Would you have less problems with someone persuing SGRho, if she told you that she was persuing ZPhiB as well?

The membership intake process for NPHC groups is based on people making the decision to pursue ONE group. With that being said, in order to make the decision which group is right for them, people must do their research. Would I have problems with someone pursuing Sigma after attending functions of the other groups, such as interest meetings or community service events? No. I know that some others in the NPHC would answer that question differently. I personally think that doing your research can include meeting with several groups to see if you think you would fit. I don't think that doing so means you are pursuing those organizations, but instead you are gaining information. With that being said, the number of events that you do with another group will have some weight in terms of my thought as to whether you want to be just a NPHC member or a member of Sigma. This applies on an undergraduate as well as graduate level.

I think this is a completely reasonable answer, and could be applied to AI as well.

she can't do both at once. I would like her to look at both before she picks which is best for her. It just strikes me as odd that the NPC'ers don't want potential AI's to look at the different orgs before taking the plunge.

I think you're misinterpreting that. I think everyone has encouraged PNAM's to do their research before doing anything, but some start contact with multiple orgs all at once, not one at a time.

And when they contact them, its not just to do community service or something like that, but to actually pursue membership? Is that the issue?

Yeppers.

OKAYYYYYYYYYYYY! Now I get it, I guess.

The only nagging thing in my head is about rush for undergrads..... If I was interested in NPC groups in college, but did not pursue membership for whatever reason, is it unreasonable to believe that if I heard of AI, I would think that it was ok to contact more than one group at a time?????

If someone's Mom was a Sorority A and their Sister went Sorority B, then I can understand that they might want to look at both, as they have ties to both.

I think where some of us take exception, is where someone has no previous ties to a group and basically "shops" around to as many groups as it takes, until they find one that will accept them. When someone says, "I want to be an ABC, but I don't know anyone in that group", I find that a bit suspect.
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And on a side note, I'm really glad that some NPHC ladies have come onto this thread and commented/shared. I always welcome the opportunity to learn things from them. So, thank you for that. :)

I can't think of how to say this any better, so here it goes. AI is NOT like rush for undergrads. Yes, sorority membership is for life, however, for 99.99999999999% of sorority women sorority life starts in college. That fraction of a percent who join through AI *should* (in my opinion) only join based on some sort of tie that was present prior to her deciding to become an alumnae initiate. So if you look at it as the same thing as undergrad rush, you're already headed down the wrong path.

ETA: I hope that makes sense! :)

I couldn't agree with you more.

That wasn't the question I was asking. What I was asking was if you did not know any better--- hadn't seen this thread for example--- and the only thing you had been exposed to was undergrad rush for NPC--- is it not possible that you would think that there was nothing wrong with approaching more than one group?


I don't know the answer to that question. You might not either. (And pursuing NPHC membership on both levels is a lot more similar than NPC membership it seems.)

Ah sorry...I understand your question. I guess I see your point. Personally, I had never heard of AI until GC and I'm an alum of an NPC. I guess I just have a hard time believing that most people who have heard of AI through a channel other than GC would ever pursue more than one organization because they would likely be doing it based on ties to a specific organization.

Regarding the resume:

I knew people at UF who joined a sorority because they wanted to enhance their resumes in order to be able to get into law school. Many many people did join A Phi O for selfish reasons including the resume- but I can see how this is more common and intuitive for a service fraternity. I can imagine how in some fields, membership to a social sorority/fraternity may be misinterpreted by people with misconceptions. Personally, I would not mention it- because it would fall in the same category as mentioning I belong to the Young Adult Ministry or the Anime Club. I only mention relevant professional affiliations. And nobody in my library system seems to have belonged to one for some reason.

Regarding reasons for joining:

"Pledged" did not turn me off one bit. Neither did stereotypes that other people had. Nor relatives thinking it is "buying your friends", a "rich girl's longing", or the test-stealing and hazing incidents they witnessed.

About connections:

I did not have any close friends in sororities back at UF. I had acquaintances, classmates, fraternity brothers, and the sort. But one house appealed to me very much. I tried joining it in COB, but it did not work out either (family reasons and other conflicts). When I found out about AI, this was one of the first sororities I thought of. And upon reading their website, I saw it was an excellent match for me. So I have contacted them and the process is going on. Not exactly a connection, but there were some clues.

I certainly do not plan on knocking on every door till someone answers and lets me in. I have no intentions of getting into a random house simply to wear Greek letters.

What do you mean by "tried to COB"? Did they offer you a bid? Is this the only organization you are pursuing?

They were doing open recruitment. I went to their house for dinner and a tour. I did not contact them again because...well, because my parents vetoed my joining a sorority for various reasons.

So no, I was not offered a bid.

It is one of my top two. The top two have philanthropies and ideals that truly are close to my heart and that appeal to me very much.

Well, good luck with that.

Did they contact you again?

EDITED TO ADD FROM A PREVIOUS POST: Sorority as a resume builder? You must be joking. I am loathe to put my lengthy alumnae involvement on a resume: I'm not interested in being a martyr for the "Why don't you stand up and show people your involvement?" cause. Post-college, professionals and academics view Greek life differently. The "alumnae network" is something that you seek out by making calls, emails and sending letters-- not an established party line that finds you a job with an alumna. This doesn't make me less proud of my membership-- but there is a time and a place. I wouldn't list my faith-based activities on a resume, either. Discrimination exists, and I'd rather not be passed over for a job or a program because of someone else's personal biases or in trying to make a statement for all of Greekdom.

********

OMG...the part about the resume builder, I agree completely. I will go one step further and say that we were actually told by the job fair advisor (an English professor in my case) to state "National Womens Association, Treasurer, Preparing and maintaining a budget for 65 members...", etc.

It's like the Old Saturday Night Live skit...once you are out of college, no one really cares if you are a AAA or a BBB...

Nope, I did not hear from them again. But I have no idea whether they had my contact information or not.

Same here. ZTA and any of my involvement is no where to be found on my resume. Most people see greek life as a college thing only. The last thing I need is for my sorority to conjure up any stereotypes when I go in for my interview.

I agree. Also, I think that if you have adequate internships and work experience, you probably shouldn't have enough room for sorority involvement on your resume. I don't know anyone who joined a sorority JUST as a resume builder - that's what your internships are for!

I feel the same way too, especially since I'm not in a field where there are a lot of Greeks, nor do I live in a region where Greek life would affect my career goals. I do keep a resume of community service-related activities which are completely unrelated to my professional resume, and that's where my GLO involvement goes.

Resume
 

Actually I have DPhiE on my resume but I have it listed under "affiliations and recent volunteer experience"--and the reason I do list it is because what I have done for the sorority is directly related to my line of work. I work in alumni relations and fundraising--and my experiences as a sorority leader and a foundation board member have helped me immensely in terms of being able to offer examples of how I work with volunteers, develop programs, manage relationships, raise money etc. At the height of my experience, I was giving more than 20 hours a week to the sorority, and it could have been a full time job. I also have examples of documents/ publications that I have put together for the sorority in my overall portfolio.

So--as with everything--I think there is a time and a place that it may "work" to share your sorority affiliation and activities on the alumnae level. Obviously, you probably don't want to mention that you were "Rush Chair" as a collegian on your resume, especially if you more than a year our of school.

Eh, for the hell of it. SK is on my resume in a volunteer activities section because I was webmaster for 2 years (longer than I was for a paid position) and I've applied for a lot of IT type positions.

I have KLP on my resume because I was treasurer and social chair. I work in finance now and eventually would like to go into event planning so those are relevant positions. I don't have any of my other positions listed though.

That's how I list mine as well. I'm an International Officer, I've founded and lead an alumnae chapter, I've chaired a Task Force and all of those have given me skills that my job hasn't. I'm much more well rounded than I would be without it. Why wouldn't someone list it?

I think it is great to list it if it has implications in your field, or if you have reason to believe that the person reading the resume would understand something about Greek life, but I know that as a business major I was told point blank (I think in Technical Writing class???) not to put Greek affiliation on my resume because there are a lot of Greek-haters out there who may apply stereotypes unfairly. Or, you might have the HR director who got cut from your sorority and never got over it. I didn't put it on my resume because I wanted to make sure I got the interview. Of course in accounting and taxation they mostly cared about grades - not activities. It would be different in other fields I am sure. Once I had the interview, I would usually bring it up in the course of conversation after I got a feel for the interviewer and was in a position to explain the benefits of Greek life and how that experience made me a good job candidate.

I interviewed a lot of people when I was in management and did some recruiting for my company. If a candidate had a GLO listed I always asked them about it. Surprisingly, some answered with the exact answers that I think the Tech Writing teacher was warning about. "It was just a way to have a full social calendar" or other such statements. Others though were very candid about the life skills learned in GLO membership and especially the leadership experiences. I think it is great to put it on your resume but I totally understand why some people don't.

I'm a finance major (with a master's degree) and my Gamma Phi work has no similarities to my job (exactly the point) and I've never had any issues with anyone who's interviewed me for a job.

As I said, I think that's great. (And I also have a masters degree.)

Should/would you list your Greek affiliation (assuming it is a social GLO like NPC sororities) if you were just another member? I can see how it would be helpful if you were an officer. But if you were simply a civilian member who did not hold any offices, would it be beneficial?

It's highly unlikely that if you joined as an undergrad that you never held SOME sort of office/chair.
(Although I guess if you're in the SEC in a 200 member chapter, it could happen.)

I don't think there is a "should" here. You just assess your own situation and determine what you want to do. I was an officer in my professional fraternity and I always put that on my resume. I chose not to put AOII on my resume. I didn't want to take the chance that the person reading the resume may treat me unfairly for being in an NPC sorority. That can happen. Other people may look at your NPC status and give you an unexpected benefit. You never know.

As it turns out, my first real boss was like a computer - ridiculously smart, no use for personality of any kind, and was from Hong Kong and barely spoke English. She did, however, graduate from UT (Texas) and knew what sororities were. She certainly thought all sorority girls were blonde bimbos with idiot-level IQs. After she was fired (ha ha) my next boss LOVED the fact that I was in an NPC and he would shoot the breeze about it frequently. It just depends. I also think you need to know your field. There are scads of business people who are GLO members or who harbor no grudge because they have had good GLO employees. However, my specialized field after grad school was taxation - very nerdy and not very Greek. I made a judgment call, that was encouraged by professors, and it worked out for me. Maybe it would have worked out just the same if AOII had been on my resume.

*I am not suggesting UT NPC women are blonde, stupid, bimbos. Just that by going to UT, that boss knew what sororities were since they are prominent on that campus.*

I never tried to hide my NPC membership, I just waited until we could discuss it rather than take a chance that the person on the other end wouldn't understand it.

No. I include mine because it has given me relevant job skills.

The thread has gone off topic a bit into resume building.

Getting back to the central point: Thank you to those that took a stab at the topic matter.

Ok. I understand the argument that you should feel people should have a connection to the organization they wish to pursue.

However, wasn't that meant to be a tangible connection?

Deciding that you wish you had joined a sorority in college, reading some web sites, and then feeling a connection because of the web site's information . . . well it doesn't seem like quite the same thing as having some direct affiliation.

Looking at it through the perspective that causes all the commotion about AI, the less I see the purpose of this whole forum.

This forum basically only exists to provide people with no tangible connection to any organization a way of learning how to cold contact one
and apply for membership. Because if you have a tangible connection you don't need this site.

It exists to help people shop for a sorority.

So if you don't agree with sorority shopping you probably don't se the purpose of this forum right?

Interestingly enough, the move to the recruitment topic reinforces the idea that sorority shopping is the way to go.

Even people with no tangible connection to any organization can pursue alumnae initiation WITHOUT any "help" from this site.

I agree that this forum provides help for those wishing to "shop" for a sorority -- although I'd be more specific and say that this forum might provide help for people who are shopping for a sorority and are too lazy or clueless to go about it in what my opinion is the "right" way to do so -- by contacting and getting to know people in real life. (Sidenote: I'm not talking directly about anyone here -- this is just my opinion in general.) If you lack the skills and qualities needed to make contact with an organization without the "assistance" of a message board or people you "meet" on a message board, I would question whether you have the skills and qualities that would make you an effective addition to an organization's membership.

The good thing about this forum is that it lets us "get to know" people some of us might not consider appropriate candidates.

I agree with this.

I think I could have gone the rest of my life without having to see some of the stuff I've seen recently. :eek:

Well said.

I just happened to look at this forum a couple of times, and now that James has asked the question I have to respond.

Fraternities do have various forms of honors and memberships granted to individuals (in some cases male or female) who have devoted their time and care to the fraternity. House mothers for example- even though few fraternity houses have a live-in house mother any more.

But it is never advertised anywhere. It is one of those things that comes to you when the time is appropriate and because brothers initiated in the traditional manner are so moved by your service as to wish to accord you the highest honor that the organization could possibly bestow.

I have read this forum more out of curiosity than anything else since I have never seen AI discussed openly before, and since I have a tendency to be blunt- let me please say what I am sure many are thinking,

Sorority shopping for AI initiation does happen on this forum, and it is amusing at best- insulting at worst.

I firmly believe that AI is something that should come to the prospective initiate in most cases. Otherwise, I think a prospective initiate should be approaching a particular chapter because of a deep personal connection (open to a variety of definitions) that leads one to wish to offer service to the chapter. Perhaps your daughter is a member, or friends of yours were in college- and the chapter now needs an advisor or dedicated volunteer. Or maybe you are a faculty member and would like to help advise a sorority (or fraternity) from a scholastic standpoint. All Greek organizations could benefit from a closer connection with school faculty.

Stray from that, and you are sorority shopping.

And by assuming that you can shop around to 2 or more sororities and get initiated, you assume two conflicting things,

1. That you can gain personally by an association with the sorority.
2. That the sorority is so casual about its sisterhood that they would admit a post-collegiate stranger as an AI.

Motives may vary from person to person, but consider how this looks. Anyone considering the application of a sorority shopper who has no past connection to the sorority is naturally going to assume you want the letters for your own purposes first and foremost.

And frankly some of you should be more careful with what you write here. As others have noted, mixed in with an expressed desire to AI are disaparaging comments about active sisters, sororities in general and statements that clearly indicate your AI quest is about YOU first and foremost- not about being part of a sisterhood.

For my part I can tell you, as the proud member of an old Texas family, that we all know each other. Going the AI route to boost your personal prestige or social standing is not going to work. In fact it will have the opposite effect.

And if your goal is to finally be in a sorority as an AI with chapter advisory duties- but then try to change your chapter to suit the vision of sorority life you think should have been when you did not pledge as an undergrad, best of luck surviving that too. You will need it.

Ideally- either AI comes to you or you volunteer with pure motives to a single chapter of a single sorority.

This forum is a great place to get advice on that.

But for the sorority shoppers, the negative reaction you get here pales in comparison to the face-to-face encounters you will endure if you insist on pursuing AI in this manner.

What if your closest exposure to a specific sorority (say, a friend or co-worker of yours) is a GLO that does not really match your personality or ideals. That you cannot see yourself being a member of, even though it is a great match for the person you know. However, you decide to investigate more about sororities (without necessarily having AI in mind)- and come across one that is a fantastic match for you, but was not at the university you attended. And it does engage in AI without major restrictions. Your friend says good things about it, even though she ended up joining a different one. She talks to you about AI, and now you would love to belong to that new organization. Wouldn't this be a valid reason to approach AI?