In the case of the French, not hard at all

I'm personally waiting to find out what if any connections are made to other terror groups in this attack... as in where did the bombers get their explosives? If the explosives were homemade/stolen locally then it is a lone cell... if the explosives are a little more comlpex then they had to come from somewhere, and this is what I'm interested - the connections between groups and their sources of support (material, monetary, and men).

So for example if they used semtex or some other military grade explosive, then it most likely was acquired from ETA or IRA stocks... the ETA may have provided explosives for finacial support (they are hurting with France and Spain nailing some long operating cells this year), or from the IRA (or its many off-shoots) "decommisioned" arms caches. On the positive side if it was military grade explosives the origin of the explosive will be easier to trace, as most explosives manufactured since the late 70s have chemical signatures left in the residue.

:rolleyes: France has a better conviction rate for terrorists than the US does... so what does that say?

TERRORISM ALERT IN FRANCE -- (AP, UPI) Yesterday, the French government announced that it has raised its terror alert level from RUN to HIDE. The only two higher levels of their terror alert are SURRENDER and COLLABORATE. The heightened alert was precipitated by the recent fire which destroyed the French White Flag factory, effectively disabling their military.

I love international relations theories based on drunken nights at some fratty bar. You all should submit your crackpot ideas to some journal of International Affairs.

--------------
Aside, this is terrible. I need to call my friends with families in England (who are all, for the most part, South Asian) to make sure they're okay.

I'm not a praying person, but you can bet that Londoners are in my heart tonight.

Given that quite a few of our terrorist captures are not declared and don't appear in that rate, perhaps that's not the best way of measuring?

-Rudey

They're all connected. I'm still amazed that nobody is able to stop the flow given how interconnected they have all become.

-Rudey

Wouldn't be surprised if the explosives used in the bombings were Semtex plastic explosives; easily shaped and relatively benign until a blasting cap is placed in it. (The U.S. equivalent is Composition C-4.)

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4_explosive

Well if it's Semtex/C4 then the explosives most likely came from the IRA weapons caches... which means the explosives originated in either Libya (no bomb markers) or the US (will have explosive markers) - agian it will narrow down the search for the support/logistics network for the bombers.

And you know this for a fact right:rolleyes: ? The French have been dealing with terrorism on their own soil for a long time, so before you go making unintelligent statements you might want to deal with reality. Right before I went to live there, there was a bombing in the subway that killed quite a few people, and it was radical muslims that did it.

Just because they didn't agree with our policy on Iraq doesn't mean they don't give a crap about terrorism.:rolleyes:

Get a clue people.

I live 5-6 blocks from where the bomb went off in Oklahoma City in '95. I heard the bomb, knew plenty of people that were hurt or killed. My father was in the county court house and had the windows shatter in upon them. We all assumed Islamic terrorists then as well. I think that it's jumping to conclusions to say that whoever did this wanted to make a statement about Britain's attack on fundamentalist followers of Islam.

Give the British authorities the time to conduct an investigation before assuming you know more than they do.

It says absolutely nothing. Two completely different judicial systems.

Well the stiff upper-lip is still in full force... shades of the Blitz almost.

Watching the CBC coverage of the event a reporter that was actually woken by the explosions occuring a couple of buildings down the street... the images of Brits calmly evactuating, while business continued as usual in the background was interesting to say the least...

The most striking segment was when the reporter walked up some businessmen having some pints by Kings Cross watching the emergency workers down the street - they were asked what they think... their reply was (I'm paraphrasing because I have'nt found a transcript yet): "Why should we let it bother us? It may be an inconvience <laughter> but we won't let it get to us. After all we grew up during the 80s when terror bombings were common, so what's new about this? In fact if this is the worst they can do then maybe Cheney's actually right <laughter>. Besides we have a tradition to live up to, you know the stiff upper-lip and all. Finally if my grandmother was tough enough to survive the Blitz, then we can deal with this."

That's exactly the attitude one needs to defeat the terrorists. Much unlike Spain, which promptly raised a white flag and threw out their elected officials after getting terror-bombed.

José María Aznar blaming ETA for the Madrid bombing had nothing to do with him being voted out?

See that's what I thought as well... public believing they were mislead about Iraq; and then following Madrid attack Aznar sticking to the ETA attack claims in the face of all the evidence to the contrary only decreased his support.

Besides Spain hasn't withdrawn from the War on Terror (despite Fox's claims :rolleyes: ) - they withdrew from Iraq yes, but not Afghanistan... in fact they doubled their troop commitment to Afhganistan before withdrawing from Iraq.

Kings Cross Station,

that was the tube that I used daily to make hook ups with other lines:(

Scarry to think about it!:eek:

The guy who used to produce the 11 PM News that I directed in Detroit is now Executive Producer of CNBC, Europe -- based in London. We had dinner when we were there a few weeks ago.

At least one of the blasts was within a few blocks of their bureau.

I sent him an email and got one back saying he was taking a short break, but was out on the street covering the story.

He lives close to Kings Cross, but thankfully walks to work.

Following this bombing in London, I have to say that the cycnic in me is now waiting for the other shoe to drop as they say...

Of the six "Crusader Nations" (United States of America, Canada, Australia, France, Germany and Great Britain) named by Osama Bin Laden only Canada hasn't seen reprisals against civlian targets or been the target of a terror attack from Al Queda (or its affiliates).

NBC was showing video clips from a jihad-related website glorifying the attacks. They claimed it was payback for the crusades, which has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. They didnt claim it was for US Military presence in Saudi Arabia, they didnt claim it was from the invasion of Iraq or Afghanastan. They claimed it was because of the crusades. I've known some bitches who could hold a grudge, but 1,000 years is some insane isht.

Uh, the current US policy in Iraq and the War on Terror have been repeatedly called/viewed as a crusade by Christians against Mulsims by the extremists (of course Bush using the term crusade back in '01 didn't help) - perhaps this is what they are refering to, perhaps trying to link past and present in an effort to market their message more effectively to the fringe and those ignorant?

Having the degree in political science, I understand that.

That is not however, how it was presented on the NBC newscast. I was just repeating what was said on NBC.

So one of several things is possible:

1) The claim of responsibility just said it was due to the crusades.
2) NBC stated it that way - which they did.
3) The claim of responsability really said it was due to the Iraqi / Afghanastani actions and that was the crusade they were refereing to.
4) NBC messed up.

What a news program messing up in the race to report something new on a breaking story.... naaaaaaah:rolleyes:

Anyone else pretty impressed by the speed in which the London Police/Scotland Yard moved on this case?

All the cameras help, but still they're taking pictures of thousands of people.

We arent? :(

In spite of what Law Enforcement says is it really so?:o

Oh, if they caught these ass wholes who did it more power.:)

Should We actually Care, Yes. but use it wisely, PLEASE!:rolleyes:

To Be so used and watched.:confused:

No question that we're using cameras, too. According to the newscasts in New York City, though, there are about 400 plus around this city. Didn't I hear that there are 4000 in London?

Incidents going on in London. There are reports of shooting and nail bombs. Still not clear what exactly is going on yet.

I just got a letter yesterday from my friends in England - the one's daughter was to be in London on 7/7, but her train broke down just outside of London! Now this, at the Victoria Station. I'm very proud of how the British are handling this, but in my book
Terrorists Are Nothing But Sneaky Cowards!!!!

Okay, the stations shut down are the Oval, Shepherd's Bush, and Warren Street. One of these stations is quite close to the hospital where the victims from 2 weeks ago are. There may have been one arrest - it's unconfirmed - and there are reports of people being seen with "black bags".

There's something very strange about the lack of detail in this story.

It'll be interesting to see what is actually happening.

Well finally after all this, is Britain willing to stop providing sanctuary to terror suspects. Maybe next they'll be willing to move in to stop the hate sermons at their mosques and remove the terror promoting mayor of London.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/in...bombings.html?

July 21, 2005
Britain and Jordan Agree on Expulsion of Terror Suspects
By ALAN COWELL
LONDON, July 20 - Britain struck a preliminary agreement with Jordan on Wednesday that may lead to the expulsion of a suspected close ally of Osama bin Laden, the first in a series of measures aimed at curtailing the activities of militant clerics.

The new policy could take months to carry out in the face of expected court challenges. Abu Qatada, the cleric most likely to be affected, is a Palestinian citizen of Jordan. In court documents he has been called a "right-hand man" in Europe of Mr. bin Laden and a spiritual guide for Al Qaeda.

The agreement, expected to be followed by similar arrangements with other countries, is the latest sign that - belatedly in the eyes of its critics - Britain is cranking up antiterrorist procedures, moving away from a longstanding policy of offering sanctuary to Muslim radicals who might face torture or the death penalty in their own countries.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke said he had authorized the compilation of a global list of suspects likely to be expelled from or barred entry to Britain if they were found to be "preaching, running a Web site or writing articles which are intended to foment or provoke terrorism."

Almost two weeks after the bombings on July 7 that killed 56 people, Britain still seems to be in a state of shock as it grasps for ways to explain why four British Muslims rode into London aboard a commuter train with backpacks of explosives that detonated on three subway trains and a double-decker bus.

Ken Livingstone, the normally loquacious mayor of London, who earned considerable respect after the bombings for his restrained response, said in a BBC interview on Wednesday that the blame lay with "80 years of Western intervention into predominantly Arab lands because of the Western need for oil."

Asked if he denounced the London bombers, he said he also denounced "those governments which use indiscriminate slaughter to advance their foreign policy, as we have occasionally seen with the Israeli government bombing areas from which a terrorist group will have come, irrespective of the casualties it inflicts, women, children and men."

"Under foreign occupation and denied the right to vote, denied the right to run your own affairs, often denied the right to work for three generations," he said, "I suspect that if it had happened here in England we would have produced a lot of suicide bombers ourselves."

Prime Minister Tony Blair defended the British intelligence and law enforcement officials who less than a month before the attacks concluded that "at present there is not a group with both the current intent and the capability to attack the U.K.," according to a confidential terror assessment.

"I'm satisfied that they do everything that is possible to protect our country," Mr. Blair said Wednesday in Parliament.

The security report was sent to British government agencies, foreign governments and corporations in mid-June and prompted the British government to lower its formal threat assessment by one level.

But just weeks earlier, the country's ranking police officer, Sir Ian Blair, the head of Scotland Yard, offered a less optimistic assessment, saying a "credible threat" existed.

"The intelligence report that I see, and my colleagues and security services see, tells us that there is a credible threat," Sir Ian said in an interview with Ahmed Versi, editor of The Muslim News, a monthly. "There is a clear evidence of people reconnoitering, moving money around. There's a lot of stuff on e-mail and the Internet."

"I suppose I'd rather be accused of saying there's too much of a threat than appearing to be complacent," he said, according to a transcript of the interview. "We don't do the American stuff of raising instant warnings."

Mr. Versi said Wednesday that the interview was conducted on May 20 but was published in the June 24 issue of The Muslim News - two weeks before the London bombings.

A spokeswoman for Scotland Yard, who spoke in return for anonymity under police procedures, said the remarks reflected Sir Ian's assessment of the situation at the time he gave the interview. Neither in the interview nor subsequently has he said he had foreknowledge of the July 7 attacks, which the authorities have said came without warning.

The measures against what the police here call "preachers of hate" follow years of warnings from foreign intelligence services that British tolerance of radical clerics and terror suspects wanted in other places had turned London into "Londonistan" or "Beirut-on-Thames."

In Parliament on Wednesday, Mr. Clarke, the home secretary, said the government would introduce new measures to deny entry to those who advocated, supported or were in any way involved in terrorism.

"In the circumstances we now face," he said, "I've decided that it's right to broaden the use of these powers to deal with those who foment terrorism or seek to provoke others to terrorist acts. To this end I intend to draw up a list of unacceptable behaviors which would fall within this."

At the same time, Prime Minister Blair's office said Britain had reached an agreement in principle with Jordan that would allow Britain to deport Jordanians like Mr. Qatada without fear that they would be mistreated. Britain is bound by international convention not to deport people to countries where they risk inhuman or degrading treatment. It also says it does not return deportees to countries where they might face the death penalty.

In Parliament, Mr. Blair said he might call an international conference on radical Islam "to try to take concerted action right across the world to try to root out this kind of extremist teaching."

Mr. Qatada, who was sentenced to life imprisonment in Jordan in 1999, is one of several outspoken clerics. Another is the Egyptian-born Abu Hamza al-Masri, who is in detention facing extradition hearings instituted by the United States.

A third, Sheik Omar Bakri Mohamed, born in Syria, broke his silence Tuesday on the bombings to blame British voters and mainstream British Muslims for them. He has long been associated with the radical group Al Muhajiroun.

Anjem Choudary, a British-born figure also linked to Al Muhajiroun, declined to condemn the bombings and said in a BBC radio interview that there was a "very real possibility" of another attack.

"The real terrorists," he said, "are the British regime and even the British police, who have tried to divide the Muslim community into moderates and extremists, whereas this classification does not exist in Islam." The Daily Telegraph devoted part of its front page on Wednesday to photographs of three people - "The men who blame Britain," was the headline - with images of Sheik Mohamed, Mr. Choudary and Mr. Livingstone.

-Rudey

And this morning...

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Police in London are reported to have shot a man dead at a subway station, a day after bombers apparently failed to repeat the carnage of the July 7 blasts.

Unconfirmed media reports said the man shot at Stockwell station -- close to the Oval, one of four sites targeted by suspected bombers on Thursday -- was a suicide bomber.

One witness, Mark Whitby told the BBC on Friday the man appeared not to be carrying anything but was wearing a thick coat that looked padded.

Whitby said an Asian man was shot five times at close range after he had jumped on a train "They pushed him onto the floor and unloaded five shots into him. He's dead," witness Mark Whitby told the BBC. "He looked like a cornered fox. He looked petrified."

(from CNN)

I feel for the people in London. It's got to be terrifying to get on a subway or bus there now.

Dee

This video clip is taken from ITN news and features an interview with Peter Power, managing director of Visor Consultants, who were running an exercise for an unnamed company that revolved around the London Underground being bombed at the exact same times and locations as happened in real life on the morning of July 7th.

Click Here

http://prisonplanet.com/Pages/Jul05/...exercises.html

htm[/url]

I have never said that the government "was out to get us." a retraction would be nice although not expected.

Instead of criticism for spreading the info I share, I would rather have criticism of the content itslelf (check out the documentation and links). Oh.. and by the way everything I state is just pointing out what is covered by mainstream media (and then is quickly forgotten). So its "not what I think", its what the evidence shows. I'm just not content in letting others do my critical thinking for me... and, I love to encourage others to do the same.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. It doesn't make sense to stop using the transportation system. People need to continue living their lives, and should not let terrorists hinder that (otherwise, youd be sending the message that the terrorists won). Now, the government doing something more about transportation security is a different story!

Well then, why did you edit your post? I have no idea of what you said, but if you stand by your statement then why did you delete it out?