to hear if their appeals went through.

[hijack from OT]
We were just talking about this at work today. I went to a state school, paid in-state tuition and still racked up $20K in student loans and that was 5 years ago.

The husband went to a small, private engineering school but was able to get grants and scholarships so that he had less than $15K in debt which, at the time 10 years ago, was a little less than tuition for one year. Tuition now is around $30K/year.[/hijack]

As I've said before, recommendations for out out of state non-legacies are particularly crucial in a competitive recruiting environment like the SEC schools. That being said.....

I just read the replies to my DZ daughter's thank you notes to all the wonderful alumni from

Alpha Chi Omega

Alpha Delta Pi

Alpha Gamma Delta

Alpha Omicron Pi

Chi Omega

Delta Zeta

Delta Delta Delta

Kappa Alpha Theta

Kappa Kappa Gamma

Kappa Delta

Phi Mu

Pi Beta Phi

Zeta Tau Alpha

First, I wish to thank these wonderful alums myself becausethey helped my little girl join a wonderful DZ organization by their contributions. After Kristen wrote her respective thank you notes, each alum wrote back a personal note of congratulations and best wishes.

You ladies are just too much. I love you all,

BamaDad DZ

OK, did you mean for this to go in a different thread?
On your subject...don't be so sure she didn't have a rec. PNMs really shouldn't have to get their own recs. The sororities contact their alumnae asking for recs on girls going through. The PNMs might not even be aware that alumnae are recommending them (or not).

Is that really the same kind of rec though? If it's not written by someone who actually knows (or met) the PNM, I don't consider it the same thing as a rec obtained by the sorority (due to their own requirements.)

Collegiate chapter contacts hometown alum...alum knows girl...or finds a fellow alum or friend who knows girl...alum writes rec and sends back. Whether requested or volunteered, it's the same thing.

I think that DG may have a particularly strong network for that- I was surprised to learn when I showed up at recruitment that they had a reference for me at DG- I hadn't asked anyone for one since I didn't know any DGs (so I thought). But they'd found a high school teacher who knew me well- and this was several states away from my hometown.

accepting recommendations has absolutely nothing to do with your panhellenic. it is based on your national policy and that particular chapter.

USC = University of South Carolina, so yes, correct thread. Maybe she got an rec from an alum, but said alum would not have met her.

My EFC was ridiculous in college - when I went to a state school the first two years, our EFC was more than 10x the tuition and my parents really don't make that much money. Luckily when I transferred to a Jesuit school I got a ton of grant money thrown at me - it only cost $2,000 more to attend that school once I got all my grants and scholarships.

I only like the EFC now that I am in grad school and independent - it went from being over $40,000 to being $63 last year. :D

Yeah, having to deal with parental income stuff is terrible. Grad school was really nice in that I got a few merit scholarships and assistantships to lessen the blow.

Your daughter chose well! I know some Delta Zeta's from my previous school. The women were always doing something for the community, or trying to bring the greek system together. They were always up to befriend new people. Wonderful group of women, wonderful organization.

Thank you for the compliment to DZ. It is well-deserved.

My daugher called the gracious alum who wrote her DZ recommendation to announce her Delta Zeta bid. And what did the alum do? She kindly sent my daughter a dozen lovely pink roses that made Kristen the envy of the DZ house! For the record, the alum of whom I speak is a regular on GreekChat, so imadeltaz, thank you very much from a proud DZ Dad!

Are the ladies of Delta Zeta as wonderful as you say? You bet...

Hehe, I wish my Daddy (yes, no matter how old I get, he will always be my DADDY) was so supportive when I pledged DZ! Both of my parents are the best but didn't understand why I went Greek. I think it was because of atmosphere that surrounded them during their college days, but they assumed only negative things about the Greek system. Eventually, of course, they changed their mind, but I think it's awesome that you're so supportive of your daughter, and my sister :D

BamaDadDZ, can you adopt me? :)

In all seriousness, your daughter is one lucky young lady to have a dad like you!

This is true...when I was writing the UF Recs, all of the young women who would have gone out of state stayed in because of Bright Futures. They were also telling me that about half of the kids from the local HS (an IB school) didn't get in! I'm sure I've said it before, but 8 years ago, UF was my SAFETY, and it was for most of the kids in my IB class. I almost didn't apply because I was 99% sure I wasn't going to go.

My sister, a UF alum, insisted that I NOT go to UF and to go to my much more expensive school! :D I'm glad I listened to her (for once!).

UCF is becoming more popular among kids who don't get into UF.

Do the Hope (GA) and Bright Futures (FL) scholarship actually keep bright students in their states after graduation?

They do in FL plus the FL Prepaid College Fund helps, too.

Northerners don't even dress up for football games...how are we expected to take them when they don't know how to dress appropriately?

It's only appropriate to dress up for football games? I think sitting on a bleacher for 3 hours in a dress and heels sounds uncomfortable.

Especially because it is COLD here in the fall. Those fall nights are terribly chilly, even if the day is warm. Heels+dress= hypothermia...or at least crabby and unpleasant.

Yup, we dress up for games, and Ole Miss recruitment of "northerners"
 

Well, I am new to this thread...and GC for that matter...but I'd like to put my two cents in. Ole Miss is notorious for overdressing for football games--and that's the way we like it! It's hard for me to think about going to an Ole Miss game without my pearls and a (red, of course) sundress. I personally don't wear stillettos (they sink into the grass), but I know plenty of people who do. A lot of people think Sports Illustrated said it best: "It seems that 97% of the world's really really ridiculously good-looking people go to Ole Miss. We'll check out the campus tailgate party on the Grove, where the gents sport coats and ties, toting their bourbon highballs in one hand and their highly decorative dates in the other. Chandeliers even hang in tents, providing a light in September in Faulkner country."

But anyway! At Ole Miss, Greek life is probably dominated mostly by southern girls simply because most PNM's come from MS, AL, LA, TN, GA, etc, and many of those places have alumnae groups who send lots of girls to Ole Miss. HOWEVER, there are always girls from "random" states that make quite a stir. The keys are the same for everyone, "southern" or not:

1)have a good, personal, glowing rec from an alum in the general area and 2) get to know people whenever possible! I am surprised by girls who don't really go and put themselves out there and meet girls from the chapters--in bars, on campus, in class, etc.
I know our sorority, has lots of southern ladies (we WERE founded here!), but we definitely want a good mix of girls--if she's a great girl and we learn about her through recs or through personal contact, then we want her!
Rush isn't just about your hometown, it's about getting to know people. It's joining into a group, not just wearing some Greek letters. But that's easy for us to say, because Ole Miss Greeks have recruitment midway through the first semester, and we get to meet girls during their first few weeks. I imagine it'd be really different if we had recruitment before school started.

:D

LOL! I have to admit that when I attended a Vanderbilt football game a couple of years ago I was taken aback by all the young ladies walking around in Lilys (Lilies? What's the plural for a Lily Pulitzer dress, anyhow?) and strappy sandals. I thought maybe they were planning to attend church afterward!

That look wouldn't have worked at my college where it was cold and rainy on most game days, but I did think they looked really cute.