i am going to email my response!

Hello sisterfirends, I try to come on here as often as possible, and I was really surprised to see the bantering that was going on on this post.

I'm sure that we all can be ladylike and discuss any problems we have on our own. Therefore I deleted a few posts. Not because I felt any one person was right or wrong, but because I felt that this is a dispute better left among the two involved and you can e-mail each other privately, as sisterfriend AKA2D '91 said.
(I'm not looking at the post right now so if I mispelled your name, charge it to my head not to my heart)

I really enjoyed experessing myself in this post and I don't think that it was ment to cause turmoil between anyone, I just wanted to stopp things before they got out of hand.

If anyone has a problem or objection to what I have done, feel free to e-mail me at shennie_97@blackplanet.com


[This message has been edited by blu_theatrics (edited January 10, 2001).]

WOW!
Hello Ladies of SGRho, SFs and Gentlemen:

I have never been on this board before, but trust me, you finsta be seein' a lot mo' a me.

Anyways:

I feel that a lot of out situations are similar. I remember being told as a young girl that I sounded "white", etc.

I now have a son and everywhere I take him, I hear people say (literally) "Ooh, he talk educated." His Godmother (who is a teacher) chooses to call him ebonically challenged. I do correct his English becaus I believe that it is important for im to understand the way that he is "expected" to speak (i.e. in school/academic/professional settings). The "slang" (NOT ebonics) comes naturally and with time. I don't think it is something that is taught. I live in LA and a major issue was the teaching of ebonics in the Oakland school system.

The issue was actually educating the TEACHERS on ebonics so they could understand their students. WRONG! Teach the students how to communicate in the classroom. However, you can teach children all you want in the class, but when they go home, what's reinforced is what they will become comfortable with.

Also, understand that ebonics is not SLANG. Their Eyes Were Watching God is a good example. There are many numerous writings on this topic. I read one (I can't remember) and it was hard for me to really comprehend.

A lot of people think ebonics is saying things like "Oh, my bad." or " trippin' or dissin'" or things like that but it's not. Letters are excluded that we (being taught by what Europeans believe to be "proper" English) have grown accustomed to seeing. I had a class in undergrad (AFrican American theater)where we had to figure out words like "drysolongso" I hadn't a clue.

ALso, I have to agree with Original Ape in that the way we have been taught in this culture is NOT natural for African Americans. Despite the fact that we have been here for over 400 years and many of us have never and will never see Africa are linked to this natural heritage. Many African cultures and if you know African language you will see that many words do not end with consonants such as the letter "g". Therefore it IS natural for us (as African Americans (African being the key word)) to exclude this letter when speaking quickly. Hence the singin', dancin', eatin' etc.

And yes, we do write the way we speak.
How many times, on this board alone, have I seen someone write should of instead of should have (just an example).

I have seen people write (on this thread alone) "When I talk." or "I talk this way because." The "proper" word would be speak. When I speak...
We are all educated and we use incorrect English (even trying to be correct) all of the time. How about where are the shoes at? Never end a sentence with a proposition. I mean it goes on and on and on. This is not as obvious as "I's be fixin' to go to the sto'" but well, whatever.

It's deep. We are truly linked to our original heritage despite the fact that we have been taught in this society and have very little knowledge of our heritage.

Question:

I recently attended a research symposium where one of the topics was cultural competency. In the health field (and others) it is important to understand clients/patients to be most effective. He gave an example and I want to know who can figure this out.

A woman made a Dr.'s appt. and when the nurse called to remind her of the appointment, her response was "I ain't got the time." SO the nurse hung up. This happened like three or four more times until someone who was Black called, understood what she meant and etc., etc.

Who can tell me what the woman meant when she said "I ain't got the time?"




[This message has been edited by DELTABRAT (edited January 11, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DELTABRAT (edited January 11, 2001).]

I would assume that she meant "What time is the appointment?". But even if I thought she meant she didn't have time to come in for her appointment, I wouldn't have hung up on her. I would have at least tried to reschedule it for her.

------------------
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 11, 2001).]

Hello my sistas in Greekdom! And sisterfriends! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Ok, school me, Deltabrat!! I have never heard this one, before. I always thought that you could use the words speak and talk interchangably. That's not the case, huh? I'm telling you, you learn something new everyday. I was a Spanish major, so everytime I have a question about "proper" english, I translate what I'm trying to say into Spanish (is that not a mess??) and then back into English. Since I don't know how to speak improper Spanish (yet I speak "improper" English all day), I'm more sure that the translation back into English will be correct. And now that I think about it, there really isn't a translation for the word "talk," only for "speak" and "say," hablar y decir, respectively. Hmmmm.... makes you wonder. Anywho, Deltabrat, explain to me why you can't use these two words interchangably. Thanks!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

I didn't realize that talk and speak weren't interchangeable terms either. Please educate me. That's why I just love Greekchat. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 12, 2001).]

I feel exactly the same way about my son, but do you sometimes have people say that you are to hard on him for that, because I know his fathers side of the family does that to me.....but like I said earlier, they also ssay I talk white and they probably think I'm trying to make him to, I guess.

It's just the fact that I hate to see parents who allow there children to misspeak (is that a word?)

My biggest petpeeve is he/him and her/she
My niece constantly says things like "him not here" or "I want to talk to he" and she is two years older than my son and he even correts her know (which you know starts even more family troubles http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif). But I think the fact that a four year old can tell this six year old that you are speaking incorrectly should at least let he mother know to correct it. But that just my opinion.

I'm glad someone else feels the same way about educating our children to speak correctly though.

With all due respect to MIDWEST DIVA, and DELTABRAT, I still don't get this "write like you speak stuff."


It is literally a conscious effort for me to write to somebody and use the word "gonna", even thought I'm positive that I SAY it all the time, so I don't understand where you all are coming from with this.

Do you mean that if people don't use subject and verb agreement in their speech, they won't use it in their writing?

Maybe I'm tripping, but I don't get how you all can say that with so much conviction, when it seems so untrue to me.

Like I stated, I'm posting this with respect due, and I'm not trying to attack anybody's opinion, I'm just trying to understand. Word up!!! (ok, the last part was a joke).


Miss. Mocha

[This message has been edited by Miss. Mocha (edited January 18, 2001).]

i fully understand what is meant by writing how we speak. i have to speak on an elementary level because that is what i know best. my students write exactly how they would speak. for example:
i went home cause it was gonna rain.

now i know that as a teacher i have to correct this, but so many parents reinforce this writing style when they send their children to school with homework looking like this!!

sometimes if we are not told the correct way to speak, it will carry over in our writing.
i am not talking about slang. i am talking about common grammar mistakes.

Miss.Mocha,

I just wanted to give you something to think about. Why do you suppose some of the words in the following quote are capitalized? What significance does typing in all caps have to the reader? If this quote were being spoken instead of being read, would the capitalized words be spoken differently that the non- capitalized words? If so, how?

Let me know what you think.

------------------
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 18, 2001).]

Does my confusion lay in sematics????


Are you saying that the person is writing their post the way that they would say it in that moment in time? Because the example seems to imply that the writer was maybe less than pleased.

Like I would write.... "What do you mean???????" if I were totally confused about a post?

My take on the "write like you speak" comment was that you meant if a person uses colloqialisms (sp), then they write with them, too. Is this not what you're saying?

PS. Boo, you're losing me on the visual aids... SAY IT PLAIN, PLEASE.


Miss. Mocha

[This message has been edited by Miss. Mocha (edited January 19, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Miss. Mocha (edited January 19, 2001).]

opinion: a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by proof.

after having read the previous postings i conclude that some greek chat members feel an individual will write in the same manner as he or she speaks. other greek chat members do not share the same conviction. both are merely stating opinions that stem from their own personal experiences. it is therefore rude and trivial in my "opinion" to continue to tell someone else that they do indeed speak in the same manner as they write, when they have said that that is not the case. i often use slang and terminologies when i am speaking or writing to certain people that i would not use in a professional setting, it is called adaptation. in the same way it is also rude, immature and inconsiderate to continue using someone as your example when they have asked you politely not to do so. take care http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Yes, that's what I'm saying. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Less than pleased? You are so funny Miss.Mocha. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif




------------------
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost

NOW I GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I'm not yelling, I'm just happy)

I have to be honest with you, though. When I thought you were saying it the other, I found the idea totally insulting. I'm glad to know that there was just a simple break down in communication.

Miss. Mocha

I feel the need to restate this. I have no problem with receiving criticism on anything I post. However, I would appreciate it, if my posts are read in their entirety before doing so.

PositivelyAKA,

Asked me politely? Surely you jest. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I have already stated that writing is adapted to the reader (see above). On that point we share the same opinion. As for the rest of your post, we can simply agree to disagree. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Miss.Mocha,

I'm glad you understand what I was trying to say. To insult was never my intent. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif


------------------
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost



[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 19, 2001).]

food for thought
 

I was bored at work, so I thought I'd bump this to the top.

Poodles!

ttt

I've been told this my entire life. I'm bothered more by what it implies. It implies that Anglos are the only ones capable of enunciating and those who are using slang are speaking "BLACK" English. So ignorant.

My voice is also a bit annoying, but gosh darnit it's not "White.":mad:

This is an extremely interesting thread!


Serioussigma22:cool:

I haven't heard this in a while...
 

I guess it ranks up there with people who say that a person of color "speaks so well" because his or her nouns and verbs agree. Since I haven't heard this in a while, I hope that people's expectations are evolving to include correct English. Then again, it could be that no one speaks in such a manner anymore :)

Glad to know I'm not alone (hugs) ,lol

A few years back a friend called the house for my sister and asked her "who is that white lady who answered your phone??" :rolleyes:

Just the other day someone asked me where I was from, and I was kind of shocked. I do have a tendency to "create" my own words, but, damn bro, it's just called being creative. Doesn't mean I'm from out of state!:rolleyes:

Recycling this interesting thread...
 

Ok I had to recycle this thread because I have got some thing I want to add. Two year ago, part of my job assignment was to call clients. I was working for a nonprofit org then. When I first started I would speak using my regular tone of voice and I always use proper english. Well, in my regular tone of voice you can tell I am black (if that makes sense). After a few weeks it became apparent to me and to my boss that there was a connection between me sounding like a black person and my client list dropping. My boss and I came up with a plan for me to start speaking in a more "white" tone, so when using the "white" tone of voice people thought I was white and I would get more clients. The sad thing is that the plan actually worked. In this day and time, I should not have had to do that especially when I always use proper english. This nation has a looooong way to go before we can stop singing "we shall overcome".

Interesting, Soror can you explain more? What did you do differently?

Seriously.... What pointers did your boss give you to sound more "white"? I'm really sad that once you implemented the plan that the plan actually worked.

Hey soror, first I changed my name to a more "white" sounding name (now that would make for a good discussion about whether or not names can keep you from progressing in society) so I changed my name to Sarah. If any complaints came in about a Sarah the org knew it was me, although no complaints were ever made. In fact, there was one client who did call the org to lavish compliments on me :) . Next, I started speaking in a nice "white" southern lady accent. My boss choose southern because he said that people tend to trust southern people more. It worked like a charm. Sad, but true.

I have SO often been told by my black friends that I speak too proper or too "white." This has been going on since I was ten or so. As someone prior to me said, I had to learn to be bilingual.

I often tell my mother I speak job interview, standard English, Ebonics, and a little French. I've just learned that you have to speak to certain people, certain ways, in certain settings.

As far as behavior, I've been criticized quite often by my parents and peers. A specific example: My hair is down to my shoulder and I am accused on a daily basis of flipping my hair "like a white girl" with a head shake.

Socially: I went to a get together (or small party) hosted by a White girl where I was the only Black American present and when I got home my father said "Don't you have any Black friends?" Of course about a year later I went to a party hosted by a Black American. There were party crashers, and when my parents came to get me and saw the police there (no problem, just a precaution) they said "See this is why we don't let you go to things like this." Meaning parties hosted by my Black acquaintances. Where is the middle ground?

Furthermore, what is with the Black Community’s pre-occupation with identifiably or stereotypical "white/black" behavior? Why is it often considered wrong for a black person to not adhere to stereotypes?


*Sorry it's long. :o*

I too did that hence my user name, It's a combination of my first name (not "ghetto" but not usually found) and my middle name which is very common. When I'm on the phone and people hear my middle name combined with my "white sounding" voice, they assume I'm white.

When I got to high school I told everyone that I wanted to be called by my middle name instead of my first name. It's kind of silly and now I regret doing it. I'm just know realizing how great my first name and all the history behind it. I still like my middle name but I think I'll just keep my birth name in college. However shallow it may seem, I'm not sure yet.

I'm loving this topic, it really hits home!

I've got countless examples of "you sound like a white girl" "you talk like a white girl" or "WHY you talk like a white girl?" Funny how I never got accused of talking like that before middle school. My whole family talks like me, including my grandparents! They have different accents b/c they are from PA, but other than that it's the same. I never knew that my intonation was a problem. Funny how my father's friends ( my aunties and uncles who are all Nigerian) never noticed my "white" speech.

When I was younger being accused of "white speech" stung, but I tried to get over it by thinking that some people just dont know how to speak proper English or just don't choose to. When I got to college, I realized a lot of black people talk like me, and I learned more about myself in general. I don't let anyone simplify my blackness to my speech anymore. :cool:

I got this too, starting in middle school when I started at a school where there were more black students than at my elementary school. I was in the Gifted/Talented Program so I had friends of all races, but we all pretty much talked alike. Anyways, one day another black girl at the school came up to me and asked me if I was mixed. I'm like :confused: standing there trying to figure out where she was going with this question. I was like um...no. She's like your mom isn't white? Again, no. Finally she just came out with it and said, well why do you talk like that? In my 13 year old mind I'm like WTF? But I just walked away. Anyways being told that I was talking white or trying to act white really used to bother me. Now, after attending an HBCU where plenty of people "talk white" I just say that this is me and I'm not apologizing to anyone for speaking proper english.

WARNING: My opinion is a generalization, not an absolutely unwavering truth. I'm just sayin'....

This seems like a symptom of the "crabs in a barrel" mentality that has plagued Black people forever. It's as if someone says, "You're doing better than me in the language department because you are so "articulate". :mad: (Y'all know how "articulate" can go...) Well, I'm gonna find a way to level the playing field and take you down a peg or two." It's complete silliness for people to make people adhere to their insecurities, but that's what works for them.

The problem is that it only works because they never took the time to expose themselves to something besides what being Black is "supposed to be". Even if someone took time to introduce them to something outside of a stereotype, ie playing chess instead of PlayStation, they refused to be open to it. Therefore, if you're open to anything besides rap, fried chicken, or having an attitude 24/7, then you're obviously not black. :confused: That's some bullisht, and it drives me crazy.

I used to talk "proper" all the time as a kid, and grownups and kids had no problem pointing that out to me, a kid born and raised in Atlanta. There weren't a whole lot of other kids like me that paid attention in English class and could conjugate verbs correctly in conversation. So, at some point during HS, I started relaxing around my family members and being able to talk like them. I still retained my English skills. Then, I learned about the concept of being flexible: speak any way you desire on your personal time but be ready to switch back to your standard English when required/desired. (In my case, I make the call on that, not my boss.) It's an evil of our middle class-centered society values, but it's unfortunately a necessary evil. Thankfully, it won't really bother me in the end because I'm still true to who I am.

i witnessed a young black mother scream on her very well-spoken daughter at my old job, telling her to "stop sounding so g**-damn white when she spoke!"

she went on to say that she had tried EVERYTHING to fix this "problem" her child had. she had removed her from her mostly white elementary school, and placed her in the most ghetto school in our area. she constantly berated this child and told her "won't no chile o' hers gonna run 'round ackin white!"

lord knows i wanted to take her home with me and raise her with a family that would praise her english skills, and not shoot them down.

Soror, I couldn't agree more.

If I had a dollar for every time some person told me that I sound articulate, sound white, etc..I'd be living in Baldwin Hills (the "black" Beverly Hills)with a butler, 2 maids, and a EASY button.

LMAO @ the EASY button

It's one thing to speak in standard English and be "articulate". *still :mad: * It's an entirely different thing when you don't recognize our rich Black culture of the past and the present. It does bother me when there's young Black people that don't recognize that you can make all the money in the world, but you can and will still be stereotyped or pulled over "randomly" just for being black.

These are realities for some Black people. Nonetheless, having great grammar and diction is not synonymous with forgetting or not recognizing the struggle of being Black. Just like being a living stereotype does not make you the epitome of Blackness.

HIJACK!

This makes me think of that poor Black man on "Tyra" who was living out his greatest fantasy of being made up as a white man. He might be one of the exceptions on my theory because he just doesn't want to be Black. I hope he got therapy for that.)

/HIJACK!

I completely agree with you. It used to bother me when my friends would say "you gettin jus like dem white folks." I used to hate when they would say that and it would make me feel like that I was betraying my blackness somehow. Thank God I quickly got over that and learned that my blackness is NOT defined by how I speak.

Back to the hijack, when was this show? That's just as crazy as the woman who was on the show because she married an asian man because she did not want her children to "look black." How ridiculous :mad:! I hope she got some help too.

I borrowed that from Ziasha07:p