The right person is who I can see myself having a long term future with, which I suppose would be marriage. If I can't see myself marrying the person then why should I act like it? (Again, coming from my own personal values)

Outside of religious reasons....the world is a dangerous place and I feel that I need to be wise on whom I choose to have sex with. And I would feel more comfortable asking someone who I've been with for awhile to take an STD test than a short term hook up. Also as a young African-American male, I refuse to become another pregnacy and/or AIDS statistic...there are things that i want to do with my life and right now I feel that having a child would slow me down. Lastly, I like the values that I currently have in referance to choosing the right mate and wouldn't want my potential reaction to sex to negatively impact that. Sex is not the center of my standards in women and I don't want it to be. In general I seek to be different than the average person because I like to stand out...but at times it can be a lonely experience (which I expressed in my 2nd post).

Arg.

NonDrinker: Sorry, but I've noticed that the majority of the time they act like they are more superior than others. Plus, I like to go out ever so often and drink, just wouldn't work with my lifestyle.

NonDruggie: Don't mind this.

Virgin: Err....no. I figure that once a guy gets the "taste" of it, he's gonna want to sow his seeds and not stay faithful.

Wow! That's the first time, I've heard that reason. What causes you to draw that conclusion? Because I've heard more people say the opposite...the guy would end up becoming to clingy.

I beg to differ!

Although I think your desire to avoid STDs and pregnancy is admirable, there's a lot of ground between the person you're going to marry and a random hookup.

That said, if I were 21, I would find the concept of the "right person" terrifying, because at 21, that was possibly the last thing on my mind. I don't think most 21-year-olds are thinking about finding the "right person." Also, I would suspect that most people who have that mindset have it as the result of long-term Christian values -- fine if that's your thing, but it's not something that I would find appealing in a guy.

Also, and I don't think anyone else has mentioned this -- to many, many, many people, sex is very, very, very important. Some people have good, um, chemistry -- and some don't. If sex is very important to a person, he or she might not think it's a good idea to wait a long time to have sex with someone -- if it's terrible, you've wasted a lot of time. Of course, that's not true if you don't consider sex to be very important -- and I'd wager that most people who don't consider sex important have never had it, have had bad sex, or just don't have much a sex drive.

Well its hard for me to comment on the majority of the last part of your post due to my inexperience, but I do agree that sex does seem to be very, very, very important to a lot of people and that's why I said in the beginning being different can suck sometimes. There is no standard 21 year old state of mind...in fact I have friends in serious long term relationships. I guess if we were to look at it the way you stated though, you could say that I'm ahead of my time perhaps or just unique (which what I seek to be). Why wouldn't you find a guy with Christian values appealing?

Well, I personally don't think there's any such thing as "god," so I'd have a hard time being in a serious relationship with someone who did and who lived his life accordingly. Of course, I'm in the minority in this country in that respect, so my opinion isn't terribly relevant to you.

The funny thing is that a lot of people are claiming that sober virgins are preachy and judgemental. Take a step back and look at what you're doing. He has not presented himself as judgemental, though you jumped on one phrase in ONE reply. Yet you are judging him and people like him!

Hello!
Logic train.. it went that way.. hop on board.

Assuming that any 21 year old who's a virgin is gay, repressed, hyper-religious, or going to hump anything that moves after the first time is STUPID.

Just as you would hope a guy you meet wouldn't look at your sexual past and go "UGH" you really shouldn't do the same to him.

Seeing yourself in a long term relationship is exactly when sex should occur. Sex is basically the most vulnerable moment in your life. The time when a laugh can crush you, and when you are emotionally and physically naked in front of your partner. There's no way in HELL I'm doing that with someone I don't trust completely.

And if I broke up with my current long term boyfriend, I would have to get to know someone very well before I'd take that chance.

/Your results may vary
//Psychology of Sex is a FUN class

WTF? He asked for opinions. He's getting them. What's the problem? If he's bothered by what anybody is saying, he's perfectly capable of saying so himself.

It's great if you think that "Seeing yourself in a long term relationship is exactly when sex should occur." It's not great if you're going to blast people for giving opinions that were REQUESTED because you're defensive. If you're not defensive, why else would you respond like this? Everybody has an opinion on the issue of sex/drinking/drug use and in this thread, people have expressed those opinions. Why go into attack mode?

Ummm...calm down chica. lol

But, I do agree that sex is one of the most vulnerable moments in your life, where you don't have much control. So is being high or wasted. Or flying, lol.

Because some people actually like it. They aren't drinking because they need to. They are drinking because they like to. It's like having the second piece of cake. You don't need it, but you want it because it tastes good.

Do we really need to paste a disclaimer at the top of all of our posts saying "THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION"?? Is it really that hard to recognize??

Nope, not at all.

I do not drink (have never drank), do not smoke (have never smoked) and do not do drugs. My boyfriend is the same exact way. A lot of my friends are the same exact way. It isn't a religious conviction, more subculture movement, called Straightedge (sXe or Straight Edge or xStraightxEdgex or one of a million other ways to put it). Rather than get into the long, drawn out explaination, here's the simplified version from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge

Everyone's got their own reasons for their actions. My claiming Straightedge has been a guiding force in my life...the people I've met through edge and punk have been incrdibly supportive through some of the lowest points of my life. In many ways, it was that fraternity that made me the way I am.

.."two roads diverged in a wood, and I? I took the one less traveled by."

Because I feel like you guys are on the attack for someone who chooses not to do the same thing you do. I feel like the judging is hypocritical. For someone to get all uptight about a guy not having sex, and be offended if anyone questions if what they do is right.... is just silly.

I blame extra anger on the lack of sleep...but..

The long term relationship thing isn't really a belief. We studied this stuff in my psych class. Psychology is never definate like "hard" science, but it does show trends and such. Hence my statements on vulnerability, etc...

I notice people who tend to get upset about those who Don't drink/do drugs/have sex, seem to think that by the very nature of someone NOT doing these things, THEY are being judged... so they go on the defensive.

He asked a question with very few details. We answered. He then asked why. We answered. It seemed to be a decent conversation until the those-who-shall-post-in-every-single-thread club-and-turn-it-into-their-own-thread decided to show up.

Funny how the people you're talking about had 5 of the first 10 posts on this thread, where you claim it was decent conversation. And I don't see ANY off topic posts until the one quoted above. I didn't realize that we can't even post ON TOPIC anymore without being criticized. Sorry.:rolleyes:

OMG, you are not actually complaining about this.

Seriously, you can't be that petty.

Like I said in my latest post, I was tired last night, and excessively upset about it.

I STILL think it's hypocritical... that doesn't make it less of a conversation. And the I do believe that I posted earlier as well.

The ONLY post not directly on topic was Alphafrog asking if we really need to post "THIS IS MY OPINION" on every post. Heck I posted "Your results may vary" which was in my eyes the same thing, and that didn't matter either. OH wait, the other off topic post was your insult.

kddani, You may be a moderator and you may be a lawyer, but that does not excuse what seems to be an intent to personally attack me or any other member of this message board. You seem to have a grudge against us. While I'm sure you won't allow it to affect your moderating responsibilities I think that you need to understand that we are not doing anything wrong or ruining any threads. If you want to find a "ruined" thread, look at "Top Greek Schools" and that STUPID sidekick thread in Alpha Delta Phi Society...

Those are BAD threads. This wasn't one.

LOL.

-RC
--Trust me, you don't want to get academic with me, sister!

Don't laugh at me... you'll be a thread ruin-er too!

ZOMG RUN FOR THE HILLS!

Does that mean I can laugh at you, because I'm already a thread ruin-er?

Hahahaha.

:D

- As for the OP, I agree with what has already been said. You posted a question and were given honest answers. What's the further discussion/debate about? I understand that u want to further explore the topic, but ultimately you can't be right for everybody. A good number of people have said that you sound like a great catch. You should focus your energy on finding the girls that feel this same way in your everyday life. Its a waste of your time to go over why others who aren't interested in you feel the way that they do. There will always be someone who isn't feeling you, and its their right to feel this way...just 'cause.

Note that I was also laughing because your post read like a justification for your own decisions . . . just saying.

Seriously, I took the OP's posts as consistently 'defending' his own status, even when he wasn't 'under fire' - from that regard, I can see where people may get to the word 'preachy,' know what I mean? Past that, I think Marie is right - some will be OK with it, many will not. The OP said it himself: sex is important to some people, and it's universally considered a key factor in relationship viability (again, from an academic standpoint) - for that reason, I think you're going to have to actively seek out those you're looking for.

That's good, though - it's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase.

I think the problem is that this is such a personal issue, and when people put in their 2 cents either direction, it can come off as preachy, or easily rub someone the wrong way. People on one side automatically assume that those who are "clean cut" are preaching to them to be "clean cut" also, and that can lead them to defend themselves to the point that the person who is "clean cut" feels they are being preached to about why their choices are wrong.

I understand that. I don't drink and feel no need to defend that. I think drugs are dumb and feel no need to defend that.

I'm going to come right out on the sex thing.

I was a "wait til marriage" girl and it turned into a "wait for the right person" thing. Well I found him. And Idon't think there's anything wrong with that either.

I think both sides assume that the other is preaching.. what Alphafrog said...

I don't think any of us were preaching to the OP. He asked a question and we answered, then he asked us more questions and we answered those. The "preaching" part came up as a reason some of us would be apprehensive to get involved with a person with the qualities he mentioned.

I'm not just talking about in this thread, though it does apply here too. Sounds like you're preaching that a 21 year old male should be having sex and drinking... or there's something wrong with him.

That's as stupid as me saying that a 21 year old male who's having sex and drinking has something wrong with him.

Non-drinkers get preached to frequently... and I've never been one to preach to my friends about it.

No, that's not what we were doing. He asked whether women would think he was lame and we gave an answer. I don't think anyone should have to say they would like something in a man just to make him feel better when he asked why we would/wouldn't date a guy with his characteristics. All of it relates to personal choices and none of it was preaching to him.

Like I said, I'm not just talking here. Several people took his comments as "preaching" when they really weren't.. just sharing his views.

That's the exact same thing you're saying to me now...

And you don't see how both sides could feel preached to?

Honestly... he asked for it literally(I don't mean that in a fighting, negative way). He asked for opinions. We gave them. He then asked questions of WHY, opening himself up to what you're calling "preaching" from our side.

I see your point I just don't think that was happening here.

The thing is, you aren't in charge of interpreting his statements for the rest of us. If anything he posted came off as "preaching" to anybody else, I don't see how that's your concern.

It's abundantly clear that you agree with what he's saying and you feel that anybody who considers what he's said to be "preaching" is attacking you personally. Nobody is attacking you or your beliefs about sex and relationships, aiight?

No, I don't feel like that. Please don't interpret my statements :p

I'm simply saying that You thought he was preaching. And you don't seem to see how I could view things others say as preaching.

The thing is, you aren't the OP in this thread....so if you're personalizing things that aren't directed at you then there's really nothing anyone can do about it.

Oy.
I'm not personalizing things not directed at me

I
am
simply
stating
that
both
sides
of
this
dicussion
can
feel
preached
at

Here you said something more than "both sides of this discussion can feel preached at" (that's kind of a "duh" statement, isn't it?) -- you said he was not preaching. If "both sides can feel preached at," your determination that the OP was not "preaching" isn't relevant to those who thought he was, is it?

Valkyrie.. exactly how many times have you told someone that their opinion was irrelevant today? You keep referencing the OP and keep dragging it further and further away.

I Don't Know HOW MORE NON-CONFRONTATIONAL I CAN MAKE MY COMMENTS FOR YOU TO GET IT

/Thank you decider-of-relevancy

I love guys like that. Don't get wasted so actually remember things, didn't sleep with half the campus!!! I don't think it is lame at all.

I don't know. How many times have I?

ALSO, TYPING IN ALL CAPS TOTALLY MAKES YOU COME OFF AS LESS CONFRONTATIONAL THAN YOU DID BEFORE.

Nobody used this exact tone - some noted, in effect, that if a 21 yr old male does not do those things, he's not right for THEM . . . but, again, I'm sure you're more than accepting of people sharing their views, right? Since you're noting that's what the OP is doing, and all . . .

Agreed - and no one has done either, luckily.

This is similar to what I was noting before - both about your posts, and OP's. I'm not claiming anyone is 'personalizing' anything - I don't really even know what that means, and I'm a pretty smart guy - but instead, I'll note that posters are 'defending' their views (not that you're being defensive, just that you're creating a defensible position), when no one (except the OP) is asking or forcing them to. (Also - kudos to the OP for being about as level about these inquiries as possible.)

Non-drinkers may or may not get preached to . . . you may or may not get preached to . . . you may or may not do the preaching. I'm not quite sure what it all means, but I'm pretty sure that arguing in tautologies isn't really productive here, since it seems to be leading to a communication gap whereby you think you're not being confrontational, but you're confronting views and opinions that aren't really being expressed or imposed.

:rolleyes:

Sometimes yelling is the only way to get one's point across. Feel free to continue and get upset over what I'm not saying valkyrie

I get what you're saying KSig RC, and though no one said exactly that, it was sort of implied. My only real peeve is when people assume that by not drinking or whatever you're judging them and thus whatever you say to them is preaching.

Wine&SilverBlue said it perfectly, you should be looking at the reasons.

Valkyrie will continue to ignore the fact that I'm only trying to make one simple statement.

/Several times actually.