I hear them poodles make great companions til you piss them off....

Re: Re: jubilance
 

Dear Jubilance:

I *heart* you.

Yours in Greekdom,
FeeFee

Re: Re: Re: jubilance
 

I second that motion!

Re: Re: jubilance
 

Your post is an important post. The issue at the root of this thread is a structural and cultural issue. It really isn't about "us" versus "them," anyway. There is no individual-level blame so it isn't about "white people" being responsible for anything.

Re: Re: jubilance
 

Yes, but you have to remember that in Erik's little world, you aren't a real fraternity/sorority and you aren't worthy of existence unless you have hundereds of members per chapter and a house.

So.True.:cool:

Re: jubilance
 

Serious questions: Can you and Tom tell me why campi is the plural of campus, as opposed to campuses? To my knowledge, campi has a completely different meaning. Also, are you and Tom the same person or closely related? :)

By the 1920s, Black Greek Lettered Organizations had been founded on both predominently black and white campuses. The number of members were growing but were still small in comparison to nonhistorically Black GLOs.

Now...what does this really have to do with anything? We know that the "whites only" clause not only excluded Blacks, but other racial and ethnic groups. The addition of the "white Christian males" also excluded nonChristians. No one ever said that Blacks were the only group excluded. The history of race and ethnicity (and religion) in this country is why the exclusion of Blacks from predominently white institutions is so salient. This history (that includes the fact that Blacks were the largest minority group until recent years) is why SOME people are skeptical over an organization like PiKA. Maybe opinions would be different if it was an organization that had a history of civil rights activism and breaking down social barriers.

Re: jubilance
 

1) Alpha Phi Alpha was founded in 1906 at Cornell University, not only a PWI but an Ivy League school.

2) Kappa Alpha Psi was founded in 1911 at Indiana University

3) The Gamma and Delta chapters of DST were chartered on PWI (University of Penn, an Ivy League school, and Iowa State, respectively) in 1914, I believe.

Next...:rolleyes:

I cant knock it at all!

Re: Re: jubilance
 

Dont kill 'em like that... lol

Re: Re: jubilance
 

I was looking it up and found this to be interesting:

http://www.earlygirl.com/vi021804.shtml

See also: http://dacnet.rice.edu/projects/ling...dex=37&Type=II

Glad to hear that they are coming along. I feel their pain on this, no one wanted us on campus when we were founded. This is due probably, b/c other orgs know they will have to compete harder for members. Not only this, but most NPHC groups want the person who might pledge to come seek them out, research their history, etc. while most, if not all 'NIC' types will have their brothers go out and actively recruit.
This is what the other frats are afraid of.

^^

Another voice of reason!! But that guys name is flounder hahah... has a ring to it prime.

They could be "afraid", but I'm not one of them so I won't speculate.

But as for the actively recruit v. let prospectives come to you debate: Its been working well for ALL the D9 orgs for almost 100 years now. There will still be men interested in D9 fraternities even if PiKA actively recruits the men in the Howard community. Each group will continue to use recruitment methods that work best for them.

I appreciated this point, not necesarily b/c it's valid point about the Pike situation at Howard but b/c it does speak to issues that are important: the role of recruitment in NPHC vs. NIC/NPC groups. True, on most campuses NPHC groups represent a "niche market" or their status is such that there is little need for more competitive means of gaining new members. Whereas, among other factors, the sheer numbers of NIC/ NPC groups demands a agressively proactive stance in recruitment, esp. when you have to maintain real property in many cases. My question is this: will there ever come a time when demographic changes and other factors demand that NPHC groups become more proactive in recruiting. I think it's a fallacy that the more proactive approach necessarily leads to weaker candidates. In fact, in some cases those who who present themselves for prospective membership are not the quality candidates one wants. About a month ago, an undergrad Omega brother at a local HBCU spoke to an audience at an Achievement Week program sponsored by my grad chapter. It was evident he was a very intelligent and talented brother--he's going places. One of his faculty mentors, a member of my grad chapter, told the audience when he got up to make his address that he and another Que faculty member recruited the young man for the undergrad chapter on campus. More of this has to happen!

campuses/campi
 

English is constantly in change. The language has undergone a
lot of change thru radio and standardization of certain words. The
campi one I had never heard of as pretentious but sometimes used instead of campuses. I use both. I have studied Latin and
have a good romance language background. There are a goodly
number of English words from Latin and we constantly mix up the
singular with the plural...like criterion, criteria; datum, data, and
so on. However, the usage of the Latin amongst educated folk
may not necessarily be "elitist," or "snobbish" and frequently the
critics of such have unlikely darkened a foreign language classroom. We go to college to somewhat upgrade ourselves,
and if that be objectionable, take a look at yourself.
Campuses and campi are both acceptable, in my opinion. But if
you do not understand the differences, don't use 'em, hoss.

Just a quick question about something I read in the article. On my campus BGLOs are very selective/exclusive. Most average 15 members. Is it the same way at Howard?

Yes they are very selective at HU. But the chapters are still sizeable, because of the number of prospects. The school actually puts a cap on the size of a pledge line. So using DST as an example, when you have 300-400 qualified (on paper) students applying and you can only take 50, then yes you have to be very selective. But even if this wasn't the case--selectivity is a cornerstone of the D9.

Notice I haven't used the term exclusive, because we do accept members reagardless of race, creed, class, etc.

OK, we've gotten the history lesson on where HBGLO's got there start and we see where many people stand on this (Congrats on APhiA and their 100 years this year.. we've also beaten the "whites only clause" issue to death as well. Here's my 2 cents on the issue.

I'm a Phi Psi. I founded my chapter at DePaul university 15 years ago and I'm a 34 year old Black Man. I'm an appointed member of my fraternity's national Executive Council and one day I will probbaly be on the short list to become President. I teach at our leadership academies and our leadership school. I can speak to exactly what it's like to be 1 man on an island. I took crap from the black kids in school for selling out and from the white kids for "trying to be white." until I told them why - i believed in what Phi Kappa Psi was telling me - just like you all did when you joined whatever group you joined. you bought it - you drank the kool aid and said, give me some letters.

I am the only male member of my family that's college educated and not an Alpha. I did that becuase I wanted to start something as opposed to join anything - i'm not a joiner; im a leader. I hope the guys they get for Pike are that way as well. At my fraternity's last 2 national conventions, i suggested that we do what Pike has now done. What saddens me is that when a predominetely white group comes on a black campus (Sigma Pi did the same thing at Middle tennessee state a few years back) the campus fights back instead of accepting that competition breeds grouwth for all. Not everyone at Howard fits the mold of the D9 - so they needed something else - I'm only upset that the something else isn't Green and Red.

To my Greek Brothers and Sisters at Howard - just becuase someone was an ass before doesn't mean they are still an ass-yeah, they were racist back in the day - every white group was, either with or without "the clause"; but give them a chance and see how they help the fabric of your campus before your castigate them for it.

Very well put. As the climate of American colleges keeps changing, fraternal groups are forced to change as well.
One can only hope that steps like this will lead to a more diverse
future, otherwise fraternal organizations will definitely suffer.

Re: campuses/campi
 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Universitätscampus Wien, Austria (details)Campus (plural: campi) is Latin for "field" or "open space". English gets the words "camp" and "campus" from this origin. In English, the plural form campuses is commonly used.

Now I can stop thinking that you and Tom are strange. Well, not completely. ;)

Re: Re: Re: jubilance
 

Very interesting, indeed. Thanks!!!

The older Sorors always tried to correct us and say that "alumnae" is pronounced "alum-knee." I guess they were wrong. HA!

Don't let me make this a Howard vs Morehouse thang
 

I don't know about all of this stuff on Howard's campus. The whole concept still looks shady to me and it has more to do with money than it has to do with brotherhood... In fact it reeks with filthy money.

I asked my husband, a bonafide Morehouse man, as was his father and his brother, about a predominantly, historical caucasian fraternity colonizing (still interesting terminology here) the Morehouse campus and he basically found it laughable and discredited it.

Now my husband is the biggest GDI I have ever seen. He hates all GLO's on a college campus and he sees no reason to have alumni chapters. Forget the fact he married me, a fully above ground pledged member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc., from Spelman College, a legacy and her father, as well as her grandfather were men of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. Moreover having an uncle, a cousin and godfather who is very famous, members of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc. So my indoctrination was in my blood. But my husband very much thinks he has the Morehouse Man Mystique. And that is how they educated the men of Morehouse versus say, Howard ;)...

But hey, what can you say about the school that educated Martin Luther King Jr. et al., and the kind of education they want the young African American men to have?

Either way, it will be interesting...

As far as my alma mater, Spelman, I can foresee a MCGLO or even a NPC sorority coming on my campus. I do not see either large organizations joining Clark Atlanta University's campus... I don't know? But I think the Rockafeller's may engender a NPC sorority becoming a part of my campus. Would folks at my school be pissed off? Probably some. However, the history of Spelman was those old caucasian ladies that were the presidents in the late 19th, early 20th centuries did not want any kind of sorority on the campus for a long time until they allowed Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. Eta Kappa chapter to be chartered--I think it was 1953? (Sorry DST ladies, you cannot pledge me now... ;))

I think the issue for some folks is that many of the "Alpha chapters" (the first chapters) for most of the D9 organizations were founded on Howard's campus. That is what is making some folks upset...

But folks will join what they think they identify with and whatever floats their boat... Hope they find happiness and joy with their own conclusions.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the clause--
 

I don't have any exams coming up, but thanks, furthermore, I was commenting on something that was said......which concerned an entire race of people that supposedly werent considered a person at one point. I don't care what you have made a career of, I can hold a conversation with you on this topic, it wouldn't be difficult. some of their problems may have been caused by their own actions, thats all I was trying to say.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the clause--
 

I know what your post was trying to get at. I am just waiting for you to tell us how this is really a response to what Jubilance was saying. Make the connection explicit if you can. ;)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the clause--
 

she was speaking for an entire group of people that she thinks went through those problems, when in actuality it was more like a specific group of blacks that endured the worst of it. i understand why they are upset, but I don't see why they should blame every part of their troubles on the white man and what they did forty and fifty years ago. some of their problems stemmed from the fact that they had no unity or resolve between their upper and lower class.

>>I'm a Phi Psi. I founded my chapter at DePaul university 15 years ago and I'm a 34 year old Black Man. I'm an appointed member of my fraternity's national Executive Council and one day I will probbaly be on the short list to become President. I teach at our leadership academies and our leadership school. I can speak to exactly what it's like to be 1 man on an island. I took crap from the black kids in school for selling out and from the white kids for "trying to be white." until I told them why - i believed in what Phi Kappa Psi was telling me - just like you all did when you joined whatever group you joined. you bought it - you drank the kool aid and said, give me some letters.

I am the only male member of my family that's college educated and not an Alpha. I did that becuase I wanted to start something as opposed to join anything - i'm not a joiner; im a leader. <<

Originally posted by PKPILZ003

Is the chapter still active and is it predominately white? I guess I was suprised that Howard had enough white men to start a chapter of a predominately white fraternity. I know the chapter will be mixed but I just can't imagine a predominately white fraternity having a black chapter

Thank You Sir for Your Post!

Howard Un. is not the first HBC College that has had non Divine 9 GLOs come to a campus.

It is the change of life that is coming across the land and it should be expected. But one of the disturbing things is that while some yell Racist and Segregation on threads, they are the ones who are complaining the most when it comes to a situation such as this.

If this thought isnt changed, then why should others change?

It has happened and will happen again. None of the ranting and raving will not change what is happening.

The reason LXA, PKA and others went to "HPC" Campuses, is because people wanted them there period. Oh, What People, The ones who petitioned them.

"they"

:o

"those people"

You dont act like You even have a clue?:(

So, where do You keep Your Naval Lint?;)

uhh, shut up twit.

Re: Re: Re: Re: jubilance
 

And PNP President Mona Bailey got the pronounciation from a college Latin Professor, so go figure. Anyway, per our P&T Manual we pronounce it to rhyme with gum tree - LOL

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: jubilance
 

LOL!!!! How come I heard that so much during MIP!!:D :D

Carry on...

WOW, I am Impressed!:rolleyes:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the clause--
 

;) This is a huge thread hijack.

In actuality, the within-group division of blacks does not negate the overall struggle of blacks (or the fact that the social structure only provided equal access to upper class blacks in certain contexts) which is why I was asking you why the distinction you made is important for the present discussion. While upper social class can buffer some of the negative effects of racism and discrimination, we aren't debating William Julius Wilson's "declining significance of race" in this thread.

The fact that the middle and upper class blacks were some of the more CREDITED individuals at the forefront of the Civil Rights Movement (meaning, they were the ones given the most credit, which doesn't mean they were the most profilic or that they were doing the grunt of the work without the help of the "lower classes") means that the struggle for equality goes past social class boundaries. It did then as it does now.

In fact, a case has been made in the literature that middle to upper class blacks dealt with racism and discrimination more frequently (while it may not have taken the form of dogs and firehoses, "enduring the most" is a matter of comparing within-group struggles---not a fruitful endeavor) because they mingled in white social, economic, and educational networks more often. This gave them greater opportunity to be singled out whereas lower class blacks were isolated and segregated into lower income and racially homogenous communities (then and now). Of course, you should also know that many black communities have also been a mixture of lower class blacks and middle class blacks living next door to one another--not much class divide in that regard.

Do you really understand? If you truly did, you would not be on this tangent and you wouldn't think that Blacks (as a whole) blamed every part of their troubles on white man. The "don't blame us" argument has been made for decades. As I said in a previous post, it is NOT about "us" versus "them." It isn't about the "white man." We are talking about structural and cultural issues here. If people in this country are too sensitive and paranoid to detach their PERSONAL issues from the topic of racial stratification and discrimination, they need to leave the discussion to those of us who can. If some whites (or blacks, or Hispanics, or Asians) think everyone's pointing the finger at them and theirs, it's best that they watch from the sidelines.

As far as where some of "their" problems stemmed from, I am still asking you what that has to do with the general topic of discriminatory practices. Black people know about class division then and now. Black people also know that you can be a physician with a mansion and a BMW, but still get watched when you go to a department store because of the color of your skin. So, while there is a degree of disconnect between the social classes, there will ALWAYS be (and always has been) a connection between the social classes and a shared struggle.

good post, serisously

Because you understand the issue more?

Let's give "them" the benefit of the doubt. Maybe "they" didn't mean "it" that "way." :)

i like the way that you put it....and yes, it gave me a different way to look at it. i can't argue with someone that makes a career out of it. very nice

"Is the chapter still active and is it predominately white? I guess I was suprised that Howard had enough white men to start a chapter of a predominately white fraternity. I know the chapter will be mixed but I just can't imagine a predominately white fraternity having a black chapter"

Not only is the chapter still active, it's the 2nd biggest chapter on campus. Is it still predomintely white - yes, but i also would say that it's the most diverse chapter on campus, with latino, black, asian and white brothers. I really don't think that Pike is going to have a white chapter at howard as much as I think that they are going to try and have a chapter at howard. Like i said in my first post - i think that they have an uphill climb, but if they succeed, don't be surprised when other groups try and go to predominetely black schools. I really want to start GA Gamma at Morehouse.

Marc A.S. Dumas...
The Phi Kappa Psi Fraternity
IL Zeta Chapter
Chapter Adivsor - IL Zeta Chapter and IL Theta Chapter
DePaul University Chapter Advisor of the Year 2000,2001,2002,2003,2005
Phi Kappa Psi National Chapter Advisor of the Year -2003