Any Chi O's or Phi Sigs on here, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Chi O and Phi Sig nationally required their members to be in other extracurricular activities, not just in the sorority.

Delta Zeta does, too.

So does Alpha Xi Delta.

I don't get it either. If they have such an ideal in mind they should raise the campus requirement, not grade down based on a loose idea of what the 'right' gpa would be.

The reports make it sound like however you fill it out is how you'll be graded. There seems to be room for boasting and playing up what your chapter does, all groups did not do that. I think it is a shame that only two years of a poor rating can cause your recognition to be lost, that is a tad harsh. However, I don't know if this was the first year of this, but the chapters have to realize that this is how the school is gonna play so they need to play the game. Yes it sucks because the report was probably due at finals time, but if they wanna be there they'll have to bend cause I doubt the admin will...(I don't mean that to sound harsh and my best wishes go out to the chapters, but to me, that is the reality of Lehigh right now...)

Ditto. I've always heard great things about our chapter at Lehigh and never was under the impression that it was "struggling" under any of the traditional indicia of a "struggling" chapter!

I think the difference is that chapters that are 'good' as compared to other chapters in their organization aren't always 'good' when they are compared to the other GLOs on their campus. A chapter could have a high campus GPA that's say over the all greek average but it might not win them an award from Convention for scholastics. There are different scales & terms used for both.

Good point. If a chapter meets or exceeds their GLO's requirements etc., then the university should not be allowed to classify the chapter as *poor*. Unless there are very specific university violations that also apply to *all* students and they can be specifically linked to the chapter. i.e. every member is flunking out. As such, perhaps input from the IHQ should be used as part of the criteria as well.

I think its hard to take a house GPA of, say 3.0 and call it poor across the board. Perhaps that chapter has a high concentration of members in traditonally harder majors like Engineering, where a 3.0 is stellar.

The Lehigh site gives background info on how they did the evaluation.

The problem I see is that they aren't helpful in getting the "poor" chapters to improve. If the ratings info got out to PNMs, why would anyone want to join a chapter that has the Official Seal of Disapproval?

OTOH, glad to know that the AGD chapter is doing well. In the fall of 1974 when I was Extension Consultant I paid a cold call on the dean of students. He said that Lehigh had a strong fraternity heritage and now that it was coed he was getting letters from alumni saying, "My fraternity meant a lot to me. What can you do to provide a comparable experience for my daughter?" Seemed like fertile ground to me, and it was!

AGDAlum
(not only did the dean receive me, he took introduced me to the dean of women and we had lunch at the faculty club)

I read Alpha Phi's and was of course saddened to see them ranked as a poor chapter, but when I read through why, someone of it was just plain ridiculous.

Alpha Phi's chapter GPA improved from 7th to 2nd, and they were still considered poor. The administration's crap excuse was that while they went up in rankings, the GPA didn't go up all that much. But it was still above the all women's, all sorority, and every other worthless category's ranking.

It just seemed that because they were using their own resources and not the school's, they were being punished for it.

Hopefully all the chapters learn what sunshine the administration wants blown up their collective asses so that they will all get at least silver and gold rankings. It's really sad when bureaucracy undermines everything you do.

I just wonder how many other things are brought into this as opposed to Non Greeks. Charity Events, Greek Life, Etc.?

Woe is Me is Leighey such a special school that each student should be cookie cut to Their Ideals?:(

Ranking who will be in the Top or bottom is Stupid at the very least. Unless they are totally off of the board, this is the most stupid thing I have ever seen! I dont care what school it is!

Greeks duly have more Items opn their Plates than other students.

Did I miss who the "administration" were who completed this review? Is it on there somewhere? What are their credentials? Greek background? Etc Etc Etc!

The thing that gets me too....this schools Greek GPA's are a lot better than a lot of other campus's....someone is always going to be last on the grade list, right? Too bad bagels didn't buy off my profs! Sorry for the caddiness, but it's the end of the day! :)

I noticed the recomendation of inviting professors and staff to dinner a LOT in those reports. Also, it kept saying that BC fraternity should adopt the policy of XY fraternity because it is a "best practice". I think this is a bit shortsighted...just because it works for one chapter doesn't mean it will in another. And don't homogenize chapters. What I love about my girls is that we opperate differently than others. Lots of people are SHOCKED to hear that we get a discount on our dues if we make 3.5 or above. It's a great incentive, and it shows because our chapter average was above a 3.6!, But at the same time, doing this in another chapter might not do crap to help the GPA.

WOW! :eek: All I can say is that that DEFINATELY would have made me study more!!!! :)

This is a really good idea. Can you explain how much of a discount?

PM me if you want so we don't hijack the thread. I may just bring this to our exec board.

That's what a lot of us said! 90 percent of the chapter is on the Dean's List, and something like 80 percent are presidential scholars. Considering our dues are only 50 USD a quarter though...the 10 dollar discount may not seem like a lot, but man does it come in handy! The incentive is really good too, being a small chapter, EVERY grade counts. When one girl tanks, we all tank, because it just counts so much.

Basically, when it comes time to pay dues, you turn in a printout of your grades from last quarter to the treasurer's mailbox, along with your check. It's something like a 10 percent or 20 percent discount. With our dues being so cheap, it may not seem like a big deal to get 10 bucks here or there, but trust me, it counts. If we have a temporary increase in the dues (if say..we are in desperate need of a new stove) voted and approved, the percentage off stays the same.

ETA (again) : No discount for summer dues though, since they are already discounted for being..well..summer dues.

Yes. To me, that means: ASSKISSERY WILL GET YOU A BETTER RANKING. It's stupid. WTF does inviting professors and staff to dinner have to do with besides kissing ass? I'd rather be rated "poor" if it meant not giving in to crap like that.

Found out good info tonight!!
 

I had a scheduled meeting with an FHQ staff member tonight and brought up this topic. Here's a summary of what she said....

Right now, all NPC (sorry, we didn't discuss IFC) orgs are facing accreditation programs like this all over the country. The reason they are causing problems is much like what we have found with LeHigh, the universities are requiring their own standards and pushing them onto NPC org's. Thus, NPC's are having to defend their stance and negotiate with the university's...almost in a fashion to hold onto their identities and self-governing.

She said there is an NPC agreement that states no university can require an NPC to raise a GPA, but does the NPC governing body have teeth when their membership is dependant upon universities? She is reviewing a document now from an eastern college that also impacts how the school thinks a new member program should run, telling the NPC's what they should put in them and that they can last no more than 6 weeks per the college requirement. If the NPC's do not follow these mandates, they can/will unrecognize the chapter. How in the world can a college govern an NPC's new member program???? I'm personally impressed that have the balls (pardon) to think they can institute this kind of mandate!!!!

Personally, I believe an accreditation program on campuses can be a benefit, BUT where do you draw the line and who's standards do you follow? I know my org has an internal accreditation that is difficult to achieve a perfect or near perfect score, but it is an honor to get it and something each chapter is measured by. I assume other groups has this in place too.

Anyway, this is the basics of our conversation, but she did say there is quite a lot of noise in the NPC community about it.

Re: Found out good info tonight!!
 

Did she mean overall (i.e. for all of A Xi D) or for that university? What I had always been told is that if there are two rules, you have to go with the stricter of the two - i.e. the school doesn't mind drinking in the dorm but the sorority does so you can't. The sorority says min average to pledge is 2.0 but the school says 2.5 so you use 2.5.

I think in this case it's not so much that they are asking the groups to raise their requirements across the board, rather that they are being capricious and arbitrary (tm Cosmo Kramer) in their praise and recommendations in this area.

Re: Found out good info tonight!!
 

You are right....there is a large trend toward universities having/creating their own accreditation processes for their organizations. Part of this stems from the "Call for Values Congruence"...basically university Presidents didn't see GLOs living up to their stated standards and expectations, and called us (collectively) on it. Let's be honest...it's not hard to see why these accreditation programs are happening...our host institutions need to see proof that we are an asset for the institution in a concrete, measurable way. I'm not sure that GLOs were providing that proof.

Where we are shooting ourselves in the foot is by taking the stance that university administrators should "butt out" and not have any input on how we run our chapters. Granted, they shouldn't be making rules up for us...but don't you think that if they really understood what went on in our chapters, they wouldn't have to come up with all of these standards and expectations? What if they knew what our chapter accreditation programs were? What if they could see all of that information...what if we got their input on these programs? I'd bet that they would use those programs instead of creating redundant ones. However, administrators should also be looking at the GLO's accreditation standards when creating their own campus program as well.

Guys...I'm telling you....as a Greek advisor (the dreaded "campus administrator!!") and as a National volunteer for her own sorority....we've got to stop this "US vs THEM" thought process. Yes, there are some universities out there that aren't willing to work with the Greeks. But the LARGE majority of universities want to have a good working relationship with their Greek students and the National counterparts. The more we keep them at arms length, the more they are going to push.

The actions of our past members are what has gotten us into this situation....now it's up to our actions to get us out. My suggestion: If your campus is talking about implementing an accreditation/standards program, smile and say "Great idea! We already do this for our National Organization. Why don't we have a representative from each chapter come together and bring their National accreditation programs and use those as a basis for the campus program?"

I'd love for my students to reevaluate and improve their program criteria each year. As much as they talk about it during the school year, they never give me any suggestions or input on it. Who else is going to come up with this criteria if they don't???:confused: It's up to me to review/revise over the summer, when students are away...then they complain about it during the school year. No action...just lip service. To me, that's disappointing.

PsychTau

PsychTau2 -- I agree with you on the fact that greeks and administrators must learn to work together and cooperate to work for a better tomorrow. I also agree that it wouldn't hurt for the organizations to inform the adminstration of their rules and such. Every two years our fraternities and sororities are evaluated through a "Greek Chapter Asessment Tool" (GCAT) and rated on various criteria. However, it seems that semester after semester and year after year, the adminstration keeps expecting more and more from the Greeks. Not to say that we shouldn't be improving each year, but when other campus clubs,groups,organizations are left unchecked and unreprimanded, it creates a double standard which is bound to create tension.

Perhaps it is just my school, but the administration is seemingly unwilling to work with the students from GLOs. They don't care about individual accreditation programs and expect everybody to conform to their standards. It just seems to contradict the diversity and free-though process which college is supposed to stimulate.

While I try to be objectionable it most instances, it seems as though the adminstrations at various schools are going to be in for a rude awakening when GLOs have finally had enough of the suppression by the university. When people claim that GLOs and administrations need to learn to work together, it always seems that it's expected for the GLO to give up more sovereignty than the adminstration. How much of this and how long will it take before the current Greek system is unrecognizeable?

But this is why is it is better to step up before the admins begin to make major changes. If the schools proposes a new evaluation system, the best thing we can do is say just what Psych Tau said- 'great, let's get our nat'l offices together and come up with something that works for both parties' Most universities worry about the risk management that greeks provide, but they also realize the benefits on campus including alumni giving and support (to both the college and org), creating a sense of home (which is supposed to be one of the most important factors for this generation) and usually* greeks as a group have higher GPAs, provide community interaction and a sense of campus spirit. To cut greek orgs across the board is not an easy decision to make.

We are not the french club, or sci fi house, we are selective and private organization who are supposed to aim for higher standards and work for the greater good. If we run away and claim foul by school admins, it seems contrary to the general ideals of our orgs. It is a parasitic relationship, we need the schools to survive and they benefit from our presence.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you want control of the evaluation programs take part in their creation. Bring in alumni and nat'l reps to help make sure your voice is heard. If you sit and wait for the school to give you free reign, you might want to just mail your charter back to HQ, it isn't going to happen. They take on liability by recognizing us, we have to meet standards and exceed them. Maybe you have to blow some sunshine, but that is the game and it happens in the real world, it is time to learn how.

Just my 2c.

Re: Found out good info tonight!!
 

This is one of the things that bothers me the most....

I see no reason why the universities should have any say in a GLO's new member program! As far as I am concerned, this should be completely up to the EO of that org. I understand hazing rules and regulations, but the actual programs that new members go through should not be made up by the university.

I can understand the university maybe making all greek new members go through some kind of orientation about greek life in general... Maybe what the greek system means to the university, and programs about scholastics, and the dangers of binge drinking and hazing and all that. But, the majority of new member education REALLY should be done by the chapter in the way that their nationals' sees fit.

I also think that if they are making these kinds of mandates for greek life, are they also doing such things for OTHER orgs on campus? There are alot of student organizations on campuses, and I don't see how it is right to impose regulations on one area if you're not going to include other areas. What about greek letter orgs that are not mainly social? Is an org like APO (technically a service org if I'm not mistaken) subject to this scrutiny as well?

Sorry if this post doesn't make much sense... it is just a little upsetting to me.

Oh, and I also think that "asskissery" is about the best word I've heard in awhile. :p

well, i know my alma matter is not far behind on a program such as this. when i was a phi in 1995, we had a mandatory 4 week max. pledge period...as mandated by the school. it lasted a few years and in the past 3ish yrs it has been changed to 6.

i really think the best course of action is for the national organizations to get together with schools when they are going to move to something like this. a national rep from each org present on the campus should be invited to come and discuss it in a roundtable fashion. the reps could describe the criteria that they currently use to grade each chapter and try to find some type of compromise.

ideally, i think that the hq of each org on the campus should submit the grade it gave to the chapter. they could send along the criteria by which the chapters are graded, the overall score and the "name" the org uses for that score. no specific info about where the chapter received/lost points.


i also wonder if the schools are really just trying to get more adult supervision into the fraternities and sororities.

Update Sept. 5 '05: Student paper Article on Lehigh Rankings
 

The Brown and White has an article on the rankings, the reactions, and some of the rewards for the chapters that got high rankings.

http://www.bw.lehigh.edu/story.asp?ID=18793

Prospective Greek members can scout houses based on the reports to see which houses are worth rushing.

Last year’s statistics show there is a strong correlation between performance and rush. Fraternities with a poor rating had an average of 8.25 new members, while gold and silver fraternities had an average of 13.3 new members during the spring 2005 rush season.

“Lehigh students recognize quality and they are voting with their feet,” Smeaton said. “Lehigh students are discerning consumers. They’re making choices about where they can have a positive experience.”

This really really bothered me in the article. How can having a 2.2 minimum GPA vs. a 2.25 minimum GPA, or not hosting faculty teas, mean that prospective rushees shouldn't consider your org. Arg...

It seems that this could create a lot of discord among the Greeks, when ABC is getting a bunch of recognition and rewards, while your chapter is being punished. If a chapter is struggling, the last thing it needs is to get its housing yanked and its every flaw published. Especially because it doesn't even seem that these chapters are truly struggling, if the members were shocked at the ratings they got. By this rationale, the chapter that went off campus could keep its housing (because it got an acceptable rating), but one with enough members to require housing could lose it.

Wow I'm so glad I came across this. The chapter I advise is having this very same problem with their greek advisor. She has come in and pretty much mandated this 5 star program (interesting to see other colleges/universitites are calling it the same thing). What has bothered me and has caused me to take this to the ADPi District Panhellenic Relations Director is some of the information it is requiring from the chapters. She did a lot of digging for me regarding what is and is not allowed as per the NPC Green Book and I'm passing this on to you guys in hopes that it helps any other chapter dealing with the same thing:

* On page UA-3 in the UNANIMOUS AGREEMENTS it states:

"National Panhellenic Conference denouces the ranking or categorization of chapters determined by administrative personnel according to a chapter's compliance with University standards or guidelines".
So basically while administrations can give out awards to GLOs, they cant promote it to the outside community and/or new members.

* Section UA-1 of UNANIMOUS AGREEMENTS states:
..."No action that infringes on the sovereignty, rights, or privileges of individual NPC fraternities...1) Requiring fraternity chapters to maintain a specific scholastic grade point average".

So requiring a chapter to maintain a minimum gpa is not allowed. You can say that each member must have a specific gpa in order to join or remain active but that is left up to the chapter itself not for the adminstration to govern.

* Also this was more of an issue at the university I'm dealing with in particular...basicaly the greek advisor came in and said I am Supreme ruler and I pass this 5 star program and anyone who questions this tough! It was never voted on at an Panhellenic mtg so if this is also an issue for other colleges/universities do know that
On page UA-1 on the section regarding UNANIMOUS AGREEMENTS it states:

"Except in routine matters, a College Panhellenic Council and officers of a College Panhellenic Council shall act only upon a vote of the delegate body after referral to the member fraternity chapters".

This subject strikes quite the nerve with me because it has caused nothing but trouble since it came out. We're basically being told to ignore our International guidelines and to follow a specific university's rules and if dont do abide by these the chapter will be put on probation and will not be allowed to participate in recruitment. I get the whole trying to encourage a positive greek community and enhance the experience for the better but some of these just end up being more paperwork and as far as the rankings go end up being a popularity contest. Argh I could go on forever about this!

ETA: There have been so many red flags raised with this program that it has gone to the ADPi Grand President and our national NPC delegate and is being investigated. Just thought I should let you all know that just because an administation is trying to play bully it doesnt mean you have to take it.

Lehigh U. Fraternity & Sorority "Accreditation" Rankings for the 2006-07 Academic Year

The report is available at

http://www.lehigh.edu/~indost/greek/...ion/index.html

Three fraternity chapters and four sorority chapters made "gold" (highest) level. The other sororities, and most of the other fraternities, made "silver" level.

Greek ranking programs, and the stupidity thereof
 

Clarion's "Greek Plan" ranks the groups Gold, Silver, or Bronze.

Of the 4 fraternities left there this past year, 3 got a silver, and one got nothing. The one that got nothing was the winner of Greek Week. One of the silver ones just had their charter pulled by their nationals for repeated violations.

HUH????