Whether somebody is legally an adult or not, by the time she goes off to college, she should be capable of functioning as a reasonable human and if she isn't, it's really too late for her parents to sue if she does something stupid.

natalie holloway was 17, on a freaking UNSUPERVISED trip to Aruba with friends her age. what parent lets their underage daughter travel out of the country UNSUPERVISED? not to sound insensitive, but did her parents expect 100% safety? (not that she deserved it, but i get really POed re: this case. her parents are just as responsible as she and her friends were)

a little different than 18-21 year-old girls/women living on a (hopefully) security-protected campus.

i've only lived in co-ed housing with NO visitation rules/nighttime curfews (our strictest rule is: no overnight guests more than 3 nights in a row, which is nothing compared to what im hearing).

even though our school seems to be lax with these dorm rules, our school (and staff) understands that 18-21 year olds are on a continuum of adultness and don't always know what is best in protecting themselves. however, if you are at a school like NYU, you better learn it quick--this city aint for no punks.

if someone is clearly drunk or seems hazardous in anyway, they are not allowed to be signed into the building. repeat offenders are PNG'd from the building (meaning they are legally bound by that law and can be arrested for stepping foot in the building).

How is a school sponsered trip with chaperones an unsupervised trip?

You didn't have a guest limit? At my alma mater, we weren't allowed to have more than 2 guests per roommate (so even when I had a huge single room (that used to be a double), I wasn't allowed to have 3+ guests). That included people who lived in your building. We also weren't allowed to have overnight guests for more than 3 days nor were we allowed to have beer bottles if we were legal (though wine and spirit bottles were allowed).

it was an "unofficial" school trip. okay, there were seven "chaperones," and that is debatable, either put in quotes, or questioned by news coverage. which leads me to believe it wasn't as supervised as it couldve been. and come on, 7 chaperones for 125 students? thats around 17 students per chaperone for an overseas trip.

EVERYONE i know who's gone on an "unofficial" school trip is doing so because:

1. the trip the school is providing is corny or unaffordable,
2. the school isnt offering a trip
3. the trip being provided is SUPERVISED and therefore will not have the leeway to do whatever they please.

(i say this with common sense and being a former senior class president.)

(p.s. let's not let this thread get off-track and then shut down, though i know it's my responsibility for bringing it back up)

guest limit is 3 per person. so you could legally have 6-15 people in a given room/suite in a freshmen hall. now if youre in an upperclass 11-person suite, well, you could get quite a party started.

and everyone gets around the sign-in policy, they just have roommates, friends or floormates sign in extra people in.

11-person suite?! That's crazy.

Contrary to what a lot of people are saying, a lot of these rules aren't in place because of legalities or protection. Many of these rules are about our notions of gender in this society. Legalities and protection tend to be merely post hoc justifications for the rules. When these rules were passed, and the fact that they are still in place, often reflects how little "gender roles" have changed.

The same applies to university co-ed housing and coordinate systems.

Not a greek school but:

the University of Notre Dame in South Bend, IN still has parietal hours for both men and women. All their dorms not only are single-sex, but each has a chapel as well.

Marquete also has this. It's very common at Catholic schools and not ridiculous according to Catholic doctrine.

I realize that the rules in my sorority house probably seemed stupid to some people--especially the "no guys upstairs" rule--but I really liked it. It was really nice to be able to walk to and from the bathroom in your robe and not worry about some strange dude running down the hallway. The house was also a lot quieter than the dorm, too, if you get my drift. :p My parents loved the fact that I lived there, too, because they knew our house mom was very vigilant about rules being followed and whatnot.

Now, the dorms on the other hand...I lived in all-girl dorms my first two years at school, and their rules were a lot stricter than the coed dorms. Oh, sure, the coed dorms had "rules" about signing in guests and no overnight guests and whatever, but nobody really cared. I'm glad I never lived in one of those, though, because no matter what the bathrooms were always filthy--even on the girls' floors. I liked my all-girl dorms' spotlessly clean bathrooms just fine.

I guess the bottom line is, yes, college students might be technically adults, but there's nothing wrong with having to live with rules. There are rules in every other part of life, and we just have to deal with it and go on. I'm not saying I didn't bend the rules a time or two, but for the most part I liked knowing that just any random person wouldn't be wandering around outside my door. Besides, there usually isn't any shortage of places around campus to do what your dorm won't allow you to do (drink, be someone's overnight guest, whatever).

Yes, she should. However, in a litigous (no clue how that's spelled) society, her parents have the right and ability to sue whoever they want if something happens.

I believe when you join a sorority, you should accept those rules. Girls who go to all-girls schools like Smith College or Mt. Holyoke don't complain that boys aren't in their classrooms because that is essentially why they joined an all-girl school....isn't that part of the reason you joined a sorority, to focus on making connections with people of the same-sex?

A lot of the dorms on military bases have these rules, plus some. In some dorms people of the opposite sex are not allowed entrance at all. I had to take inventory (tv's, dvd players, microwaves)once at a female dorm with CQ escorting me the entire time, announcing the fact that a male was in the building everytime we entered a floor. Also, not going to say where or when but I know one female dorm that had to move all of their girls off of the first floor because of guys sneaking in through the windows at night.

We're not talking all kids here either, some of the people that have to follow these rules are anywhere from 18-50 years old.

I'm curious if other NPCs allow individual chapters to propose chapter-specific "parietals"? I believe (it's been awhile since I read up on it) that our individual chapters can propose their own rules for approval by higher-ups. I believe there is also an agreement standard (maybe even 100 percent of house occupants) before the proposed rules can even be submitted for approval (which speaks to the consideration/comfort-level aspect of these rules).

Also, has anyone compared inter/national sororities' insurance rates with the fraternities'? I think you'd be staggered, and it's in a large part due to rules like these.

Two other random comments:
-with regard to differing legalities in Canada, I would assume most groups' laws are written with language referencing "local, state/province, federal laws", rather than to specific ages (for instance).

-It's important to remember that not all of our members (even all of our chapter officers or advisers) are accurately versed in our inter/national laws. Many, many people will quote things as laws of "Nationals" that really aren't (or that are inaccurate or are chapter rules). From the outside, you'll never know. From the inside, be sure you have access to your organization's laws so you can verify for yourself.

Good discussion.

I was 17 and went to Acapulco on an unsupervised senior trip.

Some women's colleges do allow men in the classroom if they're cross-registering from other schools.

Originally posted by sororityGaL123
I believe when you join a sorority, you should accept those rules. Girls who go to all-girls schools like Smith College or Mt. Holyoke don't complain that boys aren't in their classrooms because that is essentially why they joined an all-girl school....isn't that part of the reason you joined a sorority, to focus on making connections with people of the same-sex? Smith and Mt. Holyoke are part of the 5 college consortium that also includes Amherst College, Hampshire College and the University of Massaschusetts at Amherst.

Wow.

This wasn't a school sponsored trip?

Nope, school didn't want to be involved. So the homies made the arrangements, my mom's asked how much it was and wrote the check.

Wow...and my friends and I nixed the idea of Beach Week for our hs seniors.

Whats the difference between this and normal HS spring break? I know a lot kids from my school who went to Mexico unsupervised.

1. Its just for seniors, hence SENIOR TRIP.

2. Sorry, I didn't have funds like this for my other spring breaks...damn my parents for being middle class! :rolleyes:

That isn't something that kids at my high school were afforded the opportunity to do.

Either case, my parents didn't allow me to be at an unsupervised ANYTHING. Thank God for that. :)

I don't know where you live, but I know that a lot of hs seniors in the South go to the Islands or Mexico for Spring Break.

On the other hand, we went to New York City, and had more of a cultural break - Broadway Shows, ballets, symphonies, and a Shakespearan play. Did I mention shopping? Anyhow, many of us who did the yearly NYC trip ended up living there for a while, or at least being comfortable with visiting often.

Somehow, I don't feel robbed - although I do wish we had done DC at least once. I had to find that out on my own. :)

I think that considering gender norms and practices is a really good point, aside from legalities........traditions are imposed on people because of societal practices and more attention should be given to that

:)

I so disagree with this statement. First, the members make the rules, not the other way around - if the rules are found to be lame and stupid and useless by the majority of the members they should be changed. White clauses used to be "rules" too, and thank God we don't have those any more.

Yes, I joined a sorority to focus on making connections with other girls. That doesn't mean that I don't occasionally like to spend some time with a male, like an adult, not like a high schooler in my parents' house. That's like saying your kids should take precedence over your husband, because you had them, didn't you? Most sororities stress being well rounded. Women with no social lives - be they straight, gay, whatever - are not well rounded.

And to edit, that's another thing. What if you do have a sister who's gay? She can get her freak on at all hours of the day or night because she's dating another female.

I'm not sure about other sororities, but I'm sure that they must function somewhat simliarly to ADPI-- any member in good standing can propose a resolution to our bylaws. The bylaws are voted on once every 2 years at our convention.

If any member finds fault with the "ridiculous" rules, make a recommendation for an amendment. Majority rules.

Eh a lot of good discussion here but I still feel like there is a lot of people who are looking at the rules and taking their word to the extreme. I just personally feel that if I want to go see one of my friends in a sorority that I should be allowed to go up and see them. If they want to personally kick me out, then fine, but a rule stating that I can't be there because it is past a certain time is BS. I know all about parietals as well, since I have many friends that go to Providence College in RI, where they have parietals (no members of the opposite sex allowed in rooms after a certain time). Frankly, I'm glad I go to a school where that is not allowed (and no, I'm not looking for the lack of these rules to try to "get some"; my severe lack of Game doesn't allow me to even think about trying that)