Which is why I referred to others saying "all the rights and privileges of initiated members . . . except for participation in ritual activity prior to initiation."

I've got no real argument with what you said, and as I noted, I was merely reflecting what I have seen some NPC org members post here. I still thinks it's a quite a difference -- it frankly seems odd to me for persons not yet initiated to have any rights and privileges of membership.

I would like to see links to where you saw people saying that actually...I can't imagine someone getting voted into an office that was still a pledge unless the chapter was super small or recolonizing.

New Member Education: What do you think?, Page 1, fifth post (by adpiucf): "In ADPi, new members hold all the same privileges as initated members, except that they do not participate in ritual until their initaition. Otherwise, they may attend meetings, vote, hold office, wear letters and enjoy all the other rights and whatnot accorded to any member."

I've Had It!, Page 15, fourteenth post (by AXO Alum): "Guess this is because Alpha Chi Omega DOES NOT ALLOW us to have distinctions between SISTERS and NEW MEMBERS ("pledges" huh - hmmm...NPC had a statement about that somewhere....now where is it....I'm looking for it...). It is stated in our constitution and by-laws that once that bid card is signed, then you are considered a SISTER with the same rights and privileges as any other sister. The ONLY exception is that they don't know ritual. PERIOD."

OK then, I'll put this to adpiucf and AXO Alum - has there ever been an instance in either of your groups of an uninitiated member holding an office (other than an office in her pledge class)?

LXA uses New Associate. They are not due Members until Intiation into Our Ritual.

"Pledge" was dropped because it gave a conotation of Servitude.

With todays R M, the smart thing to do is go with the flow.

Do it first.

If You are not sure what Your Insurance Costs are then get off of You dead rears and check to see.

If You do not think that this money could be put to better useage for You Chapter, think again!

I'm confused...since when did changing the language of a chapter programming area ever lower insurance? If you called risky, unregulated, and unregistered illegal parties where underage kids drank...oh I don't know...say you called them "study hours"? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't lower anyone's insurance. It's the activity that's the issue, not the word. Oh, and if our organizations always went with the flow we would be exinct by now.

No knock intended towards you Tom, or to LXA. I agree that changes need to be made...but we cannot and should not just get by through changing the lingo. And I've maintained that fixing the real issues will allow us to use whatever terms we wish (within common sense reasoning).

"Pledge" is not a curse word in a chapter or even a campus Greek System that has its act together. And postive acts are the best argument against the press' or public's negative and ignorant stereotyping.