well

basically you did.

Now do you want to go back and READ what you typed? Unless you can EXPLAIN that quote, I'd quit while I'm ahead.

blatantly bigoted a better term?

The majority of African-Americans celebrate Kwanzaa?

And shred the article and the message but the racism card shouldn't be dealt unless it's deserving.

And I can't quite tell if you are saying the posting by Hoosier is bigoted. If so, I'd like to see how that is the case as well as defined by the word "bigoted".

-Rudey

No the majority of people who celebrate Kwanzaa are African-American


We've so FAR off the Racism card. I'm talking about being insenstive.

:rolleyes:

We both have our views so why even bother.

Listen, "Racism" or a derivation or a reference to it came up 3 times before I first posted. A lot of times people use the word "bigot" as a synonym for "Racist." This not only damages the history of victims of racism but also makes it difficult to deal with in the future. Am I wrong in that? That's all I'm saying.

I don't know anyone that celebrates Kwanzaa (blacks even) and I have never even heard any references in pop-culture (tv, books, papers, etc.) to non-black people celebrating it.

-Rudey

So, does that make you the authority? You haven't experienced those things and others have. Whoop de doo.

No I didn't say it did.

Evidently this post makes you the authority on ASSumptions.

Does it make you the authority on Kwanzaa though? Oh wait, you don't celebrate Kwanzaa, so probably not.

-Rudey

Shutup.

-Rudey

LOL. Who said I was the authority? LOL. But you don't have to celebrate something to be an authority? ;)

Racism is a instutionalized system. Bigotry is basically not liking a person because of their race/religion/gender, etc....


What makes it difficult is that people won't deal with it. They're quick to defend insensitive remarks.

:rolleyes:

Come on Rudey, seriously. If you don't know, just say so.

And what are you adding to this thread? NOTHING. K.I.M. :rolleyes:

"LOL. Who said I was the authority? LOL. But you don't have to celebrate something to be an authority? ;)"

I could just as easily say that to you in response to your previous post to me, stud.

-Rudey

I am baffled as to why anyone who is not Black American and who does not celebrate Kwanzaa thinks anybody in the world gives a rat's ass what he or she thinks of Kwanzaa. Why did dude even write the article?

wow


*sigh*

So how can u have an opinion on this?

Insensitive is subjective but different from racist and bigoted.

If I don't know black people that celebraete Kwanzaa just say so? I did. What are you trying to say?

-Rudey

What am I having an opinion on and what is the opinion?

-Rudey

Shortfuse has already responded with what I would have said.

Ok people....


1. it's clear you don't understand the word racism...

2.

saying you're not trying to be racist is kinda well, not good. Makes it sound like you're about to defend a "racist" statement and want to cover it up.

So you're unable to formulate a response that makese sense? OK stud.

-Rudey

I don't think it is a racist statement, it is valid question from your angle of vision.

First of all, ANYONE can participate in the activities surrounding Kwanzaa (Just like hannakuh(sp)).

Secondly, The same question is asked regarding any Cultural Specific Holiday, it is a celebration using a Cultural infuence that is not generally in the mainstream. As little Culture is mainstreamed now (Please don't equate current Hip Hop with Black Culture), There was nothing for Blacks to relate to in 1966.

Now again, I don't "celebrate" Kwanzaa as I feel living the principles daily is more effective. One of the problems of a Country with the roots we have (where mainstream and Culture does not always equate with Equality and Diversity), It is a natural progression to create events and situations where your culture is emphasized.

LOL. Think what you want because it makes no difference.

No she saying it makes no sense repeating the same damn thing over and over again. It's clear that you just want to argue. but I haven't heard a "response" from you that makes sense.

Correct and it was never founded or marketed as such. Kwanzaa is intended to be a Black/African American celebration of the fruits of harvest and African roots. It is acknowledgement of African ancestry without ignoring the rich intellectual and cultural traditions of Black America. A traditional African holiday (I don't know of any) does not have the same effect.

I do not celebrate Kwanzaa and I do not know anyone who does beyond their organizations mentioning Kwanzaa during more general holiday celebrations. I do appreciate the principles of Kwanzaa and believe that these principles can be found and honored in every day life.

My thoughts are on point.

By the way "Think what you want because it makes no difference" LOL LOL LMAO LMFAO!!! HARDY HAR HAR HAR!

-Rudey

Again, tell me what I have an opinion on and what that opinion is.

-Rudey

In respect to the article

YOUR OPINION. Not a fact.


Opinion that NO non-black people celebrating Kwanzaa because you didn't haven't heard nor seen it.

Even if you're try that (that's not an opinion) defense, it's still short-sighted because it's clear that YOU DON'T KNOW because it's impossible for you to know everybody in this country.

No.

Many African Americans know about Kwanzaa but can not tell you its principles. Kwanzaa was a more salient celebration when it was founded during the 60s. While racism and discrimination still exist, the 60s marked the Civil Rights Movement and more overt acts. There was even more need for minority groups to have a sense of unity and identity beyond what unwelcoming AmeriKKKa had to offer.

There are all sorts of celebrations that I have never heard of. That doesn't give me the right to question their authenticity or whether people should celebrate them. Kwanzaa is most often mentioned when people are trying to appear all-inclusive. In this country there are only a few celebrations around this time of the year that a majority or numerically recognizable subset of the population celebrate: Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and I believe Ramadan is over before the Thanksgiving-Christmas time of the year.

Thank you, Chaos, that is a very well considered answer to what I believe was a very respectful original question on the part of Lady Pi Phi.

At this point, though, I'm not even you were responding to her.

Anyway, thanks for the post.

In respect the the article? You're losing me but perhaps a more detailed explanation would work.

No "tip toe" and "close to" are not the same thing as "being". That's not an opinion. If it's racist, say racist. Don't say it's close to it. If I came close to winning and didn't win, then I didn't win.

And if you read the last quote, it said I didn't know anybody that celebrated it. That is the truth. It is not an opinion. It is a pure fact. I don't know anybody that celebrates it. Maybe you do. What don't you get here? You're making the ASSumption that I said no blacks ever celebrate Kwanzaa.

I expect an apology now Shortfuse.

-Rudey

First off you and I are operating on a different definition and understanding of the term “racist” or “racism”. For me, and most Canadians, racism doesn’t have to be tied into any power structure or relationship… an individual can be racist if they exhibit/display bigotry, racial prejudice, racial stereotypes, even name calling – the definition of a racist is a little more broad up here as you can see. So in effect, to me (and again most Canadians) the term bigot and racist can be used interchangeably, with the same meaning.

Link to “definition” from the federal government’s program to combat racism:
http://www.gnb.ca/hrc-cdp/e/sayno.htm

As for hooiser revealing himself to be a racist tool – well lets just say that it’s nice he provided proof for the whole board this time… of course it would have been a little more blatant if he’d quoted something from Mein Kampf or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or perhaps the Turner Diaries – but the effect is pretty much the same. Heck the only thing I’m really surprised about is that he didn’t also post a link to FOXNews doing that favourable piece about Stormfront.org
:rolleyes:

That's opinion. You believe being close isn't racist. Most people believe that being close is just as bad. Thinking about rape is as bad as being a rapist don't you think?

You won't GET an apology because I never said that you SAID no blacks celebrate it. You questioned it by saying you've never heard of anybody celebrating it. But why go back and forth with this?

Sometimes I wish the terms "racist" and "racism" would be in the back of people's minds so they can formulate an opinion and response without such emotionally charged catch phrasing. It takes a lot more depth to think and speak beyond catch phrases.

This would give REAL racists and acts of racism the chance to be uncovered instead of being blended in with the prejudiced bigots of the world. The article expressed some unpopular viewpoints. It may be charged by bigotry or even racist ideals. However, sometimes unpopular viewpoints are just unpopular viewpoints.

Again, it's not the same. Close to winning (second place) is not the same as winning (first place). There is no opinion. Thinking about rape is not the same as raping someone. You can ask the courts that convict rapists for actions and the victims of rapists who suffered from actions. That was a bad analogy so let's stick with my "First place" and "Second place" analogy instead.

You must have a short memory. You should apologize. I would apologize to you if I made such an accusation. It's only fair.

-Rudey

And please demonstrate how using your newly defined "Racism" even allows that word to be used here.

I posted a link to a thread on the Alpha Kappa Alpha forum - a black sorority - that had similar viewpoints from people who didn't believe in Kwanzaa as well as background on the creator. Are they racist too now?

-Rudey

No.

You also can't account for what people are thinking or how close they are coming to being a particular thing. If the person is being a bigot, just call the person a bigot (which is what I thought you did). If they are an extreme bigot, call them an extreme bigot. Bringing in the concepts racist and racism are not as evident just from reading that particular article.

It is unfortunate that the federal government is using such elementary school definitions of racism, prejudice, and discrimination.

Whether I finished first or second isn't the same arguement as using racist comment vs. insensitive remarks. Remember I also said that Racism is a strong word to use to describe this article. Your memory seems to be short as well.


But we're off the subject of this article now. Point is, why does it bother the author or anybody who supports the author's view points so much?

I did call him a bigot. We've jump off course with the debate.

I'm just debating that being close is just as bad. But, that's my opinion, I won't throw that in as fact.

My beliefs is that the problem with racism these days is that alot of it is "subliminal" and it can be "defended" because it's dressed up in intellectual conversation.

You're not making sense. You should apologize.

As for the subject of the article, I don't know there are many that are bothered by the holiday (some in the AKA forum) or don't celebrate it. I suppose if you want their answer you could ask them.

Heck maybe Hoosier just posted an article and celebrates Kwanzaa. Then you may owe him an apology also.

-Rudey

Alot of things don't make sense to you Rudey. Get off the apology tip. Neither of you deserve one nor will you get one. I celebrate Ramadan but I won't go out and post a article bashing it. :rolleyes:


For the author to question the HOLIDAY, states that something about it bothers him.:rolleyes: