Huge ditto on everything you said, but I had to highlight this point. For those who haven't breastfed, they have no idea that, at least at the beginning, it truly is an enormous time commitment. This is a difficult concept for moms-to-be to grasp, so I can understand why people whose family isn't growing don't even know there's a concept they're missing.

And, about how long is too long... that can only be answered by mom and baby.

Finally, KLPDaisy, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about Lynette's colleague when reading this thread!

Understandable, but that's why I admitted I had no experience and asked the question. I know it's a natural thing, but if someone were doing it around me and I knew, I'd feel really uncomfortable.

This is just an innocent question, but what about pumps and bottling it? Don't alot of working mothers who BF do that?

There are too many problems with this. Pumping takes FOREVER and it is uncomfortable. A baby can express more milk than a pump, hands down. Plus, letting a baby use a bottle (filled with breastmilk or anything) makes for a lazy mouth and the baby will begin to struggle with breastfeeding.

Exactly. Because my son lost too much weight the first week after he was born, I had to start supplementing with formula and I think that seriously affected his latch and desire to suck. Granted, I also had supply issues from the beginning, but a good chunk of my maternity leave was spent sitting in a chair, attached to a pump trying to get enough milk for just one bottle per day. I really wonder, if I hadn't had to supplement so early, would my breastfeeding experience been better?

Many women who are seriously commited to breasfeeding wait at least 4 weeks before introducing a bottle, and some not even then. Some only pump when they know they're going to be out for a night and someone else is watching the baby. Some only start pumping a week or two before they go back to work to start getting used to the pump. For some women, they don't respond to the pump at all, (meaning the pump draws little to no milk) so it's not even an option. And for those women who have made the commitment, no formula is NOT an option. Yes, some women can make pumping and bottlefeeding work, but it is much easier and better for the baby if s/he can get it straight from the breast.

I do have experience in this area and I agree with you, Phyllis. There is no reason to do it in public. Most infants eat every other hour when they are like 3 weeks old and they really don't need to be going out anywhere at that age anyway. I scheduled errands around their feeding times without them. I also cleaned myself off before and after. My kids didn't play on the floor until they were older and then, it was on blankets or in the play pen, not on the floor itself. At the age where they are nursing that often, they aren't playing at all. They are swinging, eating, sleeping and being held. Once they are mobile, they can wait a half hour until you get somewhere private to feed them. Perhaps more private nursing lounges in our society would be appropriate because it truly is disgusting to go into a bathroom to nurse. I hated when people came over to see the baby when they were really little because I spent most of my time in another room feeding them. To me, it's a private thing to be done in private.

Every working mother I know who nursed also pumped and put it in bottles and it didn't deter the baby from taking the breast again at all. They even gave my babies sugar water in a bottle in the hospital and it didn't affect their ability to latch on or nurse. I hear that argument all the time, but have never seen it happen.

Within about 6 weeks, most babies are eating every 3 to 4 hours and you can definitely plan around that. I didn't feed my kids babyfood, bottles, etc in public either. There was no reason to. My schedule revolved around their schedule. Within 6 months, they're starting on food.

I would have never felt comfortable nursing in public and don't wish to see others doing so. That said, I have no problem with the cover of that magazine. It shows nothing and is appropriate for the audience of the magazine.

Just my opinion.

Private nursing lounges are a catch-22 situation for businesses, etc. I worked in the retail sector for years. Most of that was in kids and baby retail. To be a truly baby friendly store I feel you need a nice, clean nursing lounge. Unfortunatly due to law, I was unable to tell mothers about it. Even though my store had one. I could only offer it if asked. Stores want to please their customers but they also want to make money. It doesn't make economical sense for them to invest in the extra space in their stores that they could use for clothing, etc. if they can't tell mothers about that service.

I too think it should be private. It's my time to bond with my child in a way that only I can. They are only a baby for so long.

That's just my two cents on the issue....

I would not breastfeed my future children in public, because I don't want to get caught, but I will breastfeed my children. My mother had never breastfed me or my sister.

Why is it against the law to tell people about the nursing lounge?

That's interesting because I've never seen it work. Yet another example for me is my friend who has an eight month old who had been breastfeeding from the start. The father got very insistent about being able to feed her so the mother allowed him to give the baby breastmilk in a bottle. It created a lot of work for her because pumping is so difficult. But, she consented. They did that for a few weeks but after a short time, the baby wouldn't nurse anymore. The mother is heartbroken.

It could be interpreted as not allowing a mom to feed in public. So to protect the mom's right to feed and to ensure businesses don't do something that could get them sued, you can not offer the room unless you are asked.

But it can be shown as an option, not a requirement.

Also, in some establishments, it is harder to nurse in the public area. Say, Wal-Mart or Target may not really have seats where you can comfortably sit down and nurse a baby in peace.

I have seen women do it in audiences at a library program. They did it so discretely that at first I could not tell- especially when the lights were dimmed.

Maybe it worked ok because they switched up back and forth from day one? I can't say for sure. The experts do say that it can make the baby lazy, I just dont know anybody who has experienced that. By 8 months, my kids were drinking out of sippy cups and eating food though! There were still some bottles, but it was much less frequent (like bed time only, I think.. but it's been a long time now). Even with introducing foods, the "experts" change their minds every few years and recommend something new. Maybe the type of nipple used has something to do with it too.. I dunno!

Oh boy! I had to come out of lurkdom for this one!

I am very impressed by some of the responses on here:)

The AAP recommends babies be exclusively breastfed for 6 months (that means no water, formula, cereal or baby food) and continue to be breastfed for a minimum of 1 year. There is no maximum. Breastmilk never loses nutritional value. AAP statement http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;115/2/496

The WHO recommends a minimum of 2 years. http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/.../en/index.html

The teeth argument doesn't cut it. Some babies get their first tooth at 3 months, some at 1 year. Having teeth doesn't mean babies stop sucking and start biting.

Teeth are also not a sign of readiness for the intro of solid food. Most babies do not lose their tongue thrust reflex until about 6 months. Some take longer. This is a natural protective measure to keep anything but a nipple out of their mouths. Solid food is not meant as a replacement for breastmilk. Baby food is nutritionally deficient compared to breastmilk, or formula for that matter. The point is to introduce different tastes and textures. Into the second year of life breastmilk actually becomes fattier. Here is the nutritional breakdown:http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html

Mothers who are exclusively breastfeeding often do not introduce any artificial nipples in order to avoid nipple preference or confusion. This can lead to a bad latch or refusal to nurse. Some babies can switch easily back and forth but many can't. Many breasfed babies will not take a bottle from their mother, but will for someone else. When you are so close to the source why would you take it from a bottle?! Even if a mother did this to avoid nursing in public, she would need to express her milk at the same time her baby would be hungry. Otherwise you are asking for mastitis or a decrease in supply.

As someone else said, a pump can never extract the amount of milk that a baby can. Some women have a very abundant supply, but "clam up" with a pump.

As for discretion.....has anyone here seen a woman take her shirt and bra off to nurse? You see more belly chunk from a nursing mama than you see breast. You might get a flash of nipple in the 2 seconds it takes to latch a baby on. The entire nipple and most of the areola are in baby's mouth when nursing. I see breasts used to sell clothing, beer, cars all the time. When they are used to feed a child people freak out.

A babies needs come first. Even a one year old cannot understand that they need to wait a few minutes for mommy to get to a private area. A sippy cup does no good, as its not a source of comfort like a mother's breast is. Also realise that a newborn needs to nurse about 10x+ a day. Some 1 year olds even nurse that often. This is called feeding on demand or following babies hunger cues. Scheduling a breastfed baby often leads to low supply as well as an unhappy baby.

I was never one for a "mothers" room as many of them come equipped with a changing table and a nasty smelly trashcan. I do think its a nice option to have though, as some older babies are very distracted nursers.

Here is my personal experience:
I had an unplanned and unecessary c-section with my daughter. I had a hard time latching her on and against my better judgement allowed a few bottle of formulas in the hospital at a nurses urging:mad: It took us about 2 weeks to fix our latch because of that and it was a smooth sail from then on. My daughter never took a bottle after that, and didn't show interest in solids until about 10months. At about 1 year old 90% of her nutrional needs were met with breastmilk. At age 2 I'd say about 20%. At this point nursing fills more of an emotional need than a nutrional one. Some babies have blankies, some have mama's breasts. Nursing a toddler quells tantrums, heals booboos, and comforts in a scary or new situation.

My daughter is just about weaned now at almost 3 years old, mostly due to my pregnancy. Many women lose their milk supply do to hormonal changes during pregnancy. I think it was the perfect amount of time for both of us. She is a very spririted and independant toddler. I believe the security I have given her through nursing and the sort of gentle parenting that seems to stem from it have made her so. She is very aware of babies needs when we are in public and often comments that a crying baby needs "leche mami":)

Of all the choices I have made in parenting my daughter, breastfeeding is one thing I have never doubted. I know I did the right thing.

My advice to any future mom and dads is to seek support during pregnancy. Don't wait until you have a problem. Remember that doctors have no formal training in human lactation unless they have sought it out on their own. Its not covered in medical school. Also don't listen to advice from women who never breastfed or have had a bad experience. Many moms are out to sabotage other womens breastfeeding experiences due to guilt or anger. Sad but true.

That was a brilliant post.

Mrs. DA was one of the very first lactation consultants, working for a group of OB/GYN's in the Detroit area who founded "The Family Birthing Center" at Providence Hospital in Southfield.

I have listened to her counseling hundreds of young mothers over thousands of hours on the phone.

Breastfeeding works on supply and demand, and when you "supplement," it disturbs that pattern and can cause or exascerbate (sp?) things such as improper latching, positioning, and actually is detrimental to nursing moms who are concerned about alleged low milk supply.

Unfortunately, as you say, medical people are given little or no training in breastfeeding (I had hoped that had changed over the years, but obviously not).

I hope the people will take your experiences to heart.

Nursing is best, but you can't do it all the time if you have a full time job. And if your job is demanding, you might need to get back earlier (in Canada, you get up to a year off, but I *PERSONALLY* do not believe in it, as you may lose your chance in a promotion. Mr. Tau was originally hired for a year-long mat contract and was promoted and hired on a permanent basis about five months in. That promotion could have gone to the woman who had the baby!), so how can you nurse for an entire year? If you want your child to have your own milk, you basically have no choice but to pump.

I would say it's a matter of priority. Personally, if I were more interested in a promotion than nursing my child, I would wait to have children.

Many mothers have had success in going back to work and pumping while away from their babies. It takes work, dedication, education and planning, but it can be done. Employers must allow mothers regular pumping times, and a clean private place to pump. Mothers can keep their babies at the breast by nursing on cue evening, nights and all weekend. Many moms find their supply decreases a bit during the week, but revitalize it after a weekend of straight nursing.

I wish the US had a leave plan such as Canada's:(

Delt Alum,

Your wife sounds wonderful. I am sure she couldn't have done it all without a wonderful supportive husband such as yourself:)

You can't always wait. According to Mr. Tau, the woman he replaced was probably in her mid-to-late 30s and was having her first child. Prime child-bearing years are the same years as when one builds a career.

To ZTAMiami re: I really don't understand why a year off (or a 6 month/6 month split with the hubby) is such a great idea. Again, I think it's a bad thing if someone wants to move up. I have an aunt who went back to work almost immediately having her kids (and she had three!)

Like I said, it's a matter of priorities. My father wanted to spend more time with my brother and me. So, after I was born, he gave up a position as CEO of a successful Atlanta-based company to work in education (Headmaster/Teacher).

I know there are those who can continue climbing the ladder while rearing children, but something/someone always suffers neglect. I would prefer to give up a career for my children because that's what was modeled for me. Other people are different. You, for instance, seem to be concerned about your career. Our values are different but I'm not comparing them...I'm in no place to do that.

Very informative!!! Now this I did not know!

Even showing it as an option can be offense to some people. The only reason that I know about this at all comes from personally experience. Once I offered our lounge to a mother. She was thrilled that we had one and I thought everything was fine. My boss overheard and was livid with me. That was when I found out it was law b/c by offering that to someone who did ask for it it can be perceived that I am denying her her public right to breastfeed. While I may not personally agree with that law I have to abide by it. I do see the reasoning and logic behind it. Just b/c I asked the lady "Would you like to use our lounge so you can sit down?" another establishment with less tact could say "We have a lounge and a highly recommend you go use." While both are offers, one clearly is not an "offer" if you catch my drift. In the example I gave the woman could have turned around and fussed at me thinking I was trying to publicly shun her. I got lucky.

As a hijack... my mom worked at Providence her whole career and has been a patient there for 26 of the last 33 days... I love seeing people get off on the third floor.. I call it The Happy Floor of the hospital because folks are smiling when they go there.

Back to the thread: I don't think anybody is arguing whether breast milk or formula is better. For most babies, all the evidence says that breast milk is better.

I simply never found it necessary to feed either of my babies in public(breast fed or bottle.. I did both). I made plans around their schedule.

My sister had a baby July 25th and has been breastfeeding exclusively, though my nephew was being a little difficult with latching on and lost weight so she stayed in the hospital an extra couple days. The birthing center had a lactation consultant which really seemed to help and I hope that more hospitals follow that trend to try and avoid formula if at all possible.

She has lost over 34 pounds since then, and his goal was to be back at birthweight (6lbs, 12oz) by his well baby checkup last week. The little piglet was 8.5 lbs! :eek: I haven't heard about any problems with feeding while not at home yet but she works from home and that is likely a factor in not having issues yet. Sounds like a quick way to lose weight if it wasn't for the whole infant issue.

What about a no (outside) food/drink policy? It works well for non-babies. Seriously though, I think moms should lighten up. If you (as an adult) don't eat everywhere, then neither should a baby. Besides, some believe that it isn't proper to eat anywhere other than in proper dining places.

When I was a baby, my mother was asked to feed me outside of the restaurant because she brought in outside food. She was a tad upset, but she didn't speak with management or anything like that.

:eek:

Another aside.

I worked just down the street at WJBK-TV from 1977-82, Bach when it was a CBS station. Mrs. DA's sister recently had Breast Cancer surgery at Beaumont. I was chatting with a widow who lives on our block a few weeks ago and mentioned Detroit and she told me her late husband was a doctor at Beaumont for many years.

What a small world it really is.

Just a word about a comment ZTAMiami made. A husband can have an important role in the Breastfeeding relationship as a support to his wife. This is particularly true when dealing with parents, in-laws and well meaning friends who either give bad advice or question decisions. A nursing mom can be fairly fragile, and a supportive husband can deflect those comments and problems.

Hi...you're a grown woman, and if you don't eat you might get cranky (more then ususal), but you don't scream and cry (well, maybe you do, I don't know). Babies do. They're not adults for a reason (even if they may be taller then you). Babies don't care about proper, and they don't care where you are. They just know they're hungry, and are going to scream until that is fixed. A newborn can eat every 1-2 hours, and life doesn't stop because you have a baby.

No, it's more like people today are more likely to get upset AND do something about that situation if they aren't allowed to do something. My mother was upset because she wasn't allowed to bring baby food into a restaurant, but she promptly took me out and fed me elsewhere. We didn't go back to that place until I was old enough to eat "grown up" food. Maybe people back in the 80s were less sensitive.

yeah, I've got a blog post about this one, and there's a nice content thread on BlogHER about it, too.

http://penguintrax.com/chatter/?p=73

DITTO!

Very sad and very true. I had a shouting match with my mother the day I came home from the hospital about the fact that I wanted to nurse my baby, not feed him. Still makes me angry. It was only until my mother got proof that he was growing that she let up and started to offer limited support, which did continue to grow as my son did.

OK another post that shows I'm 1) from a small town 2) old.

The Soroptimists (I think) used to have a "ladies lounge" in our downtown. Mom33 & I used it for the restrooms, but I'm guessing they had a breast-feeding area as well. Needless to say, it's long gone.

We really do need to have nice, enclosed lounges (not sitting on the toilet - do you eat on the toilet? I didn't think so, why should your baby?) for breastfeeding mothers and for mothers in general to take their kids to change diapers, eat etc. I don't really care for seeing little Cody's winky in my face in the diaper changing area of the ladies room, while we're on this whole discussion (especially since sometimes little Cody is old enough to yell "hi!" as I walk by).

I know parents are used to all this stuff and don't think twice about it - but not everyone is. Not everyone is in love with your child like you are. And there are some people (i.e. women who are trying to conceive and can't, women who've just miscarried) who really don't want to see all that at the present moment.

I'm not advocating keeping the kids home till they're 18, just that other peoples' feelings need to be considered as well.

AMEN.

Of course, those people who don't want to see all that at the present moment basically don't want to see a baby at all -- makes little difference whether the baby is nursing or sleeping. Maybe couples shouldn't go to restaurants on dates, because people whose significant others just broke up with them or people who've realized they're never going to find a significant other really don't want to see all that at the present moment.

I'm all for being sensitive to the feelings of others, but even that can be taken too far. It's a nursing baby. As long as the baby is nursing discreetly, deal with.

When we would go out, we didn't take the kids anywhere that wasn't child-friendly to begin with. If we thought nursing might need to occur, we asked for a table where Ms. MysticCat could sit out of up-front view, and she would chose the seat where her back would be to the dining room. She would wear nursing clothes that made it possible to nurse without stripping. And she would use a blanket to give the kid some privacy.

A little common sense from all sides goes a long way.

OK, with the "couples" example you're getting ridiculous.

I'm not criticizing the parents who take the kids out, I'm criticizing our stupid society for not doing things that would go a long way to make EVERYONE feel comfortable.

Not to mention the people who feel such a sense of entitlement at being parents that a request for "discretion" gets interpreted as "you hate children and the family and you're evil." If you can walk through Target nursing with no one knowing it, I could care less. The people I'm referring to are those who use no discretion or decorum at all and then think everyone should applaud them for it because OMG THEY REPRODUCED!

No more ridiculous than refraining from nursing a kid because it might be insensitive to some unknown women who recently miscarried or are having trouble conceiving. Pretty darn analogous, in my opinion.

I'll agree with you completely here.

Find the world's most perfect, considerate person (or couple) and he/she will offend someone.

You can't always tell when two people are a "couple." However, a baby is pretty easily identifiable. :)

Really? I thought you had better observation skills than that. I can always tell .

Besides, don't you know that when you've just been dumped, everyone else has someone, and all two-person groups (or groups are two-person groups) are couples? ;)

Best post I've read...I would have to agree...there are ways to "please" the masses while taking care of business!