And of course Dumbledore knew what was going to happen. He always knew everything that was going on. His death was probably quite planned. He probably even thought it was quite "clever".

Dumbledore's picture now resides in the headmasters office with all the previous headmasters/mistresses that have died. I think it's safe to say that DD is dead.

After reading "Horcruxes," I was dead set on thinking that Harry was holding one. However your idea was the very idea that was giving me doubt. DD said that all Horcruxes need to be rid of before LV can die. So essentially, if Harry were one, he'd have to die before LV... then there would be no one to kill LV... unless it was some sort of combined effort. However, the Horcrux kinda supports the "hybrid" theory that was mentioned in the Speculation thread a while ago.

Anyway... I found it highly amusing that Bill and Fleur ended up engaged. Especially since 1) I didn't think them meeting in book 4 would ever grow into anything and 2) Bill and Fleur are exes in a post-Hogwarts fanfic I read last year. So it was a little shocking to read. Tonks and Remus... never saw it coming.

I think the rest of the ships were in there to satisfy the burning questions (and wars) people have over ships... and the fact that teens are probably reading this as well, so of course you have to throw in some teenage romance in there.

I'm really curious about book 7 and where it's going to take place, considering that Hogwarts will probably be more in the background than in previous books.

Overall, this book probably can be nicknamed "Harry Potter and the Large Amount of Backstory." It wasn't my favorite, but I figure you needed this book to see the end in book 7. Good for reference. I'll probably have to read it again.

Anyone read the clue/hints from Mugglenet about Book 6. I remember that it said that we would find out why Lily was very good at charms. I don't think Rowling meant magical charms. I kept thinking they were charms: as in "your boyfriend could charm the pants off your grandmother." Slughorn kept mentioning that she was "cheeky." :)

Ok, I had a thought this morning in the shower (yes, that's where I do my best thinking).

I agree that DD was stalling Draco until Snape got there.

Dumbledore said in CoS that "I will never really be gone as long as there are people here who are still loyal". What better way to GUARANTEE loyalty to him (i.e., he'll never be gone) than to make sure that the person who kills him (or appears to have in case it was the poison from the horcrux that really did it) is the one most hated by Harry and everyone else?

And yes, DD is definitely dead for the reasons stated above.

It was what we know so far about books 6 and 7. It said that we will learn more about Lily and that it will have significance that he wand was especially good for charms.... If you remember, Ollivander had mentioned to Harry (in book 1?) that his mother's wand was especially good for charms.

I assumed that since we didn't learn anything like that in this book, that it will be in book 7.

What we know about books 6 and 7
(go down and click on FACTS)

just finished...
 

So I finished the book at around 1am last night.

I'm all excited that I get to post my thoughts in a thread I started. LOL.

I'm going to post what I think, then go read what everyone else thought. :D

First off, I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED the book!!!!!!!

I was absolutely shocked when it was told that Snape got the job of Defense Against the Dark Arts. Never saw that coming since he had been denied the job for the last five books (and technically longer than that).

I've always been so unsure about Snape, which is what I think JK wanted. Is he good? Is he evil? I knew from the end of OotP that he was supposed to be "undercover" with the Death Eaters. So when this book started I was "weary" of what he was doing and the fact that he gave an "unbreakable vow" to Malfoy's mom.

My next comment proves what an amazing writer JK is, if they had been real people I would have been screaming at Ron and Hermoine, "would you just kiss already". They were only characters in the book and I just wanted to scream that. LOL.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm kind of getting annoyed that she (JK) always writes that Ron and Hermoine don't really trust Harry's intuition throughtout the entire book(s) and then at the end when something happens, they trust him. He was saying throughout the entire book that something was up with Malfoy and Snape and NO ONE believed it. They just thought it was an obsession. And it turned out to be right in the end!

I wanna know who R.A.B. is. I spent a few minutes (in between tears of shock) wondering and trying to think who the heck it was.

I was shocked that Snape killed Dumbledore. Yes, I cheated and read page 606 in advance but there was no backstory, I didn't know what had happened. I never in my wildest dreams would have expected Snape to do that. But no matter what I knew Malfoy wouldn't. He basically stated that he had too otherwise Voldemort would kill him and his parents.

I also never expected Snape to be the "half blood prince", but once the background was given, it made perfect sense. I too would have been questioning Dumbledore's motives for trusting Snape (like Harry did).

I really liked the ending. I really liked how Ron and Hermoined stated, without backing down, that where ever Harry was going they were going with him. No if, ands or buts about it. That shows true friendship and courage for what they are about to embark on.

Obviously book 7 won't be about their last year at Hogwarts, it will be about Ron, Hermoine and Harry searching for the Horcruxes. I have a feeling that other members of the DA will end of joining them. The reason I say that is because those characters wouldn't be "involved" in the story if they didn't. I have a feeling that they (Neville, Luna and Ginny are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head) will be the "support" to Ron, Harry and Hermoine's endeavors. Like they (Neville, Luna and Ginny) will be behind someplace (perhaps Hogwarts) doing the research to help them locate and destroy the Horcruxes and then locate Voldemort and Snape.

I think there will be a lot more death in book 7 and it won't just happen at the end of the book. I say that because 7 is it. It is the culmination and let's face it what they are doing is extremely dangerous. Going after Voldemort and Snape and the other Death Eaters. I think there will be quite a few casualties along the path of the book until the end when it will be determined if Harry survives his attack on Voldemort.

So those are my thoughts. I shall now go back and read everyone elses. (I just didn't want to get too jumbled with what I thought and what everyone else thought, so that is why I decided to read after :))

I just thought about something... at least the DADA teacher "curse" still lives on. Snape was made the DADA teacher, and he went running off and left his position. So now the position is, yet again, vacant.

more thoughts ...
 

after reading the whole thread...



I never thought of it that way with Snape. But that does make sense.

Also never thought that Harry might be one of the Horcruxes. Maybe that was an unintentional mishap by Voldemort. His soul transferred to Harry by accident when he tried to kill him (after he had in fact killed his parents).



I do remember in CoS that DD mentioned something about Harry being able to use the Gryffindor sword because he is a true Gryffindor. The only issue then becomes, how could he destroy himself to in turn kill Voldemort?

Good point about the eye thing. For the last three books we have been “hearing” from everyone that he “has his mother’s eyes”. There has got to be a reason for that.

I now need to go back and re-read OotP so I can find the part about the locket. Maybe that is why DD did make the huge point at the beginning of the book making sure Harry did in fact “own” the Black pocessions (spelling issues here). If in fact the locket is still in the house, Harry now owns it.



I think when it comes to Draco that he will either have turned completely to the “dark side” (LOL) because of witnessing the murder, but knowing JK and her twists, it might just be that Draco decides he can’t be evil because of what he witnessed. We all read, that he did not want to kill him, he was just terrified for his own life and his parents lives. He also didn’t believe that DD or OotP could protect him. Maybe he’ll end of siding with Harry because Snape did tell the other Death Eaters to back off of Harry because he was for Voldemort. Harry might end up being a bit moresafe to be with than else-ware.

As for the whole Snape killing DD. When I read it (late last night) I could tell that he was stalling, but I wasn’t sure why. He was definitely reaching Malfoy’s ‘good’ conciousness by telling him that he doesn’t have to do it. That DD can protect him and his parents, etc…

As for the theory about Snape, now that I think back it does make sense. It was extremely OOC for DD to beg for his life when he has always said that death is a part of life. Although as someone mentioned (not sure who know) by Snape killing him, no matter what the reason behind it, the entire wizarding community is going to want his head, so to speak. Harry wants revenge, it’s that simple. He’s not going to understand, nor probably want to listen to anything Snape has to say about killing DD.

I’m drawing a blank here but who is Regulas Black?

OK, now the shock has worn off...
 

I can finally post. I finished at around 4:20am (which is when my sis wakes up to go to work) and had to pretend to be sleeping so she wouldn't ask why I was sitting on the couch in the middle of the night, sobbing like a baby. I just went to pieces, it broke my heart to see DD die, everyone's reactions reminded me of when I lost my grandmother. Everyone silently crying at his funeral brought back all those memories, I couldn't get it together for the last 2 chapters.

But, after I had rested a bit, this is what I can recall...

Harry and Ginny are DEFINITELY reminiscent of James and Lily. Harry is the spitting image of James and you can't tell me Ginny isn't like Lily, with bright red hair and always sticking up for those who're being made fun of (Lily/Snape--Ginny/Luna). They're going to get back together after V is gone and they're going have a long future together I bet. And I don't think there was too much teenage stuff going on at all, remember the primary age group for whom this book is for (and also what age group it's about). Can you honestly tell me that, at 16, you or at least your friends' love lives weren't extra soap opera-ish? Just being realistic to me! I also believe in Hermione/Ron and Remus/Tonks.

I agree, there's no way Harry is a Horcrux, then he'd have to die before V and there's no one else who could kill V, which would prove the prophecy false (unless Harry's the one meant to die, which wouldn't happen, this is a children's book, good guy wins). Kudos to whoever though of Regulus Black, I wracked my brain and couldn't come up with a name.

DD begging for death rather than life makes much more sense. I was still a mess seeing him go, but...sneaky bastard ('scuse me, Lord), I hope Snape turns out bad, then I can go on with the tirade in my head.

Now I've got all my thoughts out, I'll go back and answer with my theories.

Ok, I'm back. I think that when Harry goes to see his parents' graves, he'll undoubtedly search out his old home (is that what Godrick's Hollow was?) and that'll delve into his past, what his parents did and the big "revelation" about Lily (thanx, Mugglenet).

Malfoy doesn't have it in him to turn completely evil, but does he have it in him to turn good? To turn from dark power and fight the good fight is asking a lot of this boy.

I've just thought: Is Harry a pure-blood or not? I always thought so since he was born to a witch and wizard, but since Lily's Muggle-born...? Does whatever his grandparents are matter, or just the fact that his parents were a witch and wizard? I just was thinking, Malfoy did try to befriend him on that first day, and he always called Hermione a "mudblood" but didn't say anything about Harry, but no doubt he knows Harry's lineage somewhat...Also, since James was pureblood and they've got limited selection, do you reckon Harry is related to the Malfoys in some way, like Sirius was?

I'm trying to think what the other Horcrux will be, if not from Gryffindor (as Dumbledore thinks he couldn't have got something other than the sword). I need to read it again once I've pulled myself together, I'm still a bit shaky.

Oh, btw, Regulus Black is Sirius' older brother who died awhile back.

He was actually Sirius' younger brother.... mundane detail, but there ya go.

In book 5 when DD talks about the prophecy (OOtP page 842):

"And notice this Harry. He chose, not the pureblood (which according to his creed is the only kind of wizard worth being or knowing), but the half-blood like himself. He saw himself in you before he had ever seen you."

So DD has refered to Harry as a half-blood. I guess that is somewhere between being muggle-born and pureblood.

oh when I post my thoughts, its going to be a novel, I have so many ideas and I have to check some facts before I make a fool out of myself.

but I like what everyone is postings, it is triggering thoughts in my head. I also want to re-read the series again, so it wont be for a while, I start tonight!

*slaps head* DUH!!! That was one of the major parts of the prophecy, can't believe I forgot. Thanx, I don't know where my head is.

One question that I have about the text-book within the story... the Half-Blood Prince's book - if it was Snape's mother's book, then why was it still at the school? why did Snape use his mother's book?

No, No, No....

It was Snape's book, he is the Half-blood Prince because Snape's mom is a pureblood and her maiden name is Prince, a respected Pureblood family

I kind of have a feeling that Snape left it there on purpose. Maybe as a reminder to him, who knows. I don't think he probably would have expected a student to use the book. But then again if it was so important to him, he would have made sure to remove it from his old potions classroom prior to taking over DADA. Which is why I think he left it there on purpose. I think he wanted someone to find it. I just don't think he ever expected that someone to be Harry.

But the book was 50 years-old... Harry looked at the publishing date to determine if the book was was his one of his parents, or one of his parent's friends - which is why I personally discounted Snape as the owner up until the end of the story....

but Snape was "poor" coming from a "mixed" marriage :) remember. He undoubtedly started out with a used book.

I was thinking, what if the book was Voldemort's? If he was a year or two ahead of Snape and Snape got his book second-hand? So much of the story centers around the book, maybe it's more important than we think. I'm just trying to figure the ages of all these people. V and Hagrid were in school at the same time, in the same year I think. And Hagrid knew James from school, but did they meet before or after he took up groundskeeper? If not, then wouldn't James and the gang been at school the same time as Tom? How much older is he than they? (weird, thinking of this horrible people being a young man...bit like imagining what Marilyn Manson used to be like) That would tell us if it's possible the book was able to belong to Lord V. Just a thought.

We know that Hagrid is around the same age as Voldemort. I figure Hagrid is pretty old- must be in his 60's. In book 2- The COS was opened "50 years ago" and Hagrid was accused of setting the creature on the students. So we know that he knew Voldemort, cause that is basically who got him expelled.

He must have known James and Lily and that whole gang after he was groundskeeper- Because there is no way that James and Lily would have been in there 40's or 50's when Harry was born. It just wouldn't make sense.

Also, I'm re-reading GOF and this is something that baffled me:

Mr. and Mrs. Weasley are obviously older than James and Lily would be, because they have much older children and all that- but they must still be younger than Hagrid cause I also don't see them being that old. BUT, before the last task of the tri-wizard tournament, Harry takes Mrs. W and Bill on a tour of Hogwarts, and it mentions that she remenices (sp?) about the groundskeeper before Hagrid.... So that kinda confused me. Wouldn't she and Mr. W have been at school sometime AFTER Hagrid was made groundskeeper?

I may be thinking WAY too much into that, but if someone has an explanation, I'd love to hear it.

P.S. Sorry for hijacking the HBP discussion thread. ;)

Yes, I would think they would have been there after Hagrid and V because I would think they are only around 50 (while as you said Hagrid and V are around 60). Now of course, the actor playing Hagrid in the movies looks nowhere near that age.

She is younger than James/Lily though, she also said in GoF that the Whomping Willow was planted after she left (and we know when/why that was planted).

That's just too weird. My math puts Hagrid at around 64 and he was kicked out in his 3rd year - V is older by a few years. Was Hagrid fully the groundskeeper then, or did he start as an assistant (not remembering)? That could be it......

Or are the Weasley's just older than we all think?

James and Lily are MWPP generation was were all born circa 1960 and entered Hogwarts in 1971. James and Lily married right out of Hogwarts and died young, no older than 22 when they died. Remus is 37-38 in HBP.

The Weasleys were probably born during or right after Grindelwald in the mid-late 1940s. I put them between 1945-1950ius. Since Bill was born in 1970, Molly and Arthur need to have been out of Hogwarts by 1968. Dumbledore didn't become Headmaster of Hogwarts until 1970 at the earliest and I think he made Hagrid groundskeeper when he ascended to the Headmaster's chair.

Whew.. I'm an HP genealogy nerd.

ETA: Hp Lexicon Wizard Pages would also back this up.

that makes her older than james and lily.

That's probably on purpose. These people are wizards, they probably don't look at all the age that we would expect them to so they hire young actors to reflect that (brilliant, that woman :D). How old is Dumbledore? When we saw him in the Pensieve when the CoS was opened (now 54 years ago) he was still old, but his hair still had color. Given Hagrid's not the least bit gray (not that we know) that'd place him well over 60 at the time, add 54 to that and Dumbledore is one old wizard.

So I was thinking about the horcruxes last night (as I was going to bed, go figure) and I had this thought.

What if one of them is hidden in the old Riddle house? Now, here is my logic behind it. Tom may have killed his muggle family and became Lord Voldemort but we do know in OotP he is at the Riddle house with Peter (I think) because he is trying to regain his strength (since he had just been reborn in essence in GoF). So since he is at the Riddle house it is obviously something he has not given up or allowed anyone to live in or own. With that being said I think the house would be perfect to hide a mundane trinket that serves as a horcrux. Mainly because most would assume that Voldemort would want nothing to do with the house since he renounced his muggle father and family.

Other than that the only other places I could think of are with his other death eaters. Since Lucius had the diary (unknowing that it was in fact a horcrux) maybe he gave horcruxes to other "trusted" death eaters.

Voldemort has to be around 65-66. When the CoS was opened Tom was probably around a 5th-6th year.

Dumbledore is around 150 years old.

Yes, that would be a typo on my part...........

(Disclaimer: I'm not a Potter fanatic, just someone who reads the books...)

HC I was ticked off that I'd gotten to page 480 in the book and nothing interesting had happened up until that point? I didn't even care about the ending. I understand that this book was to shore up our expectations for the final book, but man, it's been a long time since I read something this dull. :(

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!! YOU GIT...YOU PRAT...HOW DARE YOU I OUGHT TO HEX YOU TO PIECES! *screams levicorpus and laughs wildly*




Hehe, just kidding :D. *liberacorpus*


I'm trying to think, was there something that Riddle's dad was wearing when we saw him? A broach, a cloak, anything that he might have kept? If there is, he may have been wearing it when Voldy killed him, that'd be the perfect horcrux. I'll look at the beginning when he's hiding with Wormtail in the Riddle house, perhaps there's something he's holding, some object mentioned...I don't know how weird this is, but does anyone else feel like if they figure this out they can somehow get the message to Harry to help him in the next book?

I think the locket that was supposed to be in the middle of the lake is the locket that was found in OoTP along with what Harry considered to be a vile of blood.

i think this shows that she wasn't ready to die for her son...she loved him, sure - but she still let him do it - she didn't act as Lily did - and step in front of the Dark Lord - she cared, but not enough to die for her son.

i don't malfoy truly knows what love is.

i take offense

Doesn't exactly carry much significance on a grandeur level though, would it?

I think some brilliant theories have been expounded. Well played on the R.A.B. and locket in the old Black family home...is it possible that only a slytherin can open that locket...or an heir?

I had genuinely thought DD was alive up to the point his portrait was on the wall. And I can't believe HP didn't try to talk to DD through the portrait because as we know they can talk...with him so close HP would definitely have tried to wake him & chat.

I thought DD would have had a horcrux...even though it was out of charachter for him...seeing as love is his ultimate goal...splitting your soul would not likely be an express route to love. I thought that maybe the book was the horcrux for DD.

I feel that Snape is good still too - DD is not just some old fool...he was so adament that Snape was on his side.

it's going to be a hard 2 yrs

I don't think it's possible that Dumbledore had a horcrux. The only way to create one is by killing someone, and Dumbledore would never kill anyone. I think that Rowling killed him off so that Harry would fight Voldemort on his own.

Do you guys think that Hogwarts will still be open for year 7? My friend was saying that since Draco managed to get Death Eaters into there and with Dumbledore being killed there, parents are going to think that it's not the safe place it once was and aren't going to want to send their kids there.

Now that I've had time to think more, even though I want to kill Snape (he he) there was a reason for doing what he did. DD was trying to talk Malfoy out of killing him (and then prodding him to do it). He didn't do that for Snape. He just told him to do it.

As for DD being a horcrux, yes it is hard to imagine DD killing out of cold blood, but we don't know. We really only know bits and peices of his past. He could have. It could have been a death eater. But on the other hand if Voldemort was able to figure out ways to split his soul into 7 horcruxes, maybe he figured out a way to split his soul into a person, without their knowledge. That being the case if DD figured it out the only way to defeat Voldemeort would have been to sacrifice himself "for the greater good".

JK has a reason for everything she writes in the books, there is a reason behind DD being killed by Snape. We just won't know the reason for another two years and boy does that suck!!!

I love Harry Potter and I totally agree with you Sistermadly!! I felt like the whole book was building up to something huge (which it did, don't get me wrong)-- but then it ended in less than 100 pages!!

In the other books all of the major incidents happened mid-book and then the book finished out with the solution to the problem!! Its almost as if there was not a major incident-- like in GofF with the buildup to the tournament-- and then the tournament started and all of the problems started-- and then in the end they fought off the bad people-- and then the year ended!!

I felt like this book is a complete pre-qual to the final book-- like it was the first 30 chapters of Book 7!! I feel as if we were reallllllly left hanging in this book way more than in the past books!!

Just my 2 cents!! Please do not cast any spells upon me!! ;)

I do agree with you. As I stated earlier, this should have been called "Harry Potter and the Large Amount of Backstory." It wasn't the most "interesting" of the 6 (I kinda liked book 5, thank you very much...) but felt it was a necessary evil.

FYI... if you go to Mugglenet, there is the second half of the webmaster's interview with JKR posted. VERRRRRRYYYYY interesting part about RAB and Sirius' mirror. http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview2.shtml
It's kinda toward the middle. And she basically shoots down any theory of a H/Hr relationship... which if you couldn't figure out after this book, that's sad. (Though I still hold out for fanfic. :))

I think with this being the Penultimate book, we needed the back story in order to move the present tense and set up Harry (blah, blah, blah).

I think it was supposed to be low key, I mean after the Drama of OotP and the devestation that takes place in the last few chapters of the book, we needed this "vacation".

You know...the calm before the storm?

We have 2 years to prepare and I just think...this is going to be doosy (sp) of a ride, this last book and boy do I want it to be around 1000 pages, so I can read it in 3 days

I thought Marvolo's black and gold ring that Dumbeldore was wearing on and off in was a Horcrux wasn't it? As the trophy for the Riddle murders?

I was. But Dumbledore destroyed it.

Right. So the Riddle manor wouldn't be a horcrux...why have two trophies of the same thing?