At least I've got the guts to reveal my affliation. And if you'd bother to search my posts I can be friendly - to people who don't attack my sister. And if any of my sisters have a problem with my representation, I'm sure they'll let me know.

I love it when lurkers come out of the shadows for the sole purpose of starting up shit.

I thought this thread was great with Alphababy, but I was wrong.

And once again, I <3 33girl.

I believe NPC is National Panhellenic conference and NPHC is National Pan-Hellenic council or is it the other way around?

NPHC is a council. when i say the pan-hellenic part, i add a little pause after pan. don't know if that's officially correct, but that's how many say it on my old campus.

To continue to fan the flames.....

In reference to NPC's being called historically White, I really (and sincerely) do not understand why people are getting offended. Note the term historically , meaning in the past . If anyone can provide evidence of there being an African American woman initiated into an NPC before 1960 / 1965 - and the chapter was not closed because an attempt was made to initiate an African American woman, then please provide it.

Now, I do agree that in these days and times NPCs are no longer majority or exclusively White. So, to refer to NPCs as WGLO's would be incorrect and offensive, but to deny an occurrance in history would be wrong.

Again, correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that part of the reason AOII was started was because there were Jewish women (i.e., they were not Protestant) who were denied membership to other NPCs because they were Jewish. Should AOII just ignore that part of their history? I would think not.

Historically Black GLOs are just that historically Black, meaning that in the past the members were (exclusively) Black. These days it is common to see White, Hispanic and Asian members of HBGLOs.

Again, not trying to offend, just trying to understand. I guess that one can assume that for most of the history of NPCs they had all White membership, so to point it out is like pointing out the obvious.

In "Our Kind of People: The Story of America's Black Upper Class", by Lawrence Otis Graham -- it is mentioned that Barbara Delaney was the first African-American woman initiated into the NPC when she became a member of Sigma Kappa at Cornell University in either 1956 or 1957.

Obviously I am not an SK, so only SKs would be able to verify that info via their sister directory.

I did a search of the Cornell University Greek Life site and did not find an existing Sigma Kappa chapter there. Still, the reasons why that chapter may or may not have closed is no one else's business but the members of Sigma Kappa.

There have been other threads about this, and I think I said something similar....

I think it's just best to accept that they don't like the term and to refrain from using it. Though I understand both sides of the debate, as an outsider to the NPC/NIC, it's just better if I call them what they prefer to be called, and describe them as "general" fraternities and sororities as described in Baird's.

Yes, we are "general" fraternities and sororities, too, but we don't mind being called Black, historically Black, cultural, or whatever.

Oddly enough, there isn't a lot of information. Our sister database has no mention of a Barbara Delaney. You already know that we don't have a chapter at Cornell but our chapter there was closed in 1956.

I've emailed HQ to see if they can verify whether Barbara Delaney was ever a member of our organization.

That is odd, considering her name and your sorority pops up every time there's a Greek Life facts page!

If she really wasn't the first African-American initiated into the NPC, then who was? And when?

And I double checked my sister directory, and there really was a Diana M. Lam initiated into the AGD-U. of British Columbia chapter in 1953.

Hopefully HQ can settle it then & soon. I think its definitely something that needs an explanation!

ok sorry my spelling is wrong....but I know sorority is not offensive. Nope not all sororities were founded by white, however it originated from white people. Now, back to you Ms.D the word "FRAT" is offensive I did not use that word in any way. I used the sord sorority, but I don't take it offensive. Now Mr.OTW if you also read what I stated it tells you that they did begin by white people...not saying that they were only founded by whites because AKA and Delta Thetha Sigma was founded by African American Ladies and Lambda Alpha Theta is a Latino Sorority...actually the first and biggest. Now next time please read carefully and you will understand.

Love-

Ms. Alpha Baby

I'm sorry, but i'm not really following your post. Perhaps you wrote it in a hurry.

OOPPS LET ME EXPLAIN. I did not mean to say sororities were founded by whites. I meant to say that it did started by anglos....now I am not saying AKA or DTS was founded by whites, clearly they were founded by African American Women. However, fraternities and sororities were founded by white studfents and this gave the ideas to other students, and so on. Understand now??

Paging AXO Alum! This one is too damn tragic for me to respond.

I can't believe I've been called Mr. OTW so many times this year... :rolleyes:

If you're going to educate the GC masses about AKA and DST, at least make sure you spell it right. And while you're at it, make sure you get their letters in the right order.

what is wrong with you and your aggressive attitude??

Don't take it personally, she's an alchoholic who has no tact. She can't control her diarrhea of the mouth.

In fact, if you'll look at of sample of her posts, you'll see that she rarely has anything of value to say.

Funny, I could say the same thing about you. :)

And what's wrong with you?

No seriously, what's wrong....with you?

I'm sorry that your day isn't getting any better. Maybe a good night's sleep will cure you.

Or a spin through the laundry cycle! Maybe SockPuppet just needs some of this:

http://www.vaiden.net/old_tide_box.jpg

Did you get a PM from Ms. Alphababy asking what was up with your funky attitude too?

WHERE ARE YOU, AXO ALUM???

Before Tide:

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rja2/...0sock%20ed.GIF
http://www.llfshop.co.uk/osc/images/whitesocks2.jpg

After Tide:

http://cnewmark.smugmug.com/photos/9464782-S.jpg

Yeah, I read the book too, and as I recall the chapter was closed by their National when National found out the chapter initiated a Black female. This information was in Graham's book.

If you go back and read my post you should see my specific point of naming a chapter that initiated a Black woman before 1960 / 1965 that was not closed.

In conversation I do not refer to them (NPCs) as 'Historically White' because I've never heard NPCs referred to that way. But, it still does not change the fact that they were historically White.

What's DTS? Department of Transportation Services?

Is that a new sorority? Never heard of it.

Originally posted by Alphababy
now I am not saying AKA or DTS was founded by whites, clearly they were founded by African American Women.


How rude is it to get a sorority's letters wrong!? Come on- if you're going to post something that's supposed to be intelligent- Do your research and make sure you get the name and letters right! :rolleyes:

Ah! I found my copy of Graham's book. In chapter 5 'The Right Fraternities and Sororities', page 87, first paragraph, it says:

Barbara Collier Delany's experience at Cornell in 1956 underscored the problems waiting for Black students who faced the white fraternities and sororities operating on white college campuses. Delany made national headlines in 1956 when, as a student at the Ivy League campus, she was offered membership in the white sorority of Sigma Kappa. She remembers being one of only a handful of blacks at the college at the time. "I was the first black ever to be offered membership in a white sorority," says Delany, who had grown up in a family of privilege. She belonged to Jack and Jill, debuted with the Girl Friends, and graduated from the elite all-girl Hunter High School in Manhattan. "The girls in the sorority were very nice to me, but the officials at the national headquarters were furious, and they told the students that they had better reject me or headquarters would shut down the sorority's chapter at Cornell, " says Delany, who still corresponds with some of those classmates. "When the white students refused to kick me out, headquarters shut down the sorority."

So, if there is no longer an active chapter of SK at Cornell, then this is probably why.

Again, for much of their history NPCs were historically White.

No wonder crzychx couldn't find her in their database! It was Delany, not Delaney!

Now, I know I can't speak for the other NPC sororities, but I still hesitate to refer to my own AGD as historically white. It may have been that way from 1904-1952, but not the case from 1953-present.

There isn't a Barbara Delany listed either. In fact, there were no intiates at the Alpha Zeta chapter in 1956. So I've emailed one of the 24 initiated members from 1955 to see if she can provide any insight. Ya'll have got me so curious about this-I at least want to try to verify the information!

Maybe she's listed as Barbara Collier (is Delaney/Delany her married name? Maybe she didn't always use it?)?

I've tried it. Nope.:confused:

Oh, and edited to add, the database searches both maiden & married names.

I respect your reason.

My only point is that by virture of NPC membership for a period in their history they were all White. Just as my alma mater, Texas A&M, was all male, all White from 1876-1965. Look in any yearbook during that time period and that is the only type of student you will see. Is Texas A&M referred to as a HWCU? No, but it does not take away from the fact that it was.

I, myself, am not trying to be offensive. But, I do think acknowledging (?sp) a time period in history should not be offensive. If your sorority / fraternity is about sisterhood / brotherhood, then the bonds you make should be colorblind.

I can only speak for myself but when I hear/read NPC sororities referred to as white or historically white I feel like a person might as well say I'm a racist and member of the KKK. :( Yes, there was a time when the NPC sororities were all white. It's a fact.

As you point out, your alma mater was all male and white until 1965. Do you tell people that you went to a white college or historically white male college? Or do you just tell people that you went to college? I'll guess that you don't feel compelled to clarify that a college is "white" but I do understand the reasoning behind saying a college or GLO is historically black. Much like if I had attended an all women college I would likely point that out because it would be a different experience than a co-ed school.

In regards to Barbara Delany, as my sister has already pointed out nobody was initiated in 1956. I checked and there was no Barabara initiated in 1955 but two in 1954 (maiden names Brodie and Ries).

The quote from Mr. Graham's book doesn't actually say that she was initiated. It saddens me to think that this could be true. However, I also take into account that the mid 50s was not the age on enlightenment and that greek men and women have never been considered to be "ahead of their time" when it comes to accepting anything outside of the socially accepted norm. I feel pity for the women that made the decision to close that chapter, assuming that was the real reason behind the closing. For all I know the chapter was well below total and could have been on the brink of having the charter pulled before the members decided to bid Ms. Delany.

Be careful what you ask for....
 

...cause you just might get it!

Here is the thread on that very subject.....

....and it isn't a very pretty discussion thread, either

Is NPHC open to expanding to the D-10?

Enjoy!

Is it sad that I scrolled through all the actual information to watch the catfight on this thread???

That's what I've been thinking this entire thread. I think that's why people mention things being historically something other than white. It's not news or out of the norm for things in this country to be historically white, so I think most people assume and/or understand that somthing founded in this country has a dominately white history unless it is distinctly pointed out that it's different. Which is probably why NPHC, Latina, Asian, Multicultural ect. organizations point out their history.

With that said, and knowing we live in a society where no matter how race blind people state they are, there are still racial issues in America. I've read on here several threads started by women of color about their concerns about going NPC, I have never heard of a chapter that has a majority or even a third women of color and about one school that has still never taken a women of color knowingly into any of their chapters (i don't remember the school or the thread right now...too early). Anyway, point is that those things about the history make it seem rational (even if not PC) to most that they are historically white. Challenge is to move past that history and live in the present. There is nothing wrong with that history, it appears to be a fact. As long as you are doing what you say you are doing..which is accepting and loving your sisters of all races...what does it matter?

edited because i can't spell before 8am

This Thread =

http://www.uvasportsfanatic.com/train%20wreck.jpg

If you've never heard of a chapter that is more than 30% "minority," then you've never been to the University of Toronto.