I have pm'ed 2 people (for myself) with regards to possible help and that offer was posted, I did ask if this was ok to do so and they didn't have to reply if they did not wish to, it was a good thing and a friendship developed from it.

I also pm'ed 2 people asking for advice on how to "weed out the crazies", but I never heard back from them, which was ok, I also clearly stated that is was not for my own pursuit, but I took it upon myself to help someone else out (and it was my offer, they did not ask me), I did come up with some questions and it went from there.

I have been as honest as I could in my AI thread. I stated that I had my group at the bottom of my list but they were still there.

In the very beginning, I think I emailed 3 groups and once I heard from Urania I immediately stopped all pursuit of the other groups that I had contacted, when I did get an email back from one of the others, with a kind, but firm no, I was very happy that, that happened and that I got a response!.

During my "second" foray, I contacted 3 groups, 1, “my home” group (after some very long, hard talks with myself), 1 group that is STILL a dream org for me and another group. I called one of the groups to get some questions answered, when I didn't hear from them, I took that as a que that they were not meant for me. Then I was torn between the “home” group and the dream group (who seemed very receptive to my pursuit), again with some tears and very brutal honest talks with myself, I decided that I would only pursue my “home”, because I was in denial about where my heart belonged. I stopped with them immediately! and it was again the correct decision (man, sometimes fate has you go on a long and twisting road).

I still have doubts (I have to, until I get that formal invitation, nothing is for sure) but I know that they are my home.....

Okay having read this whole thread the only solution I could really think of would be kind of drastic.

And that would be have a moderator from every sorority that does AI in the forum.

I know ADPi AI. I have the paperwork. I have contacts. But I know NOTHING about other sororities AI.

The reason I say, one from each sorority that does AI (which yes might seem a little unreasonable) is because those mod's could go and talk, in the mod forum, and discuss threads. Plus, with one from each group, you are well versed in your own and you don't have to make a guess on someone elses. Like let's say Blueangel and myself are mods. She can ask about ADPi and I can ask about ZTA, (this is not to say that you can go off and give information that you shouldn't be sharing with non-sisters, ie. ritual). This is just talking process.

I hope I'm making sense, I have a feeling I'm not so please feel free to question my logic. I will not be offended, just please don't yell at me and respect my opinion. :D

It is NOT as common as it appears here. Of all members of Alpha Phi (over 160,000), only 0.9% are alumnae initiates. Less than ONE percent.

For me though the whole point to the subforum is so that we are aware and open to change. We are starting a new program within a few months to really educate alumnae associations on AI.

For the few who don't understand or want to learn the process involved of AI and expect sisters/brothers on greekchat to help them out, by far doesn't outweigh the many who do do the research.


Plus, someone made the perfect point earlier, this is just like the rush forum. PNM's are always posting asking for advice. I think the problem is is that we are assuming that because they are a PNM (which most are 18-19) they don't understand how to get the information they are looking for, but a PNAM is older so therefore they must know how to get the information and that generalization is just inaccurate.


I do understand though that FR has basic rules that chapters across the US/Canada have to follow because they were set up by NPC/NPHC/NIC but AI is different per each chapter. That is why I suggested what I suggested in my prior post.

Hi everyone,

I have added some "disclaimers" to the AI Roll Call List. Do you think they will be helpful?

.....Kelly :)

-----------------



~~~ Please keep in mind the following points: ~~~

1) This informational list is presented as a means of celebrating those who have achieved alumni initiation. Out of the hundreds of thousands of fraternity and sorority members in existance, only a small handful are initiated as alumni. Please do not see this long list of names and be fooled into thinking that it is easy to become an AI. The reason that there are many people on this list is because GreekChat has a very large membership base.

2) Just because one may see certain sororities represented more frequently on the list, this does NOT imply that they are "easier" to get into. I highly encourage you to evaluate all of your options and seek out an organization you identify with in your heart. Do not go for one because "it looks like they alum initiate more people".

3) Please be advised that this list is for information purposes only - this is NOT a list of people who are willing to sponsor potential AIs. Please refrain from contacting strangers on the internet and asking them if they can help sponsor you. There are several threads in this forum which offer lots of helpful advice on how to approach this process.

isn't there a list of people who are willing to help potetial ais find information about their glos? maybe that should be stickied to the top with a note that says, the following gc members have agreed to give advice as to how to pursue ai with their orgs. please refrain from contacting other gc members.


plus, there was the great thread which listed all of the orgs and whether or not they did ai...and how rare it was, etc. that thread seemed to answer 80% of the questions most potential ais ask. maybe that should be re-done. i know it was deleted some time ago, but i never knew why.

That thread was deleted at the request of the original poster.

I would also like to add, that it was reposted by someone who had saved a copy onto her computer. She didn't know that the original poster took it down for a reason, and unknowingly reposted it -- opening up yet another can of worms.

At one point, it seemed like GreekChat was becoming a hot "market" for Alumnae Initiates.

If a woman is interested in AI, they can contact www.npcwomen.org themselves to find out which sororities offer AI.

or they could just as easily go to this thread

I think its seems such a "hot bed" is b/c GC is really the only "legitimate" fraternity/sorority messageboard on the 'net that is very active and represents more glos.

Of course if someone pm'd me about information, I wouldn't get all that upset.

I would calmly direct them to the I/NHQ webiste, its not all that big of a deal in my opinion. I would also go the route of SmartBlonde, if they asked me to sponsor them...that would be funny!

Personally, I don't think that how rare or common AI is should really be a topic of public discussion. I mean, people are, of course, free to make observations, but I don't think anyone should speak as to how common AI is for any particular organization.

Listing which organizations have AI is fine -- nobody would object to that. When you get more specific, though, there's a good chance that it could lead to problems. First, interested people should do their own research (and I think most of that should be done by researching organizations directly, not through a message board). Second, I don't think any of us want people coming to GC to try to figure out which organizations are "easier" to get into. Also, the information posted here isn't always correct.

I agree. Someone wanting to do research on AI should go to an official web site... like npcwomen.org or any of the NPC web sites-- not an online community. Going through formal channels, they can learn who does AI and what requirements or restrictions may exist.

Similiar to a PNM who should call the Office of Greek Life at her university for information specific to her school's recruitment. Anything in an online community is hearsay.

I think GC is a great way to connect with other Greeks and supporters of Greek Life, or to meet people with an interest in going greek, but it's not a manual for how to join a sorority as an undergraduate or as an alumna.

It's like going to Starbucks to find out how to save money on your car insurance. The person sipping a latte at the table across from you may feed you one idea, but the person next to her may have one that is entirely different: Call Geico Direct!

And I disagree! :)

This forum is a wonderful resource. People who've "been there, done that" can give very helpful advice. I know how much it helped me.

There was a time when everything stalled for me-- for more than a year! I had contacted everyone I could think to contact on the "official" level in my sorority, but nobody had answers. It took someone from this forum who knew the inner-workings to step in and find out where the ball had been dropped. She got things moving again for me. Had it not been for her, I still may be in PNM purgetory!

Telling someone to go right to the source-- doesn't really help in many cases. A lot of sororities don't even mention AI on their sites.

And.. what about the woman who went to college where there were no sororities or fraternities on campus, but now thinks she has something to give as an AI? How would she know where to start? You're all assuming she knows about NPC, all the names of the sororities, etc. This forum can be a good first step for women to learn the basics of what AI is and how to proceed.

If she doesn't live in an area where the Greek life is popular-- particularly if she's been out of college a long time.. it's difficult to find anyone who's Greek to talk to about it!

I'm always willing to help anyone who's interested. I know how difficult the process can be, and how many emotional ups and downs there are. I'm happy to lend a shoulder and an ear.

I too, like blueangel, am willing to help. If someone pm'd me and said that they didn't join in college because there weren't chapters on her campus or whatever. But she's all like my friends went ADPi, or I have family member who is an ADPi or I researched and I feel a connection with your philanthropy and what your beliefs are. I would help her. Not to say I'd be willing to sponser her or anything (because do that she'd have to be in my city I believe), but just give her information on who she would need to contact, just so she knows how to start.

Someone has actually asked me for information and I told her that AI is a long process, gave her contact information and told her to be patient because ADPi (right now) they want to find their own AI's, they don't want to be asked (if that makes sense). AI is changing in ADPi, as I'm sure it is in other chapters. It is a continous process.

But I think it is very important to emphasize that it is a long process. Especially if you are coming from the "outside" (I'll explain what I mean in a second), making inquiries and then waiting.

What I meant by outside is a person who doesn't know a sister in the particular sorority they are interested in.

I think it is just up to members of this subforum to really read the posts and if they think it is getting out of hand, either say something yourself, pm a moderator or pm someone in that sorority.

She can find the NPC website. GC is actually starting to turn me off from AI - just like undergraduate membership, it isn't for everyone - AND THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT.

Why would it turn you off? Its another resource of obtaining potentially great, life long members?

Most of the recent posters are almost half-way or more along or announced that they have finished the process.

There are very few here on the AI at the moment who are just starting out.

There are some who've been "limbo" a very long time or decided that they have other paths to follow at the moment.

The AI here represent a very, very small percentage of each of their glos.

And within that glo, some chapters are very open to it and some are not.

Just trust your org and your sisters to do the right thing for their AC and GLO.

Because people are sorority shopping and I don't like it. I also don't want some woman coming into Gamma Phi after 7 other sororities have rejected her. I think the idea of AI is absolutely wonderful and I am thrilled that my sorority offers it, but it makes me very sad to think that some women expect us to take them after they've been rejected elsewhere. They should want us for who we are and what we stand for, not because we're all they can get.

THANK YOU so much for saying that. I definitely could not have said it any better.

As I have stated before, Undergraduate "Rushing" is much different that AIing. That is a given.

greekchat is not a "Hotbed" of AIing by any means. It has shown some who for some reason or another did not Associate with any given GLO whether is be Fraternity or Sorority.

Yes, there are some that accept it more frequently than others, but it does happen doesnt it? Dont say No because of the many wonderful people of GC who have attained the AI status and are very active with Their GLOs.

As has been pointed out, the percentage of AIing is small in comparrison to the over all picture.

Granted, there have been a few a very few who seem to have become upset on AI, some on GC and if that is the case, that is to bad and sad.

If some are so dead set against it, then why keep checking and making comments on the AI Sub Forum and want to either do away with it or change MODs "MOD"?

If some dont like it, then do not check and post on it. By doing this, it is a slap in the face of those that have AIed and become very important Members of Their respective GLOs.

Yes, there was a list of GLOs that would AI and Those that would help, but some got so upset that it was asked to be removed and it was.

So, why not leave well enough alone as those that make a big deal out of it stir much more up than it is really worth.

If your GLO doesnt do AI, then jsut say so, dont carry it on like it is a life problem, it your GLO does AI, speak up and say so.

It seems that sometimes that those that do not AI much, (Notice Much) as opposed to those that do, really get out of joint, then just leave it alone.

Yours is not theirs is it?

I would love to list all of the AIs on GC who are Big Produtive Members of Their GLOs but I cannot remember all of them, but We know who they are!:cool:

Okay if someone is going to publically announce that she was dropped by 7 houses, yes you would be concerned but on the flip side unless I'm a member of those houses I don't know the reason for it.

When she was in college it could have been because of her GPA. Automatically at some schools on the first night of FR girls are dropped specifically b/c of GPA. So let's say she had a GPA of 3.4 but the cutoff is 3.5, so automatically she would be dropped.

I say this because it's not for us to hold it (being dropped from houses) against them. We don't know why these houses dropped them. And even if someone on GC happens to know this potentail AI, that person would only know the reason their house dropped them.

I'm sure there is always a part of us that is thinking "they are only interested in us because they couldn't get the other one". But the same thing goes with FR and those girls get the benefit of the doubt.

We need to do the same thing for the PNAM's.

I'd also like to point out that a lot of people change after college. I've only been out three years, but I'm definitely NOT the same person I was when I went through recruitment.

I agree with my sister. That last sentence says it all.

I was writing the same thing...you've said it some much better.

to add: they may be looking for a group to show devotion to and be the best sister they could possibly be, or they could have been dropped by all 25 groups and 1 picked them....It all depends on the culture of the AC and if the GLO on the national level is willing to say, go for it....who are "we" to say..no? She may just become the most dedicated member of that AC.

I understand the point of not wanting "letter-wearers", but I think that is a concern on both the collegiate level and the alumna level.

I am not targeting ANY group by any means....

but just because Alpha Psi Omega has 20 AIs (on a messageboard) doesn't mean that their standards are lower than Sigma Beta Delta. And if any person, within the org or a PNAM thinks that...they should be doing their own self-evaluation.

I will be honest and say that yes, when looking at websites and reading the missions statements/creeds/purpose. I felt a connection with each and every organization, because of the beauty of the statements. And a glimpse of each organization stood for…. Did that make me want to email ALL 26 GLOs? No. I had a list I believe of 6 GLOs that I was very interested and we know my story from there, why should I rehash it here.

I understand that most of us would like to plan for the worst case scenario and lets face it, it does happen, but not on average.

Maybe, just maybe, they are just searching to find a group to be with.

Shopping as an AI is not all bad even though some think it is so vile. Dont Undergrads Shop when in Rush?

They dont know. Giving advice is a heck of a lot better than giving a kick in the teeth or at least a bad taste against GLOs.

If they dont find or stick, then it is no skin off of anyones nose on this site is IT?

Maybe the 7 House Dropped Poster was so dropped for reasons that not a one of us know, then let it go!

She may just have aspiations, whether She makes it or not is a different story.

Let the Local AC handle it.

Thank you. To those who would say that this doesn't happen, it does.

hmmmm...
 

I think the difference between "maximizing the options" and "shopping" is HUGE! HUGE!

I've learned alot from my process, as short as it has been so far. Here are my thoughts...

There is a differnece between the woman who contacted four or five groups she felt a particular connection with, and contacting twenty. It's one thing if all four groups you contacted respond that they don't do AI, don't have an alumna chapter in your area, etc., and then to move on to more groups. But to contact 13 at once is a slap in the face to those who are already members and those who are still finding their way. Also, remember that just becuase the person doesn't openly post she's contacted 20 groups doesn't mean that she hasn't. I know of two different women who've contacted over ten at the same time.

I'm not a sorority member, but a PNAM. In my opinion, what's the point of contacting that many groups at once? Yes, the 26 NPC groups are all outstanding - that's why they've stood the test of time - but I would seriously question the woman who felt the need to contact over six or seven at the same time. And I'm not even a member. It is not true to the process, not true to your *future* org, and not true to yourself. Joining a sorority, in my opinion, is not just something you do on a whim. It is a huge commitment. In my opinion, those who join as AIs should be (in theory) more committed and wasn't just 'something they did in college' (this may be the sister I hope to be talking - not that anybody on GC is like this - obviosly you are all extremly commmitted to your respetive groups otehrwise you wouldn't even be on this website, but I do belive I have read a thread on here that only a quarter of women stay involved with their sorority after college) becuase they've gone they've already taken the initiative to go the non-traditional route.

Finally, I am a firm believer that you get out of the experience what you put in. Contacting over a certain amount of groups at the same time dillutes your experience. If that person still finds her AI home, she knows that she contacted 25 groups before the one that was hers. Just becuase your sisters don't know that's how you ended up a part of the organization does not make it any less of a reality, and that is something the AI needs to live with herself.

(please don't flame me if you disagree - of course I realize there are exceptions to everything I wrote above and nothing is set in stone!)

:)

Very well said.

And GC is just like any other aspect of life. Just because someone doesn't openly post how many orgs they contacted, doesn't mean we don't know...........or can "just tell".

And to those who say that the collegiates shop, well that's because WE force them to. We are the ones who tell them how recruitment works so all they can do is play along.

Exactly.

If my collegiate sisters have spoken, I will listen.

Some of you that are pursuing AI but have not been given an invitation to join as of yet:

Did you ever think if GC was hurting your chances? There are relatively few AIs out there, and your posts usually give a sufficient amount of detail about you that it would be easy to determine who you are if a person was familiar with those pursuing AI with their org.

There are national and international officers of many of the groups that actively AI on this board every day. There's many that just lurk and don't post, some who openly post, and some who post but you have no idea they're an NO or IO.

I'm not saying this has happened, because I'm not privy to that sort of info.

But just like in the recruitment threads, discretion is key, and many of you would be pretty easy to identify.

I've read the posts from the GCers who believe that "AI Shopping" isn't necessarily a bad thing -- especially since PNMs go "Sorority Shopping" when they go through Rush.

I do know that collegiate recruitment and pursuing AI are two very situations, so I'm not gonna even touch on that.

But....if we're going to draw similarities between the two pursuits, we've seen in past rushes how something posted on GC by a PNM actually hurt her bid day chances. I'm going to assume that the same can happen for a woman seeking AI.

This thread is starting to smack of "elitism." What is wrong with a woman who has been "cut hard" in college pursuing AI?

Are we now down to labeling people and branding them for life?
I find this attitude quite disturbing.

Did you know that Rachel Welch was bullied mercilessly in school because of her height? I remember her telling Johnny Carson that she was an outcast.

Think of the "outcasts" who end up founding software companies worth billions of dollars.

Remember too... sometimes the "in" group in school find themselves "out" later in life.

My perception of what I'm reading in this thread is "fear". It seems that there is fear about the "status" of AI.. as if this forum somehow "cheapens" AI or "cheapens" their sorority.

It doesn't. It simply provides a place where women who, for one reason or another, didn't join a sorority in college, and now wish to be of service to one later in life can find out information and share their journey.

I've never thought of AI as something that would lessen the value of my sorority.

However, I do see GC as an instrument that can lessen the value of the AI process.

When a sorority takes down its public info regarding AI off their website to review their AI policies, and when other sororities follow suit and attempt to clearly define to their members how to go about sponsoring someone for AI, then it's something to think about. I'm not saying that it was GC's fault, but for a while not too long ago -- the AI market was hot and on fire for GC PNAMs.

I'd hate for a PNAM to AI into AGD because she got an easy break from someone on GC. I'm not saying that it happens to everyone, but I know it has happened before.

Granted, I may not be the best one to answer this question since my AI pursuit has been kind of on the back burner for quite a while while I get other things in my life stabilized. I would hope not, though. I try not to post things here that I'd be embarrassed to be identified with, if that makes any sense. But that's my general rule for all the places I post. You never know who's out there.

OTW, you ain't never lied.

It all comes down to the motivation
 

Do I think posting on GC is hurting my chances with the AI process? I honestly don't know. I haven't thought of that before now. I haven't met or heard back from any groups yet. I've only been pursuing this since June, but if I haven't heard back from the few groups I contacted becuase of something I've said on here then that's too bad. I don't think I've said anything that isn't true, and I don't think I have the wrong motivation to want to pursue AI.

As for an AI having an 'easy break' becuase of a relationship she's made on GC...I don't know what to say to that. I can understand why making a friend on GC who's in the org a woman is interesting in can help her get her foot in the door that group, but I really don't think that would be the only reason why the woman was initiated. I am not sure if I am understanding exactly what you mean OTW, so I don't really know how to respond to that. For me, there is one woman on GC that I've spoken with about her organization. If that does help me with her group, than I think that's great. However, I do belive it is up to me to make a great impression upon this group if and when I meet with them. They are not going to initiate me becuase of a relationship I have with a person on GC. If nothing comes between me and the group of the woman I've been pming with on GC, that's fine too becuase I really like that woman, I've made a friend out of the situtation, and it obviously wasn't a 'fit' between me and that org.

I never went through recruitment, but, the woman who was cut hard from recruitment in college wanted to AI, she would have to look at her motivation for wanting to join as an AI just like anybody else would. If she came to the conclusion that her motivations for wanting to join as AI are grounded, than of course I see nothing wrong with that.

If you consider all the women who've come to greekchat with the wrong 'motivation' for joining as an AI (just for the letters, etc), how many of them have actually found a home? I've only been reading the board since January or something, posting since May or June, but I haven't read one successful AI story of somebody that turned out to be a trainwreck.

I find the fact that you have been a ZTA for about five minutes and yet you think you know everything there is to know about being in a sorority everywhere at any time disturbing. You have a lot to learn.

Perhaps I've hit a nerve, GP?

Um, no. You are experiencing NEWBIE MADNESS, or NEO MADNESS as the Divine 9 likes to call it. Think of it like religion: When you get baptized Catholic, it doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about the Church.

You have never participated in member selection from the side of an initiated member. You do not understand it. Maybe someday you will and your views will change, maybe they won't.

But until then, quit acting like you're Betty Quick. You know very little of the NPC compared to the women on this board who have been initiated and active members for 30 years.

Does one have to know everything about sororities in order to recognize the symptoms of "elitism?"

And, I do think I hit a nerve or you wouldn't have felt the need to strike back personally.

It isn't elitism. It's careful selection of membership. That is a hallmark of sororities. They are not designed to be all-inclusive. If that was the intention of our founders, why have a private ritual? Why go through a recruitment process? Take anyone, willy-nilly, or have an open ritual. The reason we don't do that is because not anyone can or should be able to join.

Advise at a collegiate recruitment next year. Maybe that will help you understand.

Oh for crying out loud in a bucket!

You are someone who had a previous connection to the sorority she initiated into, who pursued AI on her own for a long time with one group and did it because she felt in her heart it was something she really wanted, having no idea whether or not this was something other groups/people did. You're not a crazy nut shopping for any sorority that will take her. No one has ever said you are, but you're acting like they did.

As far as your anti-elitism and in-group comments, YOU MUST HAVE BEEN IN THE IN GROUP TO SOME POINT, OR YOU WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN A BID FROM A SORORITY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA.

I just don't understand why you are getting offended when the things being said have nothing whatsoever to do with your situation.