Oh, this is rich....

We need to get most of GC treated for mulitple personality disorder.

I think not. The "holiday" parties, etc, to which I am referring were previously called Christmas Parties, Christmas parades, Christmas concerts, Christmas cards for one patently obvious reason - they were being celebrated, marched, performed, and mailed by people celebrating a Christian holiday. Now they have to walk on eggshells to avoid "offending" a non-Christian with the mere mention of the word "Christmas".

It seems to me that the last socially-acceptable bias in society is against Christians. One needs only to watch the Southpark episode where a statue of the Virgin Mary "bleeds out her ass" to come to this conclusion. Accordingly, all of the Christmas idiocy is not because of some warm and fuzzy desire to include all, but rather to exclude the Christian influence on the holidays.

This assumption is pretty much false - thus, it is actually your conclusion which does not follow.

Christmas concerts at a high school, Christmas parties for an entire office, and Christmas parades put on by a city council are not, and never were, exclusively for and by Christians - they were put on by a mixed group of people, the majority of whom were Christian.

Now, as the number of non-Christians becomes larger and more vocal, it can only be viewed as progress to be inclusive, rather than exclusive.

Bottom line: your assumptions do not actually match your conclusion that "Happy Holidays" or the like is actively anti-Christian. "Inclusive" and "anti-Christian" are not synonymous, nor do they necessarily occupy the same space.


If I give you 100 dollars for no reason whatsoever, then later insist on only giving you 60 dollars for no reason, you are not being discriminated against because I reduced your completely unnecessary benefit.

Even with inclusionary changes, Christians are NOT subject to overwhelming bias or discrimination - they're simply getting 60 cents on their previous dollar. It can NOT be possible for you to miss this.

I can tell that you didn't read my post...So I'll post it again for you:

his is just my opinion as a non-Christian.

Using "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is better for me because its inclusive of everyone, and its an acknowledgement that everyone isn't a Christian, and that they still be will celebrating a holiday important to their faith at this time of year, and hat you wish them well (I think that was a run-on sentence).

I'm not so offended, but I do get a little irritated that people constantly assume that I'm celebrating Christmas. "Happy holidays" to me is more respectful of everyone's differences and realizing that there are those who are not Christian, so Christmas has no significance to them. For me, its just another day on the calendar, nothing special.

You are complaining about having to walk on eggshells, but that's not the case. Its about including everyone in your well wishes.

Bingo ~ if I know someone, or the group I'm talking to is Christian I will wish them a Merry Christas and Happy Holidays... if I'm not sure then it's just Happy Holidays or Season Greetings (written that one)

As the saying goes, "if you were right, I would agree with you!"
:-)

Here are two statements by two other "non-Christians"

"The secularist assault on Christmas (unwittingly aided by the perpetually aggrieved and sensitivity-whipped) is one front in the war on America’s Judeo-Christian heritage." (http://www.grasstopsusa.com/112905.html)

"Christianizing the culture is not the problem for Jews, secularizing it is." (http://www.towardtradition.org/article_christmas.htm)

They're both Jewish and therefore cannot be accused of harboring some hidden agenda of ignorant Christian proselytizing.

I think the whole "issue" is rediculous and it's just another political ploy to get people rouled up so that they will get mad at one group and vote for the other. Typical.

Its a simple to me as if and when someone wishes you a Merry Christmas, say thank you for THE SENTIMENT. Don't take it as someone personally offending you. The guy/gal just wants you to have a happy holiday, whatever you want to call it. If you are a sanctified Christian in a church wishing a fellow perishoner a Merry Christmas may mean it more sentimentally, but most people just say it as a kind well-wishing sort of thing.

If you think of the Christmas holiday in America as a federal holiday based on the traditional practices and beliefs that's celebated by a large number of Americans, then the official titles and names should be able to be understood by everyone. Just like presidential birthdays and Dr. King's birthday, while not as widely and commercially regarded in the same way, still are reserved by the fed gov, Christmas is an observance of a very important occurance recognized by millions of people in the country. Its one of those things people have to just deal with if they want to live in and be Americans. Not everyone, I would even say not even the majority of Americans, care about or celebrate Dr. King's birthday, but because millions of people in the country have a special regard for that man and celebrate his birthday AND due to his impact on the country, just like Christmas, the fed gov chose to make it a national obervance. If you happen to not care about it, just don't celebrate it. No one is making anyone else celebrate it. Making the issue out to be either a "war on Christmas" which its not, OR a big forced celebration of a religion is wrong. Both sides are making a fuss about nothing. If it applies to you, fine, if it doesn't fine. It's that simple.

I am reposting this because it applies and some people seem to have on blinders:

This time of year does encompass more than 1 holiday.

The 4 "usual" of Christmas, Kwanzaa, Yule and the New Year

This year it also happens Chanukah (not a high holiday....we had October for that this year). Chanukah and Ramadan (in October if I recall correctly) are always moving based on the Lunar calendar as opposed to the Gregorian calendar.

So I see no problem saying Happy Holidays because, December has a lot more than just Christmas. There are also A LOT of religions out there tother han just Christians...


/begin rant
hey fundies....get over yourselves :rolleyes:
/end rant

Alexander Hamilton once said, "The People is stupid."

I don't know how that quotation applies here, either.

I would prefer it if you'd address some of our points here . . .

I loved all of your post, but mostly this part because I think some people on EACH side need to get over themselves. :rolleyes:

LOL. I thought that was some weird Scientology term the first time I read it.

(I was born and raised Jewish, and I have never seen that abbreviation before!)
'
ETA: I am a conservative "closet Christian" raised by liberal leaning Jews in a conservative religious environment (yeah, don't even try to touch that one) and my parents who don't even believe in God would go positively ballistic if you defiled their Passover table with unkosher foods (although there was a pork roast sitting in the freezer) or go off on any fellow Jews who had the audacity to showcase their Christmas envy by bringing a "Hanukkah Bush" into their homes (there is no such thing--- it's just a Christmas tree decorated with Jewish ornaments) or stringing lights on their roof. As Hanukkah is "The Festival of Lights," I found that last part a bit silly.

What am I getting at here? People just like to complain. Why be so insecure over the inclusion or exclusion? It's a wish for a Happy Holiday.

Really not a big deal unless you make it a big deal.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

I was surprised to learn that this quote is gramatically correct.

I think everything should say Merry Chrismas this time of year. It's gonna be Chrismas after all. And its not the Christian conservatives who caused all the problems we deal with now its the atheist librals who shamed every one until we all started talking really awkward.

Yeah, agreed - 'the people' as a singular body . . . more proof that Alex was smarter than . . . I am.

I like "Peoples" with an s at the end.

-Rudey

Got my card from TKE Hdqtrs. today.

They've gone with "Seasons Greetings"

As a Jew, I don't care when people say "Merry Christmas" to me. I simply answer back, "Happy Channukah." (They tend to get all upset though.)

However, I do wish that people would be a tad more respectful about other people's faiths. As it has been said before there are many Holidays during this time. I don't take offense when people send me a Christmas card or a Holiday card, I'm just thankful that they thought of me and mine during this busy time.

I think the White House Cards are very tasteful, personal feelings about the President aside. They chose to respect the fact that there are others who don't share their beliefs, yet celebrate their own.

I've decided that if you're offended by Channukah, Ramadan, Xmas, Solstice, etc. or some one wishing you well in the time of the year where it is all cold and you might be sad or alone and they are just trying to bring in a little brightness since there is so little sunshine in the northern hemisphere right now.....you people are pricks

Being a trend setter...

Yeah, right.

I've said Happy Holidays for quite a while in business and social settings -- simply to be polite and recognize that many of my friends and professional associates are not Christians. Even if no offense is taken by the term Merry Christmas, I think it's a nice, respectful thing to do.

To my family and friends who I am sure are Christians (practicing or not) I say Merry Christmas.

This may be a strange thought but does Bill O'Reilly go to church a lot?

-Rudey

Who knows.

All of a sudden FOX is taking a fair amount of heat in some publications for allegedly manufacturing a news story out of this situation. O'Reilly in particular.

Seems overblown to me no matter who started it.

Manufactured..... noooo.... but wait (in best Jon Stewart voice) whats this:

Why one might almost assume that dear old Bill is making stuff up again
:rolleyes:

I for one dont give a Goats Butt What Religion or Ethnic Group anyone belongs to!

I just want to Wish all a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!:cool:

I have always said Happy Holidays because it is inclusive of everyone, and it also includes the new year. I think it's good that President Bush chose to say Happy Holidays. I'm sure many of the people he sends his cards to celebrate holidays other than Christmas, and it was kind of him to be INCLUSIVE instead of exclusive.

I agree with you here! I am NOT a Bush fan AT all, but I think the cards are fine.

Now my Canadian holy roller Pentacostal Mother In Law is all up in arms about it, calling Bush a hypocrite :rolleyes:

This was and probably will be the first and ONLY time where I defend Bush

I write in my cards "Have a Safe and Happy Holiday"...if that offends a person--whateva!


I like the fact that he included everyone. This season is not just for Christians...so GET OVER IT and get the panties out of a wad!

Meh... just tell her that Canada has no seperation of Church and State - and hey God's in the national anthem... but still way back in Queen Victoria's times "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings" made it appearance as a way to acknoweldge different faiths but to still impart the blessings of the season.