(Soror this reply is to the thread not you, I was just quoting you because I agree with some of what your saying)

However I don't think we should just be like hey world come on in, the problem is more the way our system is designed. I guess growing up in California, my grandparents coming from Cuba and teaching in Houston makes me slightly more exposed than the average individual to this issue. I agree that illegal immigration is the problem, but the solution is not complainig about these people wanting a free handout, please I am sure that based on only my experiences that I'd rather Jose's kids get WIC, while he works 16 hours a day than Sally Sue trailer trash who smokes Marlboros all day with no job. Please people where are these jobs immiigrants have we as Americans want? I don't want to clean a house, fix a roof or prepare Big Macs, yes as an American I do not want to do those things, period. :p

BTW where is my pie? I missed my slice :confused:

it's an impossible problem to solve. giving the undocumented immigrants all amnesty is a slap in the face of every single naturalized american citizen in the country. however, a mass deportation is logistically impossible.

I agree, and it will eventually "solve" itself. Mainly by continuing to be this way it is now. The census predicts that Hispanic (who are not all the illegal immigrants) will be the almost on their way to being the majority by 2050.

Me neither to those jobs lol:) And I'll send you some pie Soror lol May take a while coming from the BA:D

If someone can afford the price of a airline ticket and a passport from their country of origin to get here, all they have to do is overstay on their visas. I'm not aware of there being enough peoplepower to track everyone of them down. I still can't bring myself to see the 9/11 movie.

Isn't it a felony in Mexico if you're caught entering the country illegally? Why can't the U.S. do the same? Is it a felony if you enter Canada illegally?

Co-sign.

Co-sign.

I can understand both sides of the debate. But to be quite honest, I do see the need to control the borders for security purposes and enforcing the law (because I know how hard it is to get proper documentation) and all the good stuff. But I still think this country was formed based on Illegal immigration. The land still doesn't belong to its rightful owners..but I digress..

The problem is that Sally Sue and Jose both d not deserve the aid they get. Where are the jobs illegals are taking once held by Americans? Masonary, concrete, carpentry, factory work, meat packing, chemical batching, surveying, plumbing,transportation warehousing, assembly,... in fact every where except enginnering, medicine, and jobs which require citizenship. Yet even though employers overhead costs go down, we don't see the savings passed on to the public; what we see instead in a steady erosion of over taxed schools and health care system that has to pay for illegals who don't pay taxes. Its time for them to go.

I agree - so many have gone the legal route; it's not easy, but they've done it.

There wasn't much of a protest in Boston, not nearly as large in numbers as I thought. The biggest protest of the day was dealing with a union issue at Harvard.

I think the laws should be the same for ALL immigrants and I think that ALL immigrants should follow the law. However, don't think that it should be easy because anything worth having is worth fighting for. The fact that the immigrant population is organized and fighting for reform is a good thing BUT the illegals need to get it together and follow whatever legislative changes are put in place; I do NOT agree with legalizing immigrants just because they made it here.

I agree that the process to become a citizen shouldn't necessarily be easy by any means, but it should be more accessible to the "common person". When you have to hire an attorney to complete the process, I believe it is way to complicated, and it puts it out of reach for many people.

Aside from being documented entering the country? Whether you overstay your visa or just don't go back home, you're now documented as having broken the law. As opposed to Mexicans who don't exactly sign documents when they come in. Yes, there probably isn't enough manpower to track them if they come from another continent even, but there are so many illegal Mexicans here for a reason.

And to the person that said this is Karma: Karma for whom? Maybe it's karma to blacks? Maybe it's karma to descendants of native americans? Maybe it's karma to such a large population of America that came here as immigrants in the last century? Or is it karma for people who had ancestors that did the wrongs and somehow it got passed down? If it were the case that karma got passed down like that, I don't know of a single population that wouldn't be screwed at this point.

Which country just opens their doors and tells people to come in?

Should we just let everyone from Mexico in and leave Mexico empty?

I learned the language here and got an American citizenship. I pay my taxes (high taxes I might add) and contribute to this country. It is beyond a slap in the face to tell me that all my efforts were for naught as I could have just come here in a crowded van wearing a sombrero without papers and gone about my business.

-Rudey

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/04/us...rtner=homepage

"Growing Unease for Some Blacks on Immigration"

It's a good article worth the read.

-Rudey

My question is ...how are these illegal immigrants obtaining apartments, jobs, cars, etc....just curious...

Illegally with the help of some greedy unscrupulous citizens

Because you have businesses/people that are willing to do business with them. All they see is **GREEN**

Plus their are loopholes. In most states, you don't need a liscense to buy a car (especially if you're paying cash),. Places like SallieMae, Freddie Mac and banks DO give out home loans to undocumented/illegal immigrants.

You'd be surprise......as they say, "money talks"

La Raza.

-Rudey

Jobs are probably the easiest; there are plenty of business owners who are willing to pay small wages without insurance or any of the other costs. Employing an illegal immigrant is one way to do this.

One point it missed was its not Immigration that has caused unease its ILLEGAL Immigration. The Times somehow fails to make the crucial distinction

Out here in Kollyfornia, pooling money and sticking together pays off. It is not unusual to see Latinos, whether here legally or not, live two and three families to a residence so one fam can save money and branch out.

This is true. I think people somehow keep forgetting that. It's as if once you oppose illegal immigration, people just think you oppose legal immigration as well.

-Rudey

BUT, they will give a Bumqueesha or De'Ante (hard working, honest citizens) a hard time when they try to obtain a home loan.

Also, some illegal immigrants find shelter with their legal family members. They sometimes 2 or more families residing in one home.

ETA: as was already mentioned...

But is that legal? Could you or I do that and not get prosecuted by a slew of city, county and state agencies?

That prediction is dead-on and definitely will come true in California before 2050. I live in OC, which is considered the bastion of Caucasians, but the Latino population is closing in fast.

I am not a lawyer or a homeowner, so take this with a grain of salt.

Some communities have passed ordinances restricting the number of people who can live in a house. On the other hand, many municipalities have very limited resources in terms of enforcement of things and prefer to concentrate on violent crime, if you're going to use police.

And the only way you can get a homeowner out of a house, I'd think, is through foreclosure.
:confused:

That's why the establishment of the Tri-Caucus will be very interesting if all groups can unite locally, first Af Ams need to be on one accord.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ghlight=caucus

You're are right. In addition, I know most apartment complexes have restrictions as to how many people can live in an apartment (ex. no more than 2 in a one bedroom, etc.) as well.

Wow, another post that I agree with from Rudey :eek:

TRUE! BUT, do they really enforce the law(s)? Background checks are also required, but if those who actually submitted the information don't live in the apartment (took the test on behalf of others), how will the management know that?

There are always ways of getting around these things. Is it that serious? I guess for some, it really is.

My neighbors (from another country), in college had 4 or 5 guys living in a 2BR/1BA. :eek:

I'm sure its never enforced, unless someone turns them in to management.

LOL @ the 4/5 dudes sharing a 2BR/1BA - but I've seen it happend before in college too!

That could very well be true where you live, but here through imminent (sic) domain, or if your home is adjudged to be a community and/or health risk, it may be confiscated.

I tend to agree with this line of thinking. How can you possibly believe that as an illegal immigrant you have the same rights as a legal citizen or resident? People in jail do not have the same rights as folks who are free. Even after being released, some don't have the civil rights as other free folks.

I get that people feel like we could change the immigration laws, but change them to what? We don't have enough resources to cover our own but people think we need to have a free for all and leave any and everybody in? I am not sure what all the process entails, but I've heard some rough things, yet and still people pay the thousands, spend hours reading and signing paperwork and get through it. You're being let into a country, not a social activity, it should be difficult.

This thread is very interesting. There is so much to touch on. There are many things I agree with as well as disagree with. The topic at hand does deal with immigration as a whole. The topic ended up steming from the mexican boycott. I do agree with what AlphaFrog said concerning turning the topic into a black issue. This also supports other things she brought up in another thread. It's all in how you word things and relate them to the topic at hand.

I do also agree with people fighting for what they believe in. Some laws have been changed due to peoples opinions being voiced on what they feel is right and wrong. African Americans marched in their own country for equal rights. Illegal immigrants come to ours demanding rights when they are not even supposed to be here. There is a huge difference. I totally agree with Rudey's comments, and that does not scare me. He makes some valid points.

I feel that they can strike all they want to. US citizens that want to work and can't find a job would be happy to fill those positions. I'm sure people felt the impact, but trouble don't last always. All these illegal immigrants getting jobs, apartments, and loans, yet some US citizens have the hardest time obtaining those things. Overall, security should be tighter and laws should be followed.

Easy breezy is an understatement considering the daily freeway issues in So Cal. I couldn't believe it. 6:00 p.m. on Monday from UCLA to (not so far) UCLA family housing, which I might add houses a sh__load of KNOWN illegal Asian immigrants (moms and pops come into the apartments to help the son graduate medical/dental school and help the stay-at-home wife take care of the children...let my mama come up in here, it'll be ON!!!...but I digress)...this trip normally takes at least 30 minutes even though it's only 5 miles away. Hmph! Took me 3 minutes to get home, literally.

We'll see what happens on the 15th and the 19th

No, the highly skilled tech jobs and healthcare jobs go to the Asian immigrants... Some who overstayed their visas and have kids who were born here--meaning legal citizens of the United States...

How do folks separate families? Kids born as citizens of the United States, but Mom and Dad are here illegally... Or like a Vietnamese co-worker who is NOT a US citizen said, her dad fought with the Americans in the Vietnam war... The Americans OWED him a decent life or livelihood. He brought his immediate family when the helicopters took off. They lived is SoCal refugee camps for the years they had them, then they eventually moved into an apartment complex... The kids attended school, became educated at US universities, just never became legal citizens...

Now, I ain't paying for a free ride ticket for someone to go back to Asia or any long distance location, including Mexico City... I'd rather go there myself...

So wouldn't it just be cheaper if we brought our Iraqi troops home for a bit, let them re-group, get the battle groups out there, invoke Manifest Destiny and have the Spanish American War again? That's the way it was done long time ago? We take back some of the lands we confiscated in the first place. We'd get rid of Castro and his bunch rather than waiting for him to die...

Oh yeah, I forgot, the UN would have problems with that... Countries like that are not allowed to invade other countries without going to the Hague... That's how WWII got started...

Oh y'all better believe this has the 3rd Reich of Karl Rove written all over it... Not about protecting the president... More about getting a full Republican congress re-elected again because with all the EFF ups done toward US citizens lately, folks are asking why the HAYLE should I vote your ass again? Purely propaganda...

Bush couldn't give a rat's ass about immigration, illegal or not. He's best buds with Vicente... He could care less what the American people think, he knows he can't be president anymore, so why should he care?

This is about congress pure and simple... And AlphaFrog, in my opinion it does turn into a EFF-ed up racial issue 'cuz it is almost forcing Black folks to choose sides... Be out on the side of the immigrants (legal or not) who are using similar tactics as the old civil rights movement with a sprinkling of Caesar Chavez mixed up in there and La Raza vs. cowboy up with some Kard Karry Kinds that would commit genocide at the US-Mexico border if they could...

I ain't gonna choose sides... If anything, I choose my side or at least the side of the First Nations (Native Americans - Indians Gaming)... And let the gaming begin... They the only folks who stand to make money off of this deal with Pai Gow and all the chit... Although Tijuana has the Caliente line... I'm tellin' yah, if the Navajo Nation steps up and flexes their muscles in New Mexico, there ain't much the US government is gonna be able to do 'bout that... Yeah, like send bunker busters to New Mexico on US soil... That'll be a waste...

I tend to agree with most people here. I had this argument with my sister the other day. She accused me of being a biggot because she failed to realize that the controversy was about ILLEGAL immagrantion and not immgration as a whole. I'm all for immigration...it's just when people come here illegally, I see a problem.

If those who immigrate here feel the red tape one has to go through to become a legal citizen is too thick, then by all means, work on a way to reform them by the political process (without taking away from the purpose of a citizenship process). But to simply grant all illegals here citizenship is not only a slap in the face to those who've gone through the legal process but seems intellectually lazy to me.

I respect the right to protest...It seems only right to protest when you feel you are being short-sided. But illegal immigrants protesting seems ironic to me: people who are not paying taxes into the system are protesting so that they can reap the benefits of that system :confused:

I'm also tired of having illegal immigration issues tied to those of the African American community. My ancestors did not immigrate here....they had little choice in the matter. Although I sympathize with any group of people trying to make a better life for themselves, I believe they should do it within the legal system.

I don't quite understand your post.Your facts ae seriously distorted or is the post in jest?

There is a common misconception among the public that such citizenship is a Constitutional guarantee. The fact is that the constitutional question of whether the 14th amendment grants citizenship to children of foreigners born on U.S. soil was addressed by the Supreme Court over 100 years ago in the Slaughter House Cases and, again, in 1971 in the case of Rogers v. Bellei. All existing case law confirms that the Fourteenth Amendment does not automatically grant citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants

My father and many others fought for the Viet Namese to keep their country from being overrun.
It was the Mexican War in which the term Manifest Destiny was first used (not the Spainish-American War). All the "confiscate" land was paid for and the Mexican citizens re-patriated as Americans.
AS to the Spainish American War, Cuba, Puerto Rico, were liberated from Spain. Cuba becoing independant and PR becoming a US Common Weal.
The UN was not established until 1945 after the close of WWII.

Can you say that once more so that folks understand... You may want to expound upon how you have come to know that information or at least provide links to where you are getting your information so that folks can make their own investigation. Because you are right, there is that misconception of being born on US soil and either being a citizen or not. And that is how those who are trying to be re-elected in congress are spinning it as a "wedge issue" between various groups of people... The key is to stay informed...


You are right, got some of my history dates and fact confused. However lands were owned by the United States at one time or another. But because the US efforts were placed elsewhere at onetime or another, somehow, "border lines" got blurred...

As far as Mexican citizen repatriated as US citizens... That depends on how low folks wanted to go to become US citizens. They allowed their families to be separated by a "ditch" if you have EVER seen the Mexican Border Crossings in the Desert - I have an know several people that have made that illegal cross, some of them children. My question to the group is that fair to the children? Because that is all I care about, the children...

Part of the UN charter is to no ever allow complete invasion into another country without provocation like Hitler did with Nazi Germany... Any country that invades a defenseless country to "expand" will be prosecuted by International Court under War Crimes Tribunals at the Hague...

The Hague folks were trying to prosecute Milosevic under those clauses, but he died under mysterious circumstances, although "they said" that is was a heart attack and that might be actually true. But there are some poisons out there that can be made to look like folks died of "natural causes" and they actually do not...

I’ve been gone for a little while, feels good to be back!
I love seeing intellectually stimulating conversation topics such as this one on the boards.
However, I must say that I find that one of the most recognizable misconceptions is the assumption that immigrants that are protesting and that this bill is affecting are Mexicans, the primary reason for the uproar is the fact that when we refer to immigrants, we’re referring to everyone from another country; Africans, Asians, Europeans, Australians, Islanders/West Indies, South Americans, and the list goes on... (Sidebar: The reason I say this is because there are a lot of posts referring to Mexicans.)

Then there’s the rippling effect. There are American Citizens who have earned their right, whereas they may have relatives who have not. Since non citizens may have been in the country for most of their lives, they eventually begin to feel that they are entitled to the rights of a US citizen, and that’s where the problem is evolving from. They have gotten by for so long that now that there is a threat, there will be uproar.

I know of many people who were caught up in that situation and have been deported. I was almost in the same situation. Although immigrants may have built this country, time changes and so does the laws. That’s one of the reasons it’s crucial that we be more active and involved in our legislative decisions. The bottom line is that there is a process that everyone needs to go through to become a “naturalized” citizen if you are not a “born” citizen. It’s a hard one, but it’s the law of the land you choose to live in.