At one of our large research universities, is anyone doing a follow-up survey of girls (and guys) who register for rush and participate, but don't pledge?

Is anyone sending these people a survey form, or doing interviews of a sample of them?

Comfy shoes would be the small beginning! Think about everyone's voices, their throats, the exhaustion, the heat, the 8-hour-long membership selections, the lack of sleep, the tempers flaring...


:eek: :eek:

We did try this, a few times to my knowledge. The response wasn't really worth the effort, though - something like 15%.

We also did have to turn in cut lists along with invitation lists. We were NOT permitted to say why someone would not be invited back.

While we didn't do it, I firmly believe in the "decline with regret" option given to PNMs. That gives a chapter - and the PNM - a second chance at a party invitation.

We have the "accept (Decline) with regret" option..but here's the catch, it counts as "accepting" the invite.

Example: Suzy PNM gets an invite to Tau Delta's final party. Unfortunately, she has a religious comitment at the time of our preference party that is extremely important. She wants to go to the party, but just can't make it...so she "accepts with regret". Now if Suzy also recieved invites from TEM and Theta Nu to final party, she would have to either "accept with regret" to one of them, or accept one of them and attend their party...one group must be cut by her. 1 w/regret+1 accept= 2 final sororities that you are almost assured to be SOMEWHERE on their bid list.


And while I agree that sorority life is a "Selective" process..I don't think that "selective" should mean "elitist".

Although I'm not in a sorority, I would like to put my two cents about this. I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but I think that juniors and seniors should be free from the quota. Besides, not many juniors and seniors rush. Out of 200 girls, there may be about 10 juniors and 5 seniors. If they make good grades, give them all a chance! I think that upperclassmen should be given some priority because they won't be in school long.

Also, juniors and seniors PNMs can bring the experience (along with the sisters) when it comes to attending school to the rest of the bid class. They can be great girls as much as the freshmen.

A junior or a senior may not had time to join in the first two to three years due to issues.

Another idea is to pass out application at the dorms, should rush take place after the dorms open. That happened to my school last year.

The sad thing is that there are no Latino sororities or fratenities or Multi-Cultural Sororities at my school. There are 20,000 people at my school (with a growing Latino population) and I believe that it's long overdue to have these organizations. There are people that may want to join these groups.

You'll be hard pressed to find a chapter that will bid a senior. Chapters want freshman girls who will be active all four years and will hold positions every year. And upperclassmen are given a chance! There are lots of them on these boards that were given bids as an upperclassman, though admittedly, not nearly as many freshmen. And the main reason why freshmen are chosen over upperclassmen is because freshmen have the years to devote to a chapter and won't graduate the following semester. We bidded sophomores and juniors when I was in college, and they were some of the greatest girls in the chapter, but it didn't happen very often.

Your school doesn't have any of those specialized groups like that because no one has started to organize them yet. Greek life there has been struggling over the last few years due to low rush numbers, so they're really not in a position to bring in a new chapter. But that's not to say that it can't be done in the future.

Hmm... I heard this described differently:

If Suzy PNM gets 10 invitations to a round of parties where she can only accept 5, she can accept her top five, and put "decline with regrets" on as many invitations as she'd like. Then, the next round (she can accept three), if she receives no invitations from her top five, she can - IF they extend an invitation - to one of the other glos who DO extend an invitation. That's because ABC, who she "declined with regrets" really liked her, and decided to give her one more chance.

Maybe it varies from campus to campus?

It does vary and PhoenixAzul's campus is not NPC. AFAIK, there is no NPC recommendation regarding declines with regret.

LOL issues.

I don't know -- if someone is too busy to join a sorority during her first three years of college, what's the point by the time she's a senior? If it was that important to her, she could've made it more of a priority.

I think it would be opening another can of worms to have all free juniors and seniors all the time. You might end up with a big group of nutty juniors who think it's the end of the world when they don't get a bid anywhere even considering that they are free.

There have been some really good ideas thrown out here. Some more realistic than others, and as with everything else, it varies by campus.

I just don't see how SO many women can be cut so early. In my experience, it just seems that everything is TOO quick. I know that when we went into selection meetings, my sisters would be raving about a girl, but half of us didn't have a clue who she was...and our quota was only about 15!!!

Kudos to those who mentioned more education about NATIONAL organizations. While XYZ might not be really strong/or 'top tier' at your school, PNM's need to understand that there is more than college. I know that when I COB'd (as a junior) I didn't have a clue how grand the big picture was behind my GLO.

I think there are many small things that can be done to alleviate this problem...primarily for those PNM's willing to maximize their options.

I don't see why upperclassmen shouldn't count in normal quota. If I were an upperclassman, I'd think it would give me a complex... maybe they just took me because they had to... Why not just increase quota?

I like the new release system adopted by many schools in the past few years. When the historically stronger performers have to cut more PNMs in the earlier rounds, it allows PNMs to see what their prospects really are and gives those chapters with historically lower returns and bid matching more prospects to draw from.

How do we maximize membership on a campus-by-campus basis? One size does not fit all-- it must happen on a local level with input from NPC and the individual national sororities. I think setting a long-term strategic plan for reviewing total is important. The Greek Adviser, chapter advisory boards and National Panhellenic reps should be instrumental in its evaluation.

Campus Panhellenics and chapters can make a dent by developing and implementing a Greek Life PR and marketing campaign to promote recruitment and Greek Life through yearround events and marketing materials.

The most important thing is campus involvement. Show your letters on campus. Members should be involved in actitivies outside the sorority. Promote your organization EVERYDAY.

And it goes without saying that you can have the best recruitment and promote the heck out of Greek Life, but RETENTION is the most important thing. Respect your members, offer diverse programming to suit a variety of needs and interests and plan with the majority of members in mind.

My little didn't join till she was a senior because all her friends up till that point were very anti-Greek. After hanging out with nice Greek people for a summer, she reconsidered and probably put more into her two semesters than some people did four years.

Different people come to things at different times. I would a thousand times rather have someone join as a junior or a senior and be very active for that period and continue as alumnae, than join as a pre-freshman because everyone else was rushing and quit halfway through her junior year because she's burned out, and never have anything to do with the sorority again.

The only reason groups want freshmen is they (theoretically) pay dues for four years. Not because they'll be better or more involved members. But as I've said so many times, if half your pledge class is gone by graduation, what's the point? You would have been as far ahead to pledge the upperclassmen.

Okay - so many things to respond to here.

First, NPC (and this is all from the new edition of the Green Book or NPC Manual of Information) has come up with 4 types of recruitments that a College Panhellenic (CPH) can choose from based on their system. NPC realized that formal recruitment did not fit all chapters across the country and this was their solution. The 4 styles are:

Fully Structured Recruitment - FSR (as we all know and love;) )
Partially Structued Recruitment - PSR
Minimally Structured Recruitment - MSR
Continuous Recruitment (or no formal and COB only) - CR

In the Green Book, they have questions to help the CPH determine which style is right for their system. They are also advised to contact their NPC Area Advisor for help.

Second, NPC now recommends that (again in the new Green Book) that chapter total be reevaluated every year. Yes, that was EVERY YEAR. Advisors from the chapters should be part of this discussion as well.

Third, the new Release Figure Management (RFM) is to be used by all CPH's by 2006 during recruitment. This of course does not apply if you are not doing FSR or PSR.

So, many of our wishes have already been answered - the CPH's just need to implement them.

On a different note, I've worked with several campuses. At many, if a woman is being dropped b/c she has not invites - the CPH will call the chapters and ask that they reconsider her so that she won't be released from recuitment. The only exception being that if they know she is being release b/c of GPA they don't usually bother.

ETA:

I would love to see a seperate quota for each class (I think I said this earlier). I've seen Jr or Upperclass quota - but then the Soph. are usually totaly screwed.

What I think is funniest about this is that everyone refers to "free" Jrs. or Srs. They aren't really "free" b/c their number comes out of what quota would have been. Quota isn't necessarily any different, it's just how it's broken out. Is quota of 35 different than quota of 30 + 5 upperclass? Sure, it's different terminology and you must take upperclass to get whole 35, but it's still only 35 women max you can take. It just "allows" chapters that won't take upperclass in regular quota to be able to. Does this make any sense to anyone but me?

A good friend (and now an Alpha Xi sister) joined my chapter as a 2nd year senior after my little sister and I worked really hard to recruit her.

Why? Because she's a fabulous woman who wanted an opportunity to be a sister and an active, involved alumnae! That really doesn't seem that different from women who pursue alumnae initiation after college.

I've never seen it in the Green Book, but I know that some campuses use it. I just happen to think it helps keep more women in the Recruitment process.

Of course, what would work at Campus A isn't going to work at Campus B, etc. But if we truly are correct in saying, "No matter what the letter, we're all Greek together", I find both maximizing bids and retention top priorities.

That's a valid point. I think I was put off by the way the other poster said someone might not join because of "issues" -- that just seemed like a cop-out to me.

So yeah, juniors and seniors can be amazing members. However, not all of them can be, you know? Even if they didn't count toward quota, there will always be some women who are not good candidates.

A very good idea that we tried to make happen in the last few weeks before we closed (the times just never lined up) was we were going to have an interest party on the same night as Chi Omega and another one on the night same night of Delta Zeta. Both of those soroities had discussed with us having their parties earlier and then shuttling (those who wanted) over to our interest parties. Their idea was #1 helping us out because we were about to close and #2 they wanted PNMs, but they wanted the PNM's to make sure what they really wanted (I.E. open minded)

One of the worst possible rules, but not uncommon. What do they need $50 for?


"The Panhellenic Recruitment Kick-Off will take place at 7 p.m. today in the Student Union. Each woman interested in joining a sorority must pay a registration fee. Because the Aug. 17 deadline has passed, there is a $50 late fee. Registration is open until midnight Tuesday." UNC newspaper

T-shirts
Water/snacks/etc
Registration materials
Being stupid and being late (LOL)

I think it's great when houses make quota but it also sucks when your house isn't making quota b/c girls would rather drop than give your house a chance. Last year, a little over 300 girls signed up for recruitment but only 4 out of the 7 houses on campus made quota. So many girls went into this just dead set on a particular house that they preferred to drop instead of giving another house a chance. I particularly remember one PNM sitting with her arms crossed during the Pref party & refusing to speak to anyone. She went to 2 Pref parties & only came to ours b/c her Rho Gamma convinced her to give it a chance. I would rather she didn't come b/c she just looked mutinous & hostile.

That's a good point, actually. At many schools, PNMs wishing to go through NPC recruitment must pay a registration fee, and that can cause people to balk - "why should I pay $10/$50/$100/etc. to go through recruitment when I have no guarantee of walking out of it with a bid?"

The fees pay for T-shirts, snacks, maybe meals, and maybe room and board during recruitment week. The late fee is there to motivate PNMs to sign up early, though a $50 late fee seems a little steep... what's the standard registration fee?

Of course, if you're a PNM balking at the idea of paying $10 or $50 or whatever to participate in recruitment... wait until you pledge and get your first bill. :p

Our rush was $5- but we didn't get T-Shirts either

Some things I noticed while a student at UGA:

Somehow there are always rumors of certain sororities being this way or that way (the smallest house, the nerds, the party girls, etc.) which can make girls who might fit in at these houses feel uncomfortable because other rushees are so quick to judge. I know that I myself was guilty of judging a couple of houses based on stupid rumors like "They check how much your dad makes" and "They vote by looking at your photo." I know we can't ever completely stop these stereotypes/rumors, and they happen to every house, but I think if we foster an environment of Greek togetherness, this will help girls choose the best houses for them, rather than the houses with certain reputations. [And yes, I know most people agree with this... but trust me, the rumors I heard were from sorority women who were supposed to be "silent.]

I've also heard girls say that they refuse to pledge a house because it does Spring Rush and "None of the good houses do spring rush." This is ludricrous, and what this says to me is that (a) the girl only wants to join a popular clique, not pledge a sorority, and (b) the girl does not understand why a group would do spring rush or COB. I know of several houses at UGA, for example, who never have problems making quota in the fall but sometimes choose to do spring rush in order to bid to total or because a space opened in the chapter because of a senior graduating in December or a fall new member de-pledging. If large campuses (like UGA) advertised Spring Rush like they do Fall Rush, this would make it as big of a deal to the rushees, and they would not feel as though their house choices were any lesser because they were rushing in January instead of August.

Overall, I think that more women would pledge if they went through rush feeling like all sororities were equal and they were looking for the best fit out of a variety of options. However, so many women drop out each year because they don't get the top houses on campus and they would rather not be Greek than find a home elsewhere. I really think campuses with a large number of houses need to focus on bringing out the strengths of each individual chapter so that there's never a feeling of "good houses" and "bad houses"... rather just a feeling that each house is unique.

Yes, I know that's idealistic and will probably never happen.

It seems that it's getting the collegiates members to understand this that is the problem. I cannot understand why, in the limited amount of time we have to talk to PNM's, you would want to waste one second of it talking about another chapter.

I think that sometimes it falls to ingnorance of the chapter members. They don't understand what "Panhellenic Spirit" is and they are only concerned with their own chapter not the overall Panhellenic system. It is beyond their comprehension, in most cases, to see that all the chapters are tied together and that the system is only as strong as it's weakest link.

Stepping down from soapbox.

I agree. I know that I personally have become much more Panhellenic-minded, but probably because of GC (:D), and the fact that I am involved in my area Alumnae Panhellenic. Also, since I work with the collegiate chapters, I can see the "bigger picture" on campus, whereas when I was in college, sure, I was all about helping the other girl...but not so much that she was as good as us. ;)

Exactly. I think a lot of women don't become very Panhellenic-minded until they're alumnae (although there are exceptions to this, of course).

And I loved what you said about chapters talking about each other during recruitment, TxGirl. When I was going through, it amazed me that girls would actually say "You're not going back to XYZ, are you? They're the [fill in the blank with snobby, chubby, etc.] house, you know." What a lack of class that displays, and how very against rush rules it is!

this is the MASSIVE problem with defferred recruitment. While it is a blessing that we get to see their college grades and know them a little better...it also means they've had 3 months to listen to every little piece of gossip by non members and members alike, and that's a problem.

AMEN! I can't imagine how horrible it would have been if they'd had all of fall semester to dirty rush at UGA!

I haven't read all the posts but think I spotted what I want to reiterate........

The first problem is that you get some PNMs that will not consider all the groups----that she has to have one certain group. She'll have to live with the possibility she won't get a bid. This is something that nothing we do will change---making rules can't change her attitude. You can't guarantee her a bid when she will only look at one group.

Whatever the new release figures do(and I honestly hope they actually work)......if grous keep inviting back too many PNMs to their parties to look good, there will always be PNMs who go bidless. If quota is 20 and they have 60 come to their pref parties, even the worst person wth math skills can figure out they all aren't going to get a bid!

regarding recruitment fees
 

We encouraged the implementation of recruitment fees at some schools up north here (where they don't need to house them or feed them because it's while school is in session) to discourage women who aren't serious about recruitment from going through. There are sometimes anti-Greek types who go through deliberately to cause trouble. There are others who sign up initially and end up never showing up. The women prepare for a certain number of PNMs and then half of those show up to first parties, which creates difficulties and unnecessary expenses for the chapters. So, you have a recruitment fee. Nothing outrageous, just enough to prevent women from signing up without thinking about what they're doing.

Dee

I would honestly say that at my school, unless a PNM is released for grades, she will almost always receive a bid. I have a hard time being sympathetic to girls at Miami who don't get a bid, because the vast majority of the time, they deemed themselves too good for certain chapters.

This wouldn't be to get a bid, but to make it to the next round. Say she was released by all chapters after the first invitational round- so no invites for the 2nd invitational. They might call to see if anyone would be interested in inviting her back (the stipulation is that she is usually "free" - i.e. not included in their release figure). If they released her b/c she was a snob/rude/brat or, as was the case one year, said F*@K every other work, then they don't push.

They're just try to keep her in if possible and give her another chance with the chapters. Maybe other chapters released her b/c she was a double XYZ leg, but XYZ released her b/c she didn't have grades. Since we don't know who is releasing who, this could easily happen.

But the silver lining in that is, when they HAVE heard all the stupid rumors and gossip and decide they want to be in your group anyway, you know they want to be with you for you.

(I scanned the thread but didn't read everything so if this was already mentioned, please forgive)

On SLU's campus the biggest problem is suiciding. For clarification, this is where, instead of listing a top three, the PNM only puts her number one. So, if she doesn't recieve a bid from XYZ, for whatever reason, she doesn't get any bid. Last year we had a ridiculous number of people suicide. Our Pi Chis (Panhel. Counsellors) had apparently underemphasized the importance of actually ranking your top three, even if you're not sure about 2 and 3. (Btw, we have 5 sororities, the nights go 5,5,3,2, Bid Day)

Anyway, we got lucky, a lot of girls suicided us, and they're fantastic members... but it can go very wrong.

at my undergrad school, pretty much every girl who wants to go greek can. i have never heard of a girl who rushed and preffed who hasn't gotten a bid.

i think a large part of the problem is that many sorority women don't understand that we are a group and we should try to get as many women as possible to go greek. once they decide to go greek, then we should work to fit each of these women into an org that they will be comfortable in AND that they will be able to bring their individuality and skills to.