Positively, let's get one thing straight.

I am not singling out AKA and DST with my questions, I usually ask NPHC orgs as a whole, it just so happens that AKAs and DSTs have been my most frequent respondents.

You always have an option not to respond to a question, which I understand wholeheartedly, but please do not present an attitude that you (or others) are doing me a favor by responding.

I am not asking ANY org to change their policies, what I am asking when I present the questions that I do is that they take off their blinders and present some original thought, not some canned, Spam-tasting rhetoric. I have been in the Greek game for 9 years and I know a lot more about Black Greek life than arguably, a lot of BGLO members themselves who has been in it 2 and maybe even 3 times as long. So when I ask something, it is not to step on toes, it is to create a new perspective and to broaden insight, and maybe even to force people to think outside of this BGLO rhetorical "box" that they seem to have been indoctrinated to respond in.

I will continue to ask such question b/c I feel that they are valid. If you take offense, please put on a tougher skin or just not respond. But all I ask is that if you do respond, please answer the question at hand, not skirt the issue.

Again, Positively, all I got from you was rhetoric, not an answer.

Rain Man

My, are we a little spitfire today? Typical response from a defensive individual.

To quote a tipsy Alex Trebek from "High Rollers"

"It's a shame, it's a shame, it's a shame."

Thank you McCoyred for answering my question.

This question is basically for Nupe4Life.

Did you really think that members of organizations that do not have affiliates/auxillaries would be open minded to such a concept?

I don't. That would be like me asking some Kappas "Do you think it would be beneficial to your organization to offer honorary memberships?" How many Kappas would say yes to that? My guess would be few or none. Most Kappas are proud of the fact that there is only one way into their organization.

For whatever reason, most Greeks are only able to see things from the perspective of their own organization. That must be why there are 4 NPHC sororities and 5 NPHC fraternities to choose from.

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"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." ~Harry S. Truman~

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited December 21, 2000).]

COMEDY, PURE COMEDY! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

'NUFF SAID!

BTW, I AM AN OFFENSIVE KIND OF GIRL... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Rain Man,

I have been reading all of your responses and frankly, I'm just not understanding one thing. Why do you keep asking all these questions and after someone answers them, you say (paraphrasing) "I'm still not getting an answer, just rhetoric".
I think if you read the answers again, you will see that the AKAs and DSTs have MORE than answered your question. What they said is that they DO NOT feel their orgs should change their membership requirements to accomodate whoever it may be. That's the bottom line. They've said that like 3 times! Why don't you get that? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but they really have answered the question. They may not have answered it the way YOU want it to be, but they have. So leave them alone. Dang!
You just can't go around changing rules and regs to accomodate every Joe and Jane. That is just not going to happen. I mean, you're Greek, would you suggest to your Nat'ls that they do that?...go around changing their req's to meet EVERY damn body that was interested, so they can get up in your org? NO, you wouldn't! It's insane and damn near impossible. You say you know so much about Black Greeks or whatever, then you should know how they feel about people who seek membership into their orgs. Being Greek is a PRIVILEGE, NOT a right!! Why don't you understand this? Geez!

A Point of clarification...
I think what Rainman is asking is what makes women who are initiated say their sophomore year and for what ever reason, drop out of school (IT HAPPENS WITH ALL NPHC orgs.)anymore qualified/priviledged than those women that attend junior college.

And before anyone takes offense. Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated does NOT have membership at JC/CC either. And yes, we PRIDE ourselves in being selective too. The only difference is we have an alternative affiliation.

In the 21st century we need to be very careful of how we address "classic academia". I know quite a few folks who have associate degrees in say COMPUTER SCIENCE...who are doing very well, as well as another famous college drop-out who based on all of our current standards would not be eligible for traditional membership outside of honorary membershio...yet, he has given a trememdous amount of service & $$$$$ to the Black community and was responsible for revolutionizing the computer age. We all know who he is...No need to drop names...turn on your PC and you will know his work.

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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

[This message has been edited by Finer Woman10-A-91 (edited December 21, 2000).]

You're lucky it's Christmas. Otherwise one of your responses (the shouting thing)I would've had to give you a "Block" (another "Whew" thang). http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

So you get one freebie 'cause I am a nice guy.

PING! *trilon (flippy box) reveals green arrow pointing upward* CHARGE!

(still another "Whew" thing)

Rain Man

UH OH! I GUESS I AM SUPPOSED TO BE THANKFUL? NOT! AM I SUPPOSED TO BE SCARED? NOT!

LET'S JUST SAY, THAT I WILL NOT RESPOND TO YOU ANYMORE! OUT OF RESPECT FOR MY SORORITY, MY SORORS, MYSELF, AND MY FELLOW GREEKS!

I DON'T HAVE TIME TO LOWER MYSELF BY GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH YOU, WHAT IS THAT GOING TO ACCOMPLISH? NOT A DOGGONE THING!

THE FACT STILL REMAINS, I DON'T THINK THAT OUR SORORITY NEEDS AN AUXILIARY GROUP TO CARRYOUT OUR PROGRAMS. SIMPLE AS THAT! IT IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR US!

I THINK SOROR AND MY OTHER SISTERS IN GREEKDOM HAVE ANSWERED APPROPRIATELY. WITH THAT RAINMAN, I BID YOU ADIEU!

ET. AL...

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Smart move; if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Happy Holidays to you too.

*music from the song "Another One Bites the Dust" by Queen" plays in the background*

[This message has been edited by Rain Man (edited December 21, 2000).]

Sigh...Thanks for the clarification on this point Soror. I would assume that the SGRhos and Zetas have some of the same rationale for creating adult auxiliary groups for being a part of the Zeta or SGRho families, respectively. That rationale was NOT to provide an outlet for women who lacked a 4-year degree, for whatever reason, to belong to a sorority in some capacity. For Zeta, it was the 1948 formalization of relationships that had been on going since near the genesis of the Sorority. I am sorry if that was not clear from the outset. How this got to be an issue of "selectivity vs. non-selectivity" or "organizations with affiliates" vs. "ones without" or “women who want to join from a CC” is frankly beyond my realm of understanding. Clearly, since my Sorority has had an adult auxiliary since at least 1948, I cannot imagine my Sorority without Amicae as a member of the Zeta family. Conversely, those organizations that have never had an auxiliary can probably not see a need for them within their organization. I would hope it would be as simple as that.

By the way, we do have Amicae who are well-known in their own right: Hope Flood and Melanie Camancho, both comediennes, are Zeta Amicae as well, to address MidWestDiva's question, in part.
Best, Shela



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Finer Womanhood: the "Cat's Meow" Since 1920

Points of clarification, ZC4L

In my initial post, I asked three questions; parts 1 & 2 have been fully answered, part 3 somewhat, but answered nonetheless. When I was saying that my questions weren't being answered, I was referring more to my follow-up questions in responses to posts made by Positively AKA and AKA2D. In other words, when I got a little deeper in the topic, it was at that point the FOLLOW-UP questions weren't being answered, although I have to admit when I was asking for non-rhetorical answers I was probably thinking about all the other responses to posts I made being made in a "prescribed" manner.

In short, my initial questions were answered to my satisfaction, and a big thanks to all who responded (though I would like to get some frat input), while my follow-ups to Positively and AKA2D were not, and that was my target for the "rhetoric" posts.

As far as my org issuing membership to every Joe and Jane, frankly that has already been done to a great extent. The basic requirement to be an Alpha Phi Omega is that you must be an enrolled college student at an accredited institution of higher learning that has a chapter of Alpha Phi Omega. BTW, Alpha Phi Omega can have chapters at ANY college, 2-year, 4-year, trade, technical, heck, there is nothing prohibiting APO from starting a chapter at Ajax Barber College or Ace Hair and Nail Academy. What if you graduated? If you in grad school, you can join an undergrad chapter, if not, there's always honorary membership, which is something APO issues like business cards. Of course, the chapter I pledged at had a process of weeding out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved frat. But I digress.

Hope this helps

Okay here's some frat input. It has been stated before that Kappa Alpha Psi Fratenity, Inc. does not offer honorary membership. This is true. Therefore, every NPHC organization has it's own membership requirements and standards. If one wants to seek membership in these nine illustrious organizations, one must meet the minimun requirements and in most cases, exceed them. Just because Zeta and SGRho have affiliate groups, the members of these groups are just that. I know the sorors of Zeta and SGRho respect these women and appreciate them for all their hard work. However, they are not nor will they ever be sorors unless they meet the membership requirements. This goes for all NPHC organizations as well as other fraternities. Like someone else said, there are other community organizations that give people the chance to get involved with public service as well as experience a sense of brother/sisterhood. I think too often people look for us as Greeks to cater to the needs and wants of those not Greek. I'm sorry but I can't do that. I speak for all the NPHC orgs. when I say that memberhip has it's privileges. Greek Love to all my fellow brothers and sisters in Greekdom. Much luv to you all. U.N.I.T.Y!

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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

If a student transfers from any school to any school, regardless of it's degree-granting status, they must wait one year before applying for membership. If they transfer after earning an Associates degree, by then, they are in their senior year anyway! So to transfer just to pledge is ridiculous and a waste of money if the intention is not to earn a 4-yr degree but just to pledge. Besides, we usually can figure that out if that is the case.



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MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

What it says Rain Man is that IF ONE WANTS SOMETHING...HE OR SHE WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET IT!

NOW, THAT I ASKED YOU A QUESTION, REGARDLESS IF IT IS APPLES AND ORANGES, PEAS, OR CUCUMBERS...WHY CAN'T YOU ANSWER IT? TIME AFTER TIME, YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO ASK SOMETHING AND YOU EXPECT OTHERS TO ANSWER YOUR WAY OR IT'S THE HIGHWAY...SO WHY CAN'T YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION?

WOULD YOU MODIFY THE BIBLE?

SAME SCRIPT...DIFFERENT CAST!

YOU SAY YOU HAVE AN ASSOCIATES, THEN WHY DID YOU FEEL THE NEED TO OBTAIN YOUR BACHELOR'S DEGREE? WAS YOUR AS/AA NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?

I STILL SAY...IF YOU WANT SOMETHING...YOU WILL MEET THE REQUIREMENTS!

EVERYONE MAKES CHOICES IN HIS OR HER LIFE...IF AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE IS ALL HE OR SHE WANTS...THEN THAT'S IT! THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT AN ASSOCIATES WILL NOT GET YOU...

'NUFF SAID! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Thank you, N4L, for summing that up.

Thank you everyone, including AKA2D for you input. Here's why I asked this question.

I approached a historically Caucasian Christian Fraternity and asked if they had grad chapters. They said no. I then asked if they would be open to having grad chapters and listed the reasons and benefits. They said yes. They said that they will discuss it at the next Conclave and come back to me with the decision. I met numerous brothers and we were up until 3:30 in the morning talking about it. It was a good exchange. My goal was not to change the organization, but rather see if they would be OPEN to change. Mission accomplished, no aloof attitudes, no phony cliched "Membership is a priviledge" lines as a cop-out, just open ears and open dialogue.

Having said that, I just hope all NPHC members understand why there has been a great influx of Black non-NPHC orgs popping up all over the US and I appeal to all those who are ready to start hatin' on the orgs through the websites' guestbooks because of Greek-letter sequence, color schemes, the simple fact that they started their own b/c they did not like any of the NPHC orgs, or any trivial garbage like that, to remember, as you said "Membership has it's priviledges".

Moral to my post(s): Closed minds don't get fed.

Merry Christmas

Rain Man

My goal was not to change the organization, but rather see if they would be OPEN to change. Mission accomplished, no aloof attitudes, no phony cliched "Membership is a priviledge" lines as a cop-out, just open ears and open dialogue.

Having said that, I just hope all NPHC members understand why there has been a great influx of Black non-NPHC orgs popping up all over the US and I appeal to all those who are ready to start hatin' on the orgs through the websites' guestbooks because of Greek-letter sequence, color schemes, the simple fact that they started their own b/c they did not like any of the NPHC orgs, or any trivial garbage like that, to remember, as you said "Membership has it's priviledges".

Moral to my post(s): Closed minds don't get fed.

Merry Christmas

Rain Man[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you Rain Man. I was trying to get my words together before I sounded too defensive. You answered well. As my Zeta sister stated earlier their Amicae have been around since the beginning of their sorority and so have our Sigma Gamma Rho Philos. It is not a question of us "needing" them to carry out our programs as the AKA stated. We certainly don't "need" them but we really do "appreciate" them. They are our "dedicated friends" and we just organized them and gave them an official name. THAT'S ALL!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!

Membership DOES have its privileges!
Regardless if it's AKA, DST, ZPB, SGR, Me Phi Me, You Phi Me! EVERYONE CANNOT AND WILL NOT be a member of these organizations or OTHERS! No matter how hard he or she tries. ONE SHOULD SAY THIS CLICHE' WITH PRIDE, regardless of the organization!

Anyone can organize a group of people and call them WHATEVER, but WE ALL know that they will not likely be REVERED like the ELITE EIGHT or the DIVINE NINE!

And, What is this signing guestbook crap? What is that about?

Now, for "organizing and namng" that's fine that you all did/do that. I, personally, do not see why it is necessary. That's why there were 4 groups for me to choose. I chose the organization that was best for ME. And it just so happens that they do not have an "auxilliary" group.

That is NOT being CLOSED MINDED...It's just being truthful.

I guess that if my organization DID have an auxilliary then my ideology would be different. So, if your organization has one, THEN YOU SHOULD GO TO BACK YOUR ORGANIZATION. I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD!

But, don't expect everyone to see things your way and call it having a CLOSED MIND!

Everyone here has his or her own opinion. That includes me, my soror, a fellow sister in greekdom, or Jane Doe. Regarding this topic, my opinion remains THE SAME!

BTW,
MY MIND IS VERY OPEN! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

One should keep in mind that there are non-Greek organizations out there who are just as selective or more than most Greek organzations.

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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

Rain Man, we have a right to be proud of our history. There are few other Black orgs in this country with such a long history. While there have been non-NPHC orgs before and since our foundings, ours have endured!!

The 'hate' on non-NPHC BGLOs is different than you describe. The question is that if someone is going to found a 'new' BGLO, at least be original...at least don't copy the very same things for which the NPHC orgs are being disparaged.


BTW, how old is the Christian GLO of which you spoke?



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MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

I will reply by paragraph.

Paragraph 1: OK, if you say so.
Paragraph 2: That is strictly a matter of opinion, period. BTW, I will not nor will I ever refer to NPHC orgs as the Elite 8 or Divine Nine. You can if you want to, but I won't
Paragraph 3: Y'know, when I see NPHC orgs hating on Black non-NPHC orgs via the website guestbooks, I wonder the same thing. So if you find out before I do, lemme know, ok? Thanks http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Paragraphs 4-8: *in the same calm neutral tone as before* OK, if you say so.

Thank you AKA2D for you input.

Next!!!!

Rain Man

Well, mccoyred, as far as copying, I wouldn't worry about that, fake orgs will usually won't last long anyway. But I wonder how many NIC or NPC orgs hate on locals or new orgs because they are copying aspects of NIC/NPC orgs. I am trying to separate the substancial from the trivial.

As far as the Christian org's history, it was formed as a merger between two Christian fraternities, one founded in 1925, the other founded in 1936. The merger was formed in 1941 under a NPHC org's name. When this was found out, they changed the name in 1949. When I asked which year they recognized, they could not give an answer, probably because IMHO they do not get hung up on that aspect.

Hope this helps.

Well RainMan, I am sorry to say that this org will probably NOT institute alumnae chapters, regardless of your late night brainstorming session. Usually this type of structural change is done early in the organizational process. Since they have been around at least since 1941, they probably don't have a need for alumnae chapters.



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MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Good Luck!



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MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Good Luck!



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MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Rainman you have a right to your opinion and i will give you that plus i will extend the benefit of the doubt to you that you are not "just another hater" although you come across very arrogant and judgemental towards BGLO's that don't do it "your way" as if you know what's best for BGLO's, simply, i wonder why you are spending soooo much time worrying about what BGLO's are doing and how they are doing it, when you have your own organization, do you not? my pledge was to build up AKA not sit around trying to get dst/zeta/sgrho to change their agendas as if it was any of my business or concern http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif each organization has a right to do as they choose in how they carry on their business/structure, none of us, especially NONE members should/has the right to tell another BGLO what they should/change/be opened minded too. its not YOUR place. i don't see ANYBODY on here trying to tell you about yourself for choosing and adhering to the fraternity you joined. there may be members of BGLO's who may not agree with your frat's policies/agenda/structure etc. but i dare not tell a dst/zeta/sgrho what her oganization should do, that ain't my business and i don't care. as for other greek groups starting up, let them do their thang, if they chose not to pursue other established organizations for various reasons or were simply rejects of one of the Divine Nine then that is not my concern either. The Elite Eight/Divine Nine ARE and HAVE been very significant whether those three words come out of your mouth or not, as many of OUR members have paved the way for your "behind" to be able to talk as confidently as you do today. we the Divine Nine are not worried about other new groups coming up, that is great! that is wonderful for it is good to see people bonding and helping their community in whatever name. we (BGLO's) may not always agree but those of us who understand brotherhood/sisterhood know that the bottom line is that our organizations are priceless to us and our communities so please don't compare us to glo's, your frat or any others because there is NO comparison we are all different. and before you come back with another "I AM" post about how we "ain't" deep enough for you, go post on your frat board, start a thread for your peeps, kick it with your "bruhs", do some community service and remember if you can why you joined your frat and work on continuing your founders vision, and stop worrying so much what the "Jones" are doing http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif we've been doing just fine without your insight for over 90 years, believe me we will be just fine. take care.

Touche, Positively, touche.

Very good point(s). I will remember that always.

I will try to take the high road in regard to future posts & discussions about BGLO life.

Thank you for your input, really.

Have a good one http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Rain Man

Touche, Positively, touche.

Very good point(s). I will remember that always.

I will try to take the high road in regard to future posts & discussions about BGLO life.

Thank you for your input, really.

Have a good one http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Rain Man

DAMN!!!!!!!!!!
See what you started NUPE? HEHEH!!Just playing
Glad to see people talking about interesting topic. It is kind of funny how I agree with a little of what everyone is saying-It is too hot to add to it. Fellow bros and sis have said enough TO EACH HIS/HER OWN!!!!!!!!!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Maria (The Dominican SGRho with the sexy accent) Make 'em say uuuuuuhhhhhh
SIGMA GAMMA RHO Sorority, Inc.
What else did you expect? Ju don know?

Is December 25th YOUR birthday?
Were you BORN in a manger in BETHLEHEM?
Was your mother a virgin? And were you CONCEIVED by the HOLY SPIRIT?
Were your EARTHLY parents named Mary and Joseph?
Do many CHRISTIANS around the world CELEBRATE, PRAISE, WORSHIP you?

HECK NO!


NEXT!!!!!!!!

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhkay!

*Rain Man stands puzzled at the charger podium for several seconds before the "time's up" buzzer buzzes twice. Host shouts, "Same level 4". Rain Man shouts, "Level 4, $30!" Trilon reveals next item.....*

Not necessairily true, Mccoyred. They are currently in the process of starting alumni chapters for those that are already in the brotherhood and want to continue the experience after graduation. It's the matter of initiating those who have not had the chance to pledge/join as an undergrad via an alumni chapter that is being discussed currently. And even if they don't, I appreciate the time they took to consider it, plus chances are that they will probably give those in my predicament some alternative means to join and not leave us "in the cold." Some alternatives have already been discussed and contemplated.

I was just curious about one aspect of these different "auxiliary" groups. Don't you run into problems of people getting angry, because they feel like they're being treated as 'lesser' members of the overall whole? The auxiliary members may have thought it was a great idea originally, but then they might become "disillusioned" later on.

I could forsee lots of potential for people to disrespect others on that basis. You have to admit, to some degree, you're creating a 2 (or 3) tier "society" if you will. There are "levels of membership" that are at least perceived as "higher" than others, wouldn't you agree?

I wholeheartedly agree that membership standards need to be in place and maintained vigorously. I certainly have no problem with that.

It just seems to me that creating different "classes" of membership in the overall whole could lead to some big ego problems. It's bad enough in many cases with actives versus pledges. It just seems to me this sort of scheme could create similar feelings. Am I just wrong on that one?

Regards,
Rob

I think there may still be a little confusion... None of our affiliate groups (older, younger, HS age) are considered ANY kind of MEMBER of our orgs. They are members of their own org: "Sigma Gamma Rho Philos" or "Zeta Phi Beta Amicae" (Sorry sisterfriends... is this their proper name?) There should never be any disillusionment. They come in knowing that they may be connected to "Sigma", but they themselves are not SIGMA. Only a woman of Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority Inc. will be called a SOROR and extended all rights and privileges that this name entitles us to. Same goes for all orgs. I hope I don't sound like a broken record... but I think there's still a little confusion as to the position of auxiliaries within our orgs.

oh my goodness! what in the world is going on in here? as a read through the thread i noticed that a couple of issues are being mixed up. first, affiliate membership and honorary membership are 2 different animals. one of the sisterfriends correctly stated that they persons in this group are not members of the sorority. in Delta Sigma Theta, honorary members are indeed members of the sorority. these requirements are known to the membership of Delta Sigma Theta and that is enough for the general public's information.

we all should understand that in our inceptions we were all elitist to a point. how many young black people could afford not to work to support their families and go to college? so, the number of black people matriculating was small. and in organizations that pride themselves in being selective, it should come as no surprise that there will be some who are left out. that is a part if the game, if you choose to play. if you want gauranteed membership, join a church, the NAACP, a social and savings club, or any of a host of public service or social organizations.
as i previously stated, Delta Sigma Theta was founded as a sisterhood for college educated black women and we are still shaped to that purpose. for those women that do not or cannot seek a degree from a 4-yr institution, they do not meet the requirements for membership into Delta Sigma Theta. it is that simple.

LOL@ SoloRho: The official name is Zeta Amicae.



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Finer Womanhood: the "Cat's Meow" Since 1920